ATW to Rebrand Gerald Premier Service

[berneyarms]

Ive just looked at the FGW Swansea Pullman service to London, this must be a comparator, both being Premier Services with a Chef, I note besides paying the variable First Class fare, everyone pays £22 for the Welsh Breakfast, yet on Gerald, ATWs Flagship service,breakfast is free to first class ticket holders.
Plus on FGW Pullman , all classes can use the diner.

East Midlands Trains provide FOC chef cooked breakfasts to First Class customers on certain trains, and of course Virgin and East Coast all provide FOC food to First Class customers.

So ATW is hardly alone in that.

 

[causton]

Perhaps you would like to explain that?

As I said a few posts back, last I read on here there would be a Chiltern-style first class which is not actually called or designated first class, instead marketed as "Business Zone" or similar, so those with first class passes, rovers etc would not be able to use them, but standard class passengers could upgrade to use it.

 

[berneyarms]

As I said a few posts back, last I read on here there would be a Chiltern-style first class which is not actually called or designated first class, instead marketed as "Business Zone" or similar, so those with first class passes, rovers etc would not be able to use them, but standard class passengers could upgrade to use it.

I've not seen any suggestion here or otherwise that such a service would be provided?

 

[AmeralGunson]

Apologies. False impression rail interest male dominated !!!

None taken. I'm a 64 year old retired company secretary. I only arrived here in a quest for a cheap ticket request to get my son from Penzance to Redhill - although I actually live in Earlswood.

 

[extendedpaul]

First post, so apologies if it goes wrong.

If you're in standard you can order anything from the menu, and the staff will usually bring it to your seat. It's not extensive, but there is always a special at good value- last Monday it was venison in red wine sauce with veg, for around £9. I use the service around half a dozen times a year, usually up from Cardiff to Bangor, and would be sorry to lose it.

Question - if WG pay for the service then who sets the food prices? Assume it is not ATW as the price is so cheap.

If a standard class passenger can order a meal like that on a train and get change from a tenner then either the Welsh Government or Arriva Trains Wales really are missing a trick by not publicising it better:roll:

 

[Starmill]

As I said a few posts back, last I read on here there would be a Chiltern-style first class which is not actually called or designated first class, instead marketed as "Business Zone" or similar, so those with first class passes, rovers etc would not be able to use them, but standard class passengers could upgrade to use it.

I thought we had established that First Class tickets were valid in Chiltern's Business Zone?

 

[causton]

I thought we had established that First Class tickets were valid in Chiltern's Business Zone?

I remember being originally told by Chiltern staff on the train the opposite the first (or second or so) time I went on one of the 67s. Interesting though... if it is, I may replan my future first class ALR to include them!

 

[merlodlliw]

East Midlands Trains provide FOC chef cooked breakfasts to First Class customers on certain trains, and of course Virgin and East Coast all provide FOC food to First Class customers.

So ATW is hardly alone in that.

I was giving a comparison of what was available in Wales via Cardiff, has for VT they are franchise services, Welsh Government do not inject funding, I am not bothered about VT/East Coast or East Midlands services, has I have always said,during times of food poverty, I think WG should charge for food,not give it away to those who can afford to pay for it on its own open access train.
The service is not at all well thought out,designed by Politicians,I fail to see why standard class passengers are segregated and not allowed to use the diner and pay for food,it is all very well having a meal delivered to your seat in standard,but embarrassing to have three others at your table, watching you eat it,the diner is for eating cooked food in my opinion, or dont Ministers who use the service once a week in first like constituents being seated along side of them. All my opinion.

 

[47802]

The Minister in her letter to me which many have seen, said All aspects of the Premier Service are under revue including First Class, an audit of all non essential services funded by Welsh Government has been ordered.
Many of you know my opinion on Welsh Government providing free food for First Class passengers on this service and I am sure it will be raised in the Senedd when food poverty and food banks are discussed.
Unlike any other rail service in the UK, Welsh Government pays for everything on this train and decides what to offer,it is after all their train,last year WG paid almost £3million to ATW to run Gerald(this figure does not include hire of stock) ATW just provide the staff to run it.
My opinion of course.

In that case First class should be axed, possibly give Arriva the option to run it as a unit or interchangeably with the other Loco Hauled set, or scrap it all together.

