Class 379 Battery Power testing Manningtree - Harwich town 06/01/15

[smudga331]

Just in case anybody is interested, I have managed to get a few snaps and vids of 379013 that has been out going up and down the Mayflower Line (Manningtree - Harwich Town) undergoing battery testing.

RTT Links:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F41080/2015/01/06/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F41081/2015/01/06/advanced

Youtube Clips:
Arrival under Battery: http://youtu.be/cGQYdRaFY8Q
Departure under Pantograph: http://youtu.be/Gdp1EGMwGJU

 

[TheEdge]

I hate to sound dim, but what is the point of this?

Is the intention of this sort of thing to be able to run with the wires down in an emergency or when NR take a OHL possession. Or, in the AGA example, allow a summer saturday service to run from London to Norwich, drop the pans, change ends, run to Yarmouth and stop things like the drags?

 

[smudga331]

I hate to sound dim, but what is the point of this?

Is the intention of this sort of thing to be able to run with the wires down in an emergency or when NR take a OHL possession. Or, in the AGA example, allow a summer saturday service to run from London to Norwich, drop the pans, change ends, run to Yarmouth and stop things like the drags?

I believe its for the latter, I fail to see where AGA could apply this but I believe the government and bombardier are testing it with a view to lines that are mostly electrified but have a small section that isn't. So just as an example, Euston - Blackpool. So the train could get to Preston, drop the panto, run on batteries to Blackpool and then back to Preston again and then raise it.

I may be wrong but that is the census I get from what I have read.

 

[northwichcat]

27 minutes to do an 11 mile run with 4 station stops is hardly impressive.

 

[gordonthemoron]

that's 5 minutes slower than usual

 

[northwichcat]

that's 5 minutes slower than usual

Presumably the usual includes a couple of minutes recovery time as well.

 

[AM9]

I believe its for the latter, I fail to see where AGA could apply this but I believe the government and bombardier are testing it with a view to lines that are mostly electrified but have a small section that isn't. So just as an example, Euston - Blackpool. So the train could get to Preston, drop the panto, run on batteries to Blackpool and then back to Preston again and then raise it.

I may be wrong but that is the census I get from what I have read.

AGA could do the Marks Tey branch and the Felixstowe Branch, - maybe even the Sheringham run when the technology matures a bit more.

 

[306024]

27 minutes to do an 11 mile run with 4 station stops is hardly impressive.

Look closer at the schedule and you'll see it kept to time on the faster bits between Mistley and Wrabness and between Wrabness and Parkeston.

Some of the lost time was extended stops at stations. Hardly a true comparison on its first run.

Presumably the usual includes a couple of minutes recovery time as well.

Usually 1 minute on an all stations run from Manningtree to Harwich.

 

[edwin_m]

I hate to sound dim, but what is the point of this?

Is the intention of this sort of thing to be able to run with the wires down in an emergency or when NR take a OHL possession. Or, in the AGA example, allow a summer saturday service to run from London to Norwich, drop the pans, change ends, run to Yarmouth and stop things like the drags?

It is possibly also to allow gaps or dead parts of the OLE if there are particular parts of the route where clearances are tight, such as tunnels. There is an idea that the train can coast through but that's not always possible and obviously a "gapping" situation would lead to a certain amount of chaos.

There will possibly be more short non-electrified branches with future electrifications go ahead. For example a Nottingham to Matlock train could recharge between Nottingham and Ambergate and run to Matlock and back on battery power (this probably won't work now that service is being extended to Newark).

 

[AngusH]

I hate to sound dim, but what is the point of this?

Is the intention of this sort of thing to be able to run with the wires down in an emergency or when NR take a OHL possession. Or, in the AGA example, allow a summer saturday service to run from London to Norwich, drop the pans, change ends, run to Yarmouth and stop things like the drags?

I don't know what the current plans are, but the original presentations suggested regular running on battery power with a range of possibly 50km.
The example was the Colchester to Sudbury route, (as AM9 said) although that may have changed.

Here's the link if you want to see it:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=30064788652


They were apparently looking at routes which the majority is under wires, but has stretches away from them. In other words, a replacement for running diesel trains on electrified tracks or the the use of bi-modal units like the IEP


I'm really pleased to hear about the progress on this, because I think this may well prove really useful in the future.

Must have been funny to see the train departing with the pantograph down though.

 

[northwichcat]

Look closer at the schedule and you'll see it kept to time on the faster bits between Mistley and Wrabness and between Wrabness and Parkeston.

Some of the lost time was extended stops at stations.

The train did indeed seem to stop for a long time at stations and at all stations in both directions. I wonder if there was some issue like the doors not opening and closing as quickly as usual.

