Government pledges money for improved Lincoln-Nottingham service

[evergreenadam]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-29391904

A project to improve "one of the worst train services in the UK" has been given the go-ahead.


Journey times between Lincoln and Nottingham are currently slower than they were 100 years ago, according to campaign group Rail Fair.


In a letter from Secretary of State Patrick McLoughlin, funding for three years has been confirmed by the Department for Transport.


It is hoped the improved service will start running in May 2015.

Not sure what impact this will have on the timetable or if extra trains are required and where they will come from!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Most important detail from the above:

Planned improvements

An extra 12 trains a day between Newark and Nottingham
Journey times cut by 10 minutes on Nottingham to Lincoln services
An additional 11 daily stops at Hykeham
Extra peak hour service from Lincoln to Nottingham
Fastest journey time between Nottingham and Lincoln cut to 47 minutes

To commence from May 2015. I'm intrigued by the extra Newark trains - an extension to a Matlock or Robin Hoodie line service? I presume this will also allow most Lincoln services to run fast west of Newark, thereby obtaining reasonable time savings.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit that I won't miss having to stop at the 7 stops between Newark and Nottingham. Hopefully some non-stop services between Newark and Nottingham again.

Hoping to see some other improvements in the county as well, Grimsby - Lincoln is still dire with no chance of improvement. Peterborough - Lincoln - Doncaster will hopefully also get a recast once the upgrade work is completed.

But the running down of the Lincoln - Nottingham service is very noticeable.

From the late 80's the services used to be hourly Lincoln - Birmingham with alternate hours stopping all stations and fast (Newark Castle only) and good connections to Grimsby.
About 1991 when the 158s were introduced they diverted the service from Birmingham - Coventry via Leicester. Never sure why, it may be because they didn't want to use the 158s to Lincoln but to me this was the start of the decline for the line.
The route was then changed back to Birmingham but via Leicester.
Good times hit the mid 90s with a bit of a weird services under CT.
Basically Grimsby - Lincoln - Newark Northgate (and Castle) - Nottingham - Leicester - Birmingham - Shrewsbury - Chester (alternate hours)
Lincoln - Newark Castle - Nottinhgam - Leiecester - Birmingham - Shrewsbury - Central Wales.
Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Beyond (Cardiff and Hereford)

Grimsby - Nottingham was very slow, you could get off the train at Northgate and comfortably beat it to Newark Castle walking during the reversal if you were board but Lincoln - Nottingham was half-hourly most of the day.

The SRA cut that to save pressure on the flat crossing, sadly it was the route via Leicester that remained.

When Central was split up sadly the service was cut at Leicester again to keep the franchise simple (Not to make the service more reliable as stated at the time)

I suspect if BR had kept the service as Lincoln - Newark - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Cardiff (with a shuttle between Newark and Nottingham) and the service had ended up in the Cross Country franchise it would be much better than it is today. Once it was service was diverted to Coventry and away from the express network Lincoln seemed to be left on a limb every since.

Hopefully this is the revival, although trains before 1500 on a Sunday would be wonderful

 

[edwin_m]

I'm assuming most of the Leicester-Lincolns will be non-stop between Nottingham and Newark then call at Hykeham and probably other places too. Someone suggested on here that the Matlock-Nottingham will extend to Newark picking up the stops in between.

This would need one more unit in service to extend the Matlock services. Unless they can save one from the faster Leicester-Lincolns they will have to find another one from somewhere. Perhaps step up the units that detach from the Liverpools so they return to Liverpool 15-20min later instead of an hour after that as now?

 

[LowLevel]

There is theoretically a spare 153 during the day. It is theoretical as it's usually been pinched. There might be a plan to source a unit from elsewhere to help though I can't really go into specifics !

 

[Class 170101]

anything about Sunday services in that statement / letter?

 

[Failed Unit]

No - but how many signal boxes would need to be opened between Newark Castle and Nottingham to make it happen? I am not sure if that will be dead in the water until that line is re-signalled. (It was suggested once to do Lincoln - Newark - Grantham - Nottingham but I don't know if that was ever a serious suggestion)

The Sunday service to Lincoln is unusable at the moment, even on the bit to Newark that is open I often drive to avoid long waits.

 

[Qwerty133]

There is theoretically a spare 153 during the day. It is theoretical as it's usually been pinched. There might be a plan to source a unit from elsewhere to help though I can't really go into specifics !

