First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

ATM I find there is not enough legroom on E300s or E200s but I don't know what the new versions will be like. No problem on E400s though.

Dave

Problem with e300s is the length of wheelbase - they've enough problems with the Eclipses at HE. However, don't know if we'll see e300s coming. None on this year's order and it looks like Streetlite Max are the preferred option rather than e300.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I think you're being a bit pessimistic. Firstly, even in the days of standardisation, there was always variety. Go back to 1984 when the NBC held sway in Bristol. You had the last Lodekkas, VRs of three Marquez plus single and dual door. Plus REs of flat and BET windscreens, a few last LHs, Mk1 and 2 Nationals. Then Leopard and Tiger coaches plus all sorts of oddballs that I'm sure I've forgotten. It was ever thus

I'm not being pessimistic but in terms of newer vehicles I'm worried that Streetlites will litter Bristol. Look at the Geminis. They're lovely buses but they're rife around Bristol, Bath and The West.

I'm just pleased that First are investing, people are getting new buses that are well specced and reliable, and ultimately more people will travel.

A good point. Some of the fleet are looking very tired.

Apart from the Wessex 19 which Is why I suspect they didnt change it before!

I think the UWE routes should be renumbered so that they're all together. I think the 19 should now be renumbered 13, to coincide with the 12 which also goes down Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road, then the 13 should be the 15, as it would then go 11 for Bower Ashton, 12/13 for Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road, 14 as it is via M32 and the 15 via Glenside, Fishponds and Eastville. Then the 319 can be renumbered 19.

Although I realise that would be highly confusing and would probably not benefit anyone.

If you were to split the 319 how would you do it?

A very good question actually. How busy is it between Kingswood and Bath. I know it is busy between Kingswood and Bristol Parkway, then not as busy between Parkway and Cribbs, but I know it provides a direct link between there and UWE and beyond. The 319 is a MUCH faster route between Frenchay/Filton and Cribbs than the 73, which farts all around Bradley Stoke and Aztec West. So if I was to split it, I would have a Kingswood to Bath service, and a Cribbs to Kingswood service.

I've always wondered why the 318 was withdrawn. I never got the chance to go on it, so I can't comment too much really.

I just boarded 42553 on the 319. It was rammed. Those tiny Darts are FAR too small for such a long, busy and time-constrained route.

 

[Colly405]

I think the UWE routes should be renumbered so that they're all together. I think the 19 should now be renumbered 13, to coincide with the 12 which also goes down Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road, then the 13 should be the 15, as it would then go 11 for Bower Ashton, 12/13 for Filton Avenue and Gloucester Road, 14 as it is via M32 and the 15 via Glenside, Fishponds and Eastville. Then the 319 can be renumbered 19.

Or (and this would need an overseeing authority to get the operators to co-operate)...
The 11A becomes the 11.
The 12 stays as is, giving Lockleaze the 24 & 12 (which fit nicely) and the 72 which goes well with the 12). Eventually...
The 13 becomes the 4, giving Stapleton back a number it recognises, and Blackberry Hill then has the 4 and 5.
The 19 becomes the 10 - giving Cotham the 8, 9 & 10.
The 319 thus becomes the 19.

 

[vicbury]

I also thought those streetlites would be good on 14. Bath were originally due fifteen of them, but only got seven or eight in the end. The 14 or 267 would have been good routes for them. Nonetheless very happy that the others went to MH for the X2/X3. Anyway the 14 is a route which definitley needs some upgrading imo.

I might write to First regarding the lack of space on the Enviro 200s and see what they can do. Knowing the 14 they'll probably just throw some ancient longer buses on it! Maybe next year we'll get some Streetlites - it's odd that the 14 never really gets newer vehicles, it's got to be one of the more profitable routes in Bath.

The only thing I'm worried about is that Bristol and Bath will become 'homogenised' in terms of the vehicles it has. Bristol is PLASTERED in Geminis and Streetlites (hence why the six 63-reg Enviro 400s and Darts like 42723 and 42109/15 make the fleet look unique). This is why it'd be nice if Bristol (and Bath for that matter) had a mixture of Streetlites AND Enviro 300s, just for a bit of a difference. Look at routes such as the 1/2, 42/43/44/45, 48/49, 73 and 75/76. You know what to expect when you're waiting at the bus stop (unlike the 319 ha). This is why a mixture in the fleet would be nice, and I'm slightly worried that the Streetlites will follow the same pattern. Hence why a mixture of Streetlites/Enviro 300s and Geminis/Enviro 400s would be nice. Look at First in Manchester. There's Geminis, Enviro 300s AND 400s and Streetlites.

Enviro 300s are terrible buses, let's strick to Streetlites please! I wouldn't mind seeing some Streetdecks too - they'd get people's heads turning!