 

[merlodlliw]

In that case First class should be axed, possibly give Arriva the option to run it as a unit or interchangeably with the other Loco Hauled set, or scrap it all together.

Arriva being no growth with four years to go, would want payment to run it,
I am mystified at the spare set of carriages,diner, which never seem to be used,yet were paid for up front in the £3.5millions refurb & rental deal.This now appears small change with ATW getting near £3million just to staff and run Gerald


For anyone interested from today, the internet address of all WG AMs and staff becomes @ cynulliad.cymru in place of @ Wales.gov.UK

 

[Llanigraham]

As I said a few posts back, last I read on here there would be a Chiltern-style first class which is not actually called or designated first class, instead marketed as "Business Zone" or similar, so those with first class passes, rovers etc would not be able to use them, but standard class passengers could upgrade to use it.

Sorry don't know where you thought you've seen that, because I can see no mention of it here.
As has been pointed out WAG pay for the Gerallt and they want First Class, so that is what we get.

 

[berneyarms]

I was giving a comparison of what was available in Wales via Cardiff, has for VT they are franchise services, Welsh Government do not inject funding, I am not bothered about VT/East Coast or East Midlands services, has I have always said,during times of food poverty, I think WG should charge for food,not give it away to those who can afford to pay for it on its own open access train.
The service is not at all well thought out,designed by Politicians,I fail to see why standard class passengers are segregated and not allowed to use the diner and pay for food,it is all very well having a meal delivered to your seat in standard,but embarrassing to have three others at your table, watching you eat it,the diner is for eating cooked food in my opinion, or dont Ministers who use the service once a week in first like constituents being seated along side of them. All my opinion.

Well I shall respectively disagree with you. The additional cost of a first class ticket would more than offset the cost of the food provided.

I certainly would not be embarrassed ordering food and having it delivered to me in standard class to eat. That's exactly how the Travelling Chef on First Great Western worked until the end of November.

 

[Llanigraham]

In that case First class should be axed, possibly give Arriva the option to run it as a unit or interchangeably with the other Loco Hauled set, or scrap it all together.

Not again!
As has been pointed out innumerable times, this service is only run by ATW because WAG pay for it. They cannot do anything without WAG's approval. They cannot "scrap it"!

 

[trainophile]

The steward/host lady who served us a couple of weeks ago mentioned a "business class" possibility but didn't elaborate.

 

[47802]

Not again!
As has been pointed out innumerable times, this service is only run by ATW because WAG pay for it. They cannot do anything without WAG's approval. They cannot "scrap it"!

Yes I know that, my point is WAG should 'scrap it', or look at reducing costs by eliminating 1st class and reduce catering to a trolley service, or possibly getting Arriva to run it as a unit.

 

[6Gman]

Yes I know that, my point is WAG should 'scrap it', or look at reducing costs by eliminating 1st class and reduce catering to a trolley service, or possibly getting Arriva to run it as a unit.

But Arriva doesn't have a unit to run it with. They barely have enough as it is!

 

[Phil from Mon]

Yes I know that, my point is WAG should 'scrap it', or look at reducing costs by eliminating 1st class and reduce catering to a trolley service, or possibly getting Arriva to run it as a unit.

Microwave yes (so long as they don't try to microwave burgers and panini like Virgin do - disgusting doesn't come close) and trolley no. Would you be happy with a four hour journey at the crack of dawn, or ending late at night, with no chance of a hot meal, particularly this time of year?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Would you be happy with a four hour journey at the crack of dawn, or ending late at night, with no chance of a hot meal, particularly this time of year?

Well said. I have similar concerns about the new trains to come out of the IEP, which look set to provide hot food to 1st class passengers only (although on certain routes we'll be too busy trying to find a seat on the new 'midget trains' to notice). The evening menu on Gerald is too changeable (and fancy) for my extremely fussy eating though, but breakfast on-board was good and really makes things alot easier.