Theoretical, is definitely the key word, as more often than not, not only is that used, at least one 2x153 diagram is split at sometime during the day.
A 158 from SWT would probably be the best way forward, and could be sourced by stopping the sub-hire to FGW. It also wouldn't need repainting as is already in stagecoach livery, and SWT may agree as it's staying within stagecoach.

Other options would be:
153 from LM- may be possible if anything can go electric, when the 350/3s arrive, but from memory can't think of anything.
153/6/8 from Northern- No chance, Northern have been promised there not losing anything without it being replaced
153/6 from GA- although I think the situation is better than a few months ago, they often have a shortage, requiring use of a short loco hauled set.
156/8 from Scotrail- Unless they want to give one up not going to happen.
153/8 from ATW- 153 may be possible (not sure how tight there diagrams are), 158 services often covered by 150s so unlikely.
153/8 from FGW- would be illogical if sub-hire from SWT continues, however this is the rail industry so possible.

 

[evergreenadam]

More news on East Midlands Trains website:

The key improvements to be introduced from May 2015 are:

• Additional 24 trains every weekday between Newark and Nottingham

• Faster journey times on 16 Nottingham-Lincoln services

• 11 additional daily stops at Hykeham

• Extra morning and evening peak train between Lincoln and Nottingham

• Extending the Matlock-Nottingham services to Newark Castle, providing 13 additional trains per day from Nottingham to Newark Castle

• Providing additional calls at all of the intermediate stations between Nottingham and Newark Castle

- See more at:
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk...ham-to-Lincoln-service-improvement-announced/

 

[Failed Unit]

Including Thurgarton? Considering how many passengers use that station it has an amazing service!

 

[Lincoln]

24 extra trains between Nottingham and Newark, yet 13 additional ones in the reverse direction?

I think numbers have been muddled

 

[berneyarms]

"Between" generally means the total number in both directions.

"From" and "to" generally means in one direction only.

 

[Lincoln]

"Between" generally means the total number in both directions.

"From" and "to" generally means in one direction only.

Thanks for explaining the press release as I clearly couldn't understand what the authors meaning was.

Note the smiley at the end of the post... it was meant as tongue in cheek :roll:

 

[berneyarms]

Thanks for explaining the press release as I clearly couldn't understand what the authors meaning was.

Note the smiley at the end of the post... it was meant as tongue in cheek :roll:

You'd be surprised how many people make that mistake, so I felt it worthwhile posting it!

 

[nuneatonmark]

I must admit that I won't miss having to stop at the 7 stops between Newark and Nottingham. Hopefully some non-stop services between Newark and Nottingham again.

Hoping to see some other improvements in the county as well, Grimsby - Lincoln is still dire with no chance of improvement. Peterborough - Lincoln - Doncaster will hopefully also get a recast once the upgrade work is completed.

But the running down of the Lincoln - Nottingham service is very noticeable.

From the late 80's the services used to be hourly Lincoln - Birmingham with alternate hours stopping all stations and fast (Newark Castle only) and good connections to Grimsby.
About 1991 when the 158s were introduced they diverted the service from Birmingham - Coventry via Leicester. Never sure why, it may be because they didn't want to use the 158s to Lincoln but to me this was the start of the decline for the line.
The route was then changed back to Birmingham but via Leicester.
Good times hit the mid 90s with a bit of a weird services under CT.
Basically Grimsby - Lincoln - Newark Northgate (and Castle) - Nottingham - Leicester - Birmingham - Shrewsbury - Chester (alternate hours)
Lincoln - Newark Castle - Nottinhgam - Leiecester - Birmingham - Shrewsbury - Central Wales.
Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Beyond (Cardiff and Hereford)

Grimsby - Nottingham was very slow, you could get off the train at Northgate and comfortably beat it to Newark Castle walking during the reversal if you were board but Lincoln - Nottingham was half-hourly most of the day.

The SRA cut that to save pressure on the flat crossing, sadly it was the route via Leicester that remained.

When Central was split up sadly the service was cut at Leicester again to keep the franchise simple (Not to make the service more reliable as stated at the time)

I suspect if BR had kept the service as Lincoln - Newark - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Cardiff (with a shuttle between Newark and Nottingham) and the service had ended up in the Cross Country franchise it would be much better than it is today. Once it was service was diverted to Coventry and away from the express network Lincoln seemed to be left on a limb every since.