 

[swifty]

I'm surprised it hasn't been picked up yet that The Buses of Somerset have been awarded the permanent contract for Taunton P&R services.

A NEW contract to provide Taunton’s popular park and ride service has been awarded to The Buses of Somerset, the Taunton-based operation of First Bus.

The fleet of buses and drivers will be familiar to passengers as the company has been operating the service on a temporary contract since April this year.

http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co...._Somerset_win_Taunton_park_and_ride_contract/

I've also heard the Greyhound coach (23017?) is being used on a contract for Hinckley Point?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not being pessimistic but in terms of newer vehicles I'm worried that Streetlites will litter Bristol. Look at the Geminis. They're lovely buses but they're rife around Bristol, Bath and The West.

A very good question actually. How busy is it between Kingswood and Bath. I know it is busy between Kingswood and Bristol Parkway, then not as busy between Parkway and Cribbs, but I know it provides a direct link between there and UWE and beyond. The 319 is a MUCH faster route between Frenchay/Filton and Cribbs than the 73, which farts all around Bradley Stoke and Aztec West. So if I was to split it, I would have a Kingswood to Bath service, and a Cribbs to Kingswood service.

I've always wondered why the 318 was withdrawn. I never got the chance to go on it, so I can't comment too much really.

I just boarded 42553 on the 319. It was rammed. Those tiny Darts are FAR too small for such a long, busy and time-constrained route.

I'd sooner just have good buses that attract more passengers and Streetlites are better than e200 and e300 IME. There's not just Geminis - we've got two chassis plus e400, ALX Tridents, ALX B7s. Invariably, you get 3 generations of buses at any one time. It always happens and always has, so relax.

I don't see a simple place to split the 319. Cutting it at Kingswood would sever the Bath to UWE link. Instead, perhaps speed it up through Oldland and Kingswood to create more recovery time allocate 2 B7TL and plus B7Ls on it. The 318 went when the 337 and 349 were stitched together to produce the 338. Instead, the 17 and 42 cover the Keynsham end of the 318 whilst the 319 was doubled.
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I'm surprised it hasn't been picked up yet that The Buses of Somerset have been awarded the permanent contract for Taunton P&R services.



http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co...._Somerset_win_Taunton_park_and_ride_contract/

I've also heard the Greyhound coach (23017?) is being used on a contract for Hinckley Point?

Good news for BoS. Wonder what term it's over and if that now means new vehicles will arrive. Also, will the extension to MPH be using the same PVR? Still, good news and all part of the FDCS transformation.

Dare I ask how the bus war with Webberbus is progressing? Also, what happened to the ex Aberdeen B10BLEs that were expected? Still coming?
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I might write to First regarding the lack of space on the Enviro 200s and see what they can do. Knowing the 14 they'll probably just throw some ancient longer buses on it! Maybe next year we'll get some Streetlites - it's odd that the 14 never really gets newer vehicles, it's got to be one of the more profitable routes in Bath.

Enviro 300s are terrible buses, let's strick to Streetlites please! I wouldn't mind seeing some Streetdecks too - they'd get people's heads turning!

I think there's a few deserving cases. I'd expect that, next year, the 5 and 14 might get something depending on the size of the order.

I don't think e300s are terrible (not as bad as e200) but the ADL build quality isn't a patch on Wrightbus.

 

[baza585]

I doubt if more passengers care and in terms of spares (costs, stock levels and a availability) and procurement, then it makes a lot of sense.

I don't know how unique 42723/109/115 are in comparison with the 05/06 Darts. However, we do have the ALX Darts still plus mk1 and mk2 Eclipses and B10BLEs. We won't get any more Mk1 Geminis so new deckers will be a new type. And of course, Manchester got e300s last year - it's now Streetlites as that's the preferred choice.

They'll always be variety - even Stagecoach fleets do and they're more standardised than anyone.

As a First Group shareholder (in a very small way) I just want them to buy the best bus for the job. A fleet with as few different types as possible is cheaper to run, and hence makes more profit for the shareholders which is why the company exists; it has no other purpose.

First Group doesn't exist to give enthusiasts lots of different buses to ride on of take photos of; neither do Stagecoach, Go Ahead or any other operator I can think of. Sad but that's commercial reality.

I suspect the E300s bought by First last year were partly to do with meeting DDA deadlines, partly to do with buying lighter chassis and partly to keep existing suppliers on their toes. The fact that none were ordered this year suggests that Streetlite is the saloon of choice except where heavyweight chassis are required due to arduous operating conditions, or some other factor is in play.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I'd sooner just have good buses that attract more passengers and Streetlites are better than e200 and e300 IME. There's not just Geminis - we've got two chassis plus e400, ALX Tridents, ALX B7s. Invariably, you get 3 generations of buses at any one time. It always happens and always has, so relax.