 

[merlodlliw]

From the Minister in a e mail to all AMs. Dated today 1st December, it means all AMs can now travel business Class on Gerald,
free breakfast on Monday and free dinner on Wednesday or Thursday evening.On reading this, I get the impression the Minister has taken note of the little Use of Premier Breakfasts. So First Class ends on 12th December/

Dear Assembly Members
I am writing to inform you about changes to the provision of First class on the
North–South Wales Premier Express rail service.
We have been working with Arriva Trains Wales to improve the catering
provided on this service. From 15 December, 2014, first class will be
rebranded to business class with a catering service in keeping with the needs
of business travellers. A range of hot meals will be served by a travelling chef
and will be available for all passengers using the service. There will be a new,
more extensive and flexible menu range and three course meals will be
available in the evening and either a continental breakfast or hot breakfast rolls
provided in the mornings.
Business class passengers will have their meals served at their table, as part
of the ticket price. Standard class passengers will be able to purchase any of
the food options, as at present. Standard class passengers will also be able to
pay a supplement to upgrade to the business class carriage.
Arriva Trains Wales have provided assurance that there will be no staff
redundancies as a result of these changes, and it will improve the marketing
and promotion of the service to generate additional patronage.

Signed Edwina Hart.Minister for Welsh rail

As usual Pm me for the Official letter.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes I know that, my point is WAG should 'scrap it', or look at reducing costs by eliminating 1st class and reduce catering to a trolley service, or possibly getting Arriva to run it as a unit.

1) How is eliminating First Class reducing costs?
2) So you want to make the chef's redundant? Nice!
3) What units?

And thanks Merlodlliw, now we have a proper answer.

 

[headshot119]

So in summary, it'll be exactly the same train, exactly the same staff, exactly the same evening meal option.

The only difference will be the breakfast provision :roll:

 

[trainophile]

So in summary, it'll be exactly the same train, exactly the same staff, exactly the same evening meal option.

The only difference will be the breakfast provision :roll:

So will First Class tickets still be sold for these services? As far as I'm aware, ticket vending engines don't offer a category called Business Class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another Chiltern/Eurostar style accessory to expenses fraud. Great.

 

[ScotTrains]

So in summary, it'll be exactly the same train, exactly the same staff, exactly the same evening meal option.

The only difference will be the breakfast provision :roll:

Sounds like it. Though I'd much rather travel First Class than Business Class even if they are both exactly the same!

 

[Kite159]

Another Chiltern/Eurostar style accessory to expenses fraud. Great.

A bit like the "Scottish executive package" on East Coast, a standard class ticket with a free upgrade to 1st class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is even worse. If I had a "no first class" policy at a company I ran and saw anyone attempting to claim this, I would stamp on them far harder than if they had simply purchased an actual first class ticket.

TBH, though, I would be more sensible in my policy. It would require the purchase of the cheapest ticket offering the required degree of flexibility on the required trains. This would almost never be First Class.

Neil

 

[Starmill]

So after all this.... nothing really is changing Great.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That is even worse. If I had a "no first class" policy at a company I ran and saw anyone attempting to claim this, I would stamp on them far harder than if they had simply purchased an actual first class ticket.

TBH, though, I would be more sensible in my policy. It would require the purchase of the cheapest ticket offering the required degree of flexibility on the required trains. This would almost never be First Class.

Neil

Surely the idea would be that they get the cheapest available ticket and you pay for it through expenses, and they pay the Business Zone upgrade onboard?

Bet you the price of the upgrade goes down a bit to, what is it now bit over £50? £35ish would be much more reasonable.

 

[merlodlliw]

So will First Class tickets still be sold for these services? As far as I'm aware, ticket vending engines don't offer a category called Business Class.

Dont be surprised if ATW bring out its own business fares only available from them, they can do this has "Gerald the Business" is open access.

I note following an audit of full breakfast use, this is now downgraded to hot breakfast rolls, does this still mean the Chef will still travel to Rhyl on Sunday to catch "Gerald the Business" back to Cardiff on Monday mornings, to make breakfast rolls.

 

[Phil from Mon]

This is great news, particularly for the helpful and friendly staff. What is now needed is for a few heads to be banged together in ATW and WG to make sure it is marketed better than it has been in the past. This to my mind has been a disaster so far, possibly as a result of the "split" responsibility for the service with WG funding and ATW operating it. If the marketing does not happen I cannot see it surviving as a quality service for any length of time.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I note following an audit of full breakfast use, this is now downgraded to hot breakfast rolls, does this still mean the Chef will still travel to Rhyl on Sunday to catch "Gerald the Business" back to Cardiff on Monday mornings, to make breakfast rolls.

Is the breakfast offering really downgraded to just hot rolls, or is it an addition to the menu alongside the full cooked breakfast (perhaps with the roll being the complementary offer, and the full breakfast being an extra charge)?