Hopefully this is the revival, although trains before 1500 on a Sunday would be wonderful

The Coventry to Nottingham/Lincoln service was withdrawn due to the West Coast upgrade making flat crossings across the WCML at Nuneaton pretty impossible where the trains reversed on platform 1 or 2. It was a big shame, they were very well used trains and offered an extra service for Hinckley to Leicester too as well as through journeys and lots of connections. Pity they couldn't restore the old underpass between the Coventry and Leicester lines. It would still mean a reversal but no fouling of the main line. The only alternative would be to go through Nuneaton 1 or 2 and reverse onto the new freight chord north of Nuneaton and stop at platforms 6 or 7. Very messy.

 

[northwichcat]

Theoretical, is definitely the key word, as more often than not, not only is that used, at least one 2x153 diagram is split at sometime during the day.
A 158 from SWT would probably be the best way forward, and could be sourced by stopping the sub-hire to FGW. It also wouldn't need repainting as is already in stagecoach livery, and SWT may agree as it's staying within stagecoach.

Other options would be:
153 from LM- may be possible if anything can go electric, when the 350/3s arrive, but from memory can't think of anything.
153/6/8 from Northern- No chance, Northern have been promised there not losing anything without it being replaced
153/6 from GA- although I think the situation is better than a few months ago, they often have a shortage, requiring use of a short loco hauled set.
156/8 from Scotrail- Unless they want to give one up not going to happen.
153/8 from ATW- 153 may be possible (not sure how tight there diagrams are), 158 services often covered by 150s so unlikely.
153/8 from FGW- would be illogical if sub-hire from SWT continues, however this is the rail industry so possible.

Also remember the 9 x 170s with TPE need replacing and that Govia Thameslink have a franchise commitment to lengthen Uckfield trains.

 

[Class 170101]

The only alternative would be to go through Nuneaton 1 or 2 and reverse onto the new freight chord north of Nuneaton and stop at platforms 6 or 7. Very messy.

Would be no different to what EMT do today. Some of their services serve both Newark Castle and Newark Northgate and reverse at Newark Flat Crossing East Jn.

 

[Lincoln]

Draft timetable attached that has been published on East Midlands Trains website.

http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/Global/Documents/timetable%20-%20Notts%20-%20New%20-%20Linc.pdf

The draft certainly looks good!

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

If Newark crossing reduces capacity why not run the Midland mainline from Nottingham to Newark, Lincoln and Grimsby every 2 hours instead of Newark to Grimsby and Leicester to Lincoln routes. That will speed up journeys reduce drivers needed as that will run to Leicester aswell. And it will stop the cronic overcrowding between Newark and Grimsby.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I don't quite follow - are you saying extend services from London via the MML to Lincoln and Grimsby?

 

[ashworth]

The proposed new timetable for the Nottingham to Lincoln line will for most passengers be enthusiastically welcomed. There are great improvements with faster journey times between Nottingham and Lincoln, almost double the frequency between Nottingham and Newark and the smaller villages between Nottingham and Newark getting a much improved service. I hope this will see an increase in the number of people using stations like Thurgarton, Bleasby, Fiskerton and Rolleston.

There is one station on the line, and unfortunately the one I use the most and perhaps the most used between Nottingham and Newark, that will see a significant downgrading of their rail service if the new timetable is adopted without amendments. Lowdham will lose its hourly service throughout the day to and from Lincoln. Currently most trains including the faster ones between Nottingham and Lincoln call at Lowdham but from the new timetable it will only be served by the services which terminate at Newark.

I wonder if the the passengers who currently use the train between Lowdham and Lincoln have realised this yet! They think that their service is to be improved! Lowdham is much larger than all of the other communities along that section of the line and has good road access to many large communities to the north and east of Nottingham. I know that many people from a wide area use Lowdham to travel to Lincoln rather than having to travel into Nottingham to get the train. I have used Lowdham station for many years to travel to Lincoln but I'm afraid it will now be the car for me because for a short journey like that I do not want a change of train with a half hour wait at Newark.

The whole idea is to cut journey times between Nottingham and Lincoln but they are going to be stopped at Collingham and Hykeham and so why cant they also make just one stop between Nottingham and Newark?