I can't though. They'll be gone shortly.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can't though. They'll be gone shortly.

Look back a few years ago in 2006. All Pointer Darts but some ALXs still sneaked in. It always happens and I'd sooner catch a nice new Streetlite than an e200 or Vecta. And what will replace the Tridents or oldest B7s - another new type to be certain!
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As a First Group shareholder (in a very small way) I just want them to buy the best bus for the job. A fleet with as few different types as possible is cheaper to run, and hence makes more profit for the shareholders which is why the company exists; it has no other purpose.

First Group doesn't exist to give enthusiasts lots of different buses to ride on of take photos of; neither do Stagecoach, Go Ahead or any other operator I can think of. Sad but that's commercial reality.

I suspect the E300s bought by First last year were partly to do with meeting DDA deadlines, partly to do with buying lighter chassis and partly to keep existing suppliers on their toes. The fact that none were ordered this year suggests that Streetlite is the saloon of choice except where heavyweight chassis are required due to arduous operating conditions, or some other factor is in play.

Totally agree for the same reasons (incl. shareholding )

 

[ValleyLines142]

Look back a few years ago in 2006. All Pointer Darts but some ALXs still sneaked in. It always happens and I'd sooner catch a nice new Streetlite than an e200 or Vecta. And what will replace the Tridents or oldest B7s - another new type to be certain!

I would love to see some more Enviro 400s in Bristol!

 

[freetoview33]

Not that I'm totally sure if this would work.

What about a Bath - U.W.E service and a Severn Beach - Kingswood service

 

[swifty]

As a First Group shareholder (in a very small way) I just want them to buy the best bus for the job. A fleet with as few different types as possible is cheaper to run, and hence makes more profit for the shareholders which is why the company exists; it has no other purpose.

First Group doesn't exist to give enthusiasts lots of different buses to ride on of take photos of; neither do Stagecoach, Go Ahead or any other operator I can think of. Sad but that's commercial reality.

I suspect the E300s bought by First last year were partly to do with meeting DDA deadlines, partly to do with buying lighter chassis and partly to keep existing suppliers on their toes. The fact that none were ordered this year suggests that Streetlite is the saloon of choice except where heavyweight chassis are required due to arduous operating conditions, or some other factor is in play.

Totally agree for the same reasons (incl. shareholding )

I have to agree with both of you on that, at the end of the day First are in it to make a profit not to satisfy enthusiasts. A uniform fleet is much more presentable to the travelling public and easier to keep stocks of spares for than a mish match of chassis and bodies.* We've already got more Streetlites than Darts in the FBSA fleet and that balance will only continue to rise, First have had a hand in helping to develop the MicroHyrbrid so that is where their orders are going to go.

As TGW has said look back a few years and it was a fleet full of Palatine bodied Olympians, Dennis Darts & Leyland Lynx.

* On a related note I overheard a story of a Dart developing a fault during the day last week and someone then heading up to Muller Road to rip a part off of a scrapper and heading back to LH to fix the issue ASAP.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would love to see some more Enviro 400s in Bristol!

Ah but it would be new style. However could be a Wright product?

 

[swifty]

Not that I'm totally sure if this would work.

What about a Bath - U.W.E service and a Severn Beach - Kingswood service

You're wiping out the 625 at the same time then. I think a Bath to Parkway and a Kingswood to Cribbs service would be a viable alternative as changes can be made onwards to Cribbs from Parkway then.

Then you're almost back to 18 & 19 of old, and I've just grabbed my old timetable for it.

19 Parkway - Keynsham
19A Parkway - Hanham
319 Parkway - Bath
were all hourly but provided a 20 minute headway to Kingswood.

18 Shirehampton - Hanham
18A Cribbs - Hanham
518 Westbury - Hanham
Provided a 20 minute headway between Southmead Hospital and Hanham and a 10 minute headway with the 19s between UWE and Kingswood.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You're wiping out the 625 at the same time then. I think a Bath to Parkway and a Kingswood to Cribbs service would be a viable alternative as changes can be made onwards to Cribbs from Parkway then.
/QUOTE]

Yeah, that could work. SB to UWE with Darts and Bath to Parkway with B7TL and Eclipses

 

[ValleyLines142]

Perfect!

I'm surprised the 625 is still going to be honest. It has about 4 people on it at a time.

 

[Bwsbro]

Does anyone know the prices of the X7 between Bristol and Newport as i am wondering if it will be cheeper on the X7 compared to the Greyhound Service?

Thanks in advance

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Perfect!

I'm surprised the 625 is still going to be honest. It has about 4 people on it at a time.