 

[Buttsy]

Seems an ideal initial testing ground to me for the following reasons:

If there is a failure of battery, pop up the pantograph to run the train, avoiding needing rescue by a diesel.
Not having to keep an alternative unit on standby in case of battery failure
Route is the sort of length of line that would suit such units if not already electrified.

 

[northwichcat]

Route is the sort of length of line that would suit such units if not already electrified.

How many lines meet that description?

The kind of lines I can think of are much longer than 10 miles e.g. Scarborough-York is 42 miles.

 

[306024]

The train did indeed seem to stop for a long time at stations and at all stations in both directions. I wonder if there was some issue like the doors not opening and closing as quickly as usual.

It was a test train so all sorts of things may have happened during stops. A more realistic test will be when it operates in passenger service.

Good to see it out and about, this has been a few years in the planning. It will be interesting to see if the technology will be taken forward. Meanwhile AGA could do with the 379 back on West Anglia.

 

[Buttsy]

How many lines meet that description?

The kind of lines I can think of are much longer than 10 miles e.g. Scarborough-York is 42 miles.

I was thinking initially of Sudbury, Blackpool, Matlock, Greenford, Bishop's Aukland type branches, extending the range as confidence increases.

 

[northwichcat]

Blackpool

Not much use for Blackpool. It will be electrified in early 2017 and Manchester-Preston via Bolton won't be electric until then, so that just leaves the potential to use 3 trains on Liverpool South Parkway to Blackpool North services between May 2015 and December 2016. (The line will be closed for 3 months from December 2016.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not much use for Blackpool. It will be electrified in early 2017 and Manchester-Preston via Bolton won't be electric until then, so that just leaves the potential to use 3 trains on Liverpool South Parkway to Blackpool North services between May 2015 and December 2016. (The line will be closed for 3 months from December 2016.)

Barrow might be a good fit, as there is no plan to electrify that.

Neil

 

[gordonthemoron]

Barrow might be a good fit, as there is no plan to electrify that.

Neil

I would have thought that Windermere would have been a better fit as it's shorter, although I thought that was going to be electrified too

 

[northwichcat]

Barrow might be a good fit, as there is no plan to electrify that.

It would be but as a 35 mile unelectrified branch it is quite a bit longer than a 10 mile one like Buttsy was suggesting.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

One thing that seems to be missing is weights to simulate the train being rammed with passengers and luggage. How many miles was it able to do per full charge? I think the maximum number of charge cycles could be a problem for battery powered trains

 

[NSE]

Last time this was discussed on here (I forget which thread) a link was posted to a Japanese line. It was similar, an electric unit running on battery power once it left the mainline, however at the terminus there was a small stretch of OLE for it to recharge from at the station. Having something like this would instantly make its availability soar, allowing use of lines such as York-Scarborough or any similar length lines.

Also, it might be slow on this test. But, this is the first test and it all seemed to go plan so this is a good start

 

[Qwerty133]

Matlock branch after MML electrification?

 

[Bald Rick]

How many lines meet that description?

The kind of lines I can think of are much longer than 10 miles e.g. Scarborough-York is 42 miles.

Ashford-Hastings....

 

[455driver]

remember that any intended route needs to be primarily under the OHL (to charge the batteries) and this wont/cannot be used on routes which are primarily unwired!

 

[Penmorfa]

Llandudno Jct to Llandudno would be a useful one if/when the North Wales coast is electrified, not sure i'd risk Blaenau though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Llandudno Jct to Llandudno would be a useful one if/when the North Wales coast is electrified, not sure i'd risk Blaenau though!

I think Blaenau would be likely to remain diesel for the foreseeable future - steep gradients etc would not be ideal for these battery units.

OTOH if wiring the North Wales Coast it would cost about 50p extra to wire to Llandudno. Windermere is being done on the same basis.

Neil

 

[AM9]

Ashford-Hastings....

That could even be used if 3rd rail wasthe only charging source available.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Were it not for the fact that they're scheduled for knitting up, some of the Thames Valley branches would be obvious candidates for such technology.

 

[jon0844]

remember that any intended route needs to be primarily under the OHL (to charge the batteries) and this wont/cannot be used on routes which are primarily unwired!

You could just ask passengers to bring along portable battery chargers (intended for their smartphone or tablet) and plug them in to charge/power the train.

I wonder how far the train will go with a boost from my 10,000mAh charger.

Seriously though, I am really pleased that something like this is being tested. There's definitely going to be a future for this sort of thing, even if there might still be a lot of testing and planning to go.

 

[jopsuk]

how far is Cambridge-Ipswich? I see a lot of passengers come off a a train from Ipswich joining the 0747 to Liverpool Street in the morning- they'll mainly be from Bury St Edmunds and Newmarket. The rear of the 0747 comes from the sidings.