 

[Tomnick]

If Newark crossing reduces capacity why not run the Midland mainline from Nottingham to Newark, Lincoln and Grimsby every 2 hours instead of Newark to Grimsby and Leicester to Lincoln routes. That will speed up journeys reduce drivers needed as that will run to Leicester aswell. And it will stop the cronic overcrowding between Newark and Grimsby.

If I've understood you correctly - what about Barrow, Sileby and Syston (which aren't served by London trains), what about connections at Newark into the (much faster) services to Kings Cross and what about the extra 'mainline' stock that'd be required to mostly carry fresh air north of Nottingham?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Semi-related question - are ex-CT and ex-MML drivers / guards still separate pools at Nottingham? If so wouldn't you then need either one of them to learn route or traction for the relevant extension?

 

[High Dyke]

I must admit that I won't miss having to stop at the 7 stops between Newark and Nottingham. Hopefully some non-stop services between Newark and Nottingham again.

Hopefully this is the revival, although trains before 1500 on a Sunday would be wonderful

You're not the only one.

Once the signalboxes along the route are closed and control passed to the EMCC at Derby then there's no reason from the Network Rail point of view why services can't run earlier in the day. Swinderby is already open on a Sunday morning.

No - but how many signal boxes would need to be opened between Newark Castle and Nottingham to make it happen? I am not sure if that will be dead in the water until that line is re-signalled...

Four signalboxes and two crossing boxes required to be open, at present. After November 2015 the resignalling should be alleviate that need. More job losses. :cry:

 

[Tomnick]

Semi-related question - are ex-CT and ex-MML drivers / guards still separate pools at Nottingham? If so wouldn't you then need either one of them to learn route or traction for the relevant extension?

For the drivers at least, there's a mainline link at Derby (no mainline drivers at Notts) that signs Lincoln, for the two workings there and back each day. I don't think that makes the proposal much more practical though!

 

[Qwerty133]

For the drivers at least, there's a mainline link at Derby (no mainline drivers at Notts) that signs Lincoln, for the two workings there and back each day. I don't think that makes the proposal much more practical though!

There's also HST trained Senior Conductors at Nottingham, again doesn't make proposal practicle.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

If I've understood you correctly - what about Barrow, Sileby and Syston (which aren't served by London trains), what about connections at Newark into the (much faster) services to Kings Cross and what about the extra 'mainline' stock that'd be required to mostly carry fresh air north of Nottingham?

After the MML is extended the local Leicester to Loughborough Ivanhoe line can run as it did when Syston re-opened. For Newark Northgate there is a hourly East Coast train ending there which should be extended to Lincoln. The extra stock already exists and runs the Skegness and Scarborough extensions. I doubt it will be less used than the Corby MML extension as rail travel is packed here.

 

[Tomnick]

Is there enough slack in the mainline fleet to cover an extra two, maybe three, diagrams - especially during the weekday peaks, when the overcrowding is surely at its worst? Skegness and Scarborough HST or 222 services don't run on weekdays, so aren't relevant. I doubt that binning the last leg of the Corby services would save a unit either, and they're well used south of Kettering. I'm not sure what you'd do about the Lincoln service on the other hour either - might be too tight to run the remnant with just one unit, so there'd not be much to be saved anyway - the reason why they were combined with the Leicesters in the first place, wasn't it...?

 

[Searle]

If I've understood you correctly - what about Barrow, Sileby and Syston (which aren't served by London trains), what about connections at Newark into the (much faster) services to Kings Cross and what about the extra 'mainline' stock that'd be required to mostly carry fresh air north of Nottingham?

After the MML is extended the local Leicester to Loughborough Ivanhoe line can run as it did when Syston re-opened. For Newark Northgate there is a hourly East Coast train ending there which should be extended to Lincoln. The extra stock already exists and runs the Skegness and Scarborough extensions. I doubt it will be less used than the Corby MML extension as rail travel is packed here.

The East Coast service you mention only has one per two hours terminate at Newark, the other continues up to York. It's not very feasible at all to extend the Newark terminator up to Lincoln in the day, the whole train can't fit in one platform, and would block off the whole of the throat for the turnaround.

Just about to look through the timetable myself, my main hope is for more Newark Northgate terminators from Lincoln!

 

[TheBigD]

How are these additional services going to be resourced???

I accept that during the winter there is a bit of spare capacity in the EMT fleet (even though there's been a few short formed local services this week) but during the summer most of the Skegness services are strengthened to 3 or 4 cars and availability is tight...

Can we expect more services to be single 153's once again???