Tendered by SGC?

 

[swifty]

Does anyone know the prices of the X7 between Bristol and Newport as i am wondering if it will be cheeper on the X7 compared to the Greyhound Service?

Thanks in advance

The West of England Day should be valid at £7.
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Tendered by SGC?

The Sunday and Bank Holiday runs were re-tendered in 2013.

 

[freetoview33]

Perfect!

I'm surprised the 625 is still going to be honest. It has about 4 people on it at a time.

It used to be the 625 Severn Beach - Cribbs and the 680 Cribbs - U.W.E then it merged about the time Wessex took over and increased in frequency from 2 hourly to hourly

 

[swifty]

It used to be the 625 Severn Beach - Cribbs and the 680 Cribbs - U.W.E then it merged about the time Wessex took over and increased in frequency from 2 hourly to hourly

It was the 580 from Cribbs - Parkway, the 680 is the Yate to SGS College route. SGBC had some route branded Lynx but they rarely saw service on the 580!

 

[freetoview33]

Most of the time on the 580! there was something as small as anything, the few times I got it I was the only one on it!
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffydog06/6178041650/in/faves-volvob12/

Nice example of what happens when deckers try to go along gypsy patch lane!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Does anyone know the prices of the X7 between Bristol and Newport as i am wondering if it will be cheeper on the X7 compared to the Greyhound Service?

Have a look at the Megabus too

 

[stait.john]

66159 and 69437 are today's single deck offerings on Bristol services 1 & 2. Also 47463 is on 70/71.

John

 

[freetoview33]

I do really think that the 319 needs something doing to it.

 

[Private Baxter]

I think some of Bath's P&R buses are currently out of action. For the last couple of days some of the deckers from the regular fleet have been appearing on the route. Although this is not uncommon, it seems to have had a few knock on effects.

Yesterday there were no deckers on the X39, and also very few streetlites. Two B7s (66719 & 66731) were working it, along with the ex Hoford S reg dart and 42556. Not a good day for the X39...
Meanwhile the apparent shortage of deckers led to one of the 09 reg E200s appearing on the 15. It was rammed! Whilst the newer, shorter streetlites were on 37/38 yesterday rather than their usual 178/379. Finally one odd working from today was B7 66992 on 272.

66163 has now started working in Bath. Was on 15A yesterday, and 379 today. And in Bristol yesterday, parked at the bus station Out of Service was 69437. It clearly wasn't on a 376. Has this transferred again then? Would confirm that it was merely filling in for 66106.

 

[ValleyLines142]

A couple of interesting observations today include 69457 on the 83 and 33830 on the X5!

And I best not find those two single deckers on the 1/2, as I'm about to get the 1 from Cribbs shortly!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think some of Bath's P&R buses are currently out of action. For the last couple of days some of the deckers from the regular fleet have been appearing on the route. Although this is not uncommon, it seems to have had a few knock on effects.

The e400 hybrids aren't the most exhilarating bits of kit. Think the B5LH/Gemini is a better machine.

Sounds like Bath are struggling for buses hence odd allocations incl the 319. Still, at least they're actually covering runs

In other news, looks like Somerset CC are swinging the axe (again) with proposed cuts....

161 losing its Sat service past Shepton to Frome
102 getting withdrawn altogether - my experience was it wasn't really that useful
10 replaced by DRT so only a short term op from BoS
29 funding cut - thought it was all commercial so odd trips?

Lots of other cuts on Sat services especially in Shepton - only service to survive will be commercial service to Wells. Will hurt Hatch Green, Frome Minibuses and Webberbus as well as First

 

[Private Baxter]

Oh dear that 161 really dying a death. Still, the Shepton to Wells section is, and always has been popular. Will be quite a low operation in Wells on Saturdays considering the 375 doesn't run either. Can't say I'm surprised about the other Shepton centred services though.

Don't know much about the 102 but presumably the extended 21 covers most of it anyway. Still, a loss for BoS, and that's a shame.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh dear that 161 really dying a death. Still, the Shepton to Wells section is, and always has been popular. Will be quite a low operation in Wells on Saturdays considering the 375 doesn't run either. Can't say I'm surprised about the other Shepton centred services though.

Don't know much about the 102 but presumably the extended 21 covers most of it anyway. Still, a loss for BoS, and that's a shame.

The extended 21 replaced the 112. However, the 102 has always been the poor relation but that's because the real traffic comes from Brean and the camps on the main route. Other parts of the route are covered by the 67.

I'm a little surprised at the SWC1 losing its funding. I wonder if SCC are hoping that they take it on commercially. It's a fairly important link.

The 161 is very thin between Wells and Frome. The real surprise is how the 184 is hanging on.