Greyhound's Demise?

[Teflon Lettuce]

Last week First announced that their Greyhound service from Swansea to Bristol Airport would be cut back to run only Swansea- Cardiff in march. Since then there has been a huge increase in cancellations to the service. Are they deliberately frustrating their customers into transfering to their parallel (more expensive) rail service? Have they lost interest in the whole route?

 

[robertclark125]

The Swansea Cardiff route had its roots (no pun intended) in the SWT Swansea - Cardiff shuttle, which was once run with Leyland Olympian coaches. Indeed, at one point some buses beat the train for speed. I would certainly have thought they would want to keep the service going, or could Nat Ex step in with a Swansea - Cardiff - Bristol service?

 

[Volvodart]

One of the trade press was recently speculating that it could be incorporated into the Clipper network due to the ageing coaches.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

One of the trade press was recently speculating that it could be incorporated into the Clipper network due to the ageing coaches.

yes the coaches are getting on a bit at 10 years old..seems to be a retrograde step to turn it into a clipper service and use buses. I think on a motorway journey I would prefer a 10yr old coach than a new bus. Certainly when Arriva used to use buses on their Aber-Cardiff service people preferred to use the parrelel Blue Bus 701 which uses 20 yr old coaches!

 

[Robertj21a]

The Swansea Cardiff route had its roots (no pun intended) in the SWT Swansea - Cardiff shuttle, which was once run with Leyland Olympian coaches. Indeed, at one point some buses beat the train for speed. I would certainly have thought they would want to keep the service going, or could Nat Ex step in with a Swansea - Cardiff - Bristol service?

I thought it had its roots in the Neath & Cardiff 'Brown bombers' ?

 

[anthony263]

Talk is that that the shuttle branding is to return.

Us drivers have already said to the company it would be a major mistake to use service buses on the route.

First should have some younger coaches around the group which can be used.


I have my opinions on what has gone wrong with greyhound service in south wales however I wont put them here in the public domain
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
National express already run their south wales - Heathrow/Gatwick services via
Bristol

 

[overthewater]

Talk is that that the shuttle branding is to return.

Us drivers have already said to the company it would be a major mistake to use service buses on the route.

First should have some younger coaches around the group which can be used.
I have my opinions on what has gone wrong with greyhound service in south wales however I wont put them here in the public domain

First Scotland East has plenty of spare coaches you can have, please take them...

 

[iantherev]

Not sure that FC would want the B7Rs that were used on the Shuttle before it went Greyhound back! In any case newer coaches are at a premium - I think only those bought for the Reading - Heathrow link have been bought since 2005/6.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Talk is that that the shuttle branding is to return.

Us drivers have already said to the company it would be a major mistake to use service buses on the route.

First should have some younger coaches around the group which can be used.


I have my opinions on what has gone wrong with greyhound service in south wales however I wont put them here in the public domain
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
National express already run their south wales - Heathrow/Gatwick services via
Bristol

I'm intrigued can you shed any light on why there has been such a sudden increase in cancellations on the service since First announced they would be cutting the Bristol leg?

no matter what the new service looks like I think the best thing management could do for the service is decide on a timetable and then leave it alone for more than a few weeks!

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm intrigued can you shed any light on why there has been such a sudden increase in cancellations on the service since First announced they would be cutting the Bristol leg?

no matter what the new service looks like I think the best thing management could do for the service is decide on a timetable and then leave it alone for more than a few weeks!

Might as well get Stagecoach to run it - properly.

 

[mbonwick]

Funny you should mention that, as Stagecoach West have acquired 3 ex-Bedford B9Rs (previously used on X5 Oxford - Cambridge) for a "new express service"...

 

[Carlisle]

Might as well get Stagecoach to run it - properly.

Yes whoever it was at First that started the original greyhound uk idea must have long since moved on as the network was fairly quickly pruned down to almost nothing

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes whoever it was at First that started the original greyhound uk idea must have long since moved on as the network was fairly quickly pruned down to almost nothing

Alex Warner moved before it happened but could probably see the writing on the wall.

I did mention the Greyhound the other week, comparing the ageing fleet with the new Stagecoach X5 machines. Prescient!!

 

[radamfi]

I found it odd that First decided to go into express coaching on shorter routes. Stagecoach had tried it only a few years earlier with the original Megabus routes and quickly shelved them in favour of long distance. Stagecoach also tried something similar before that in the mid 90s with the Stagecoach Express concept using low spec Plaxton coaches. These services were walk up and there was quite a network, such as Blackpool to Manchester and Southport to Lancaster connecting in Preston, the 909 between Sheffield and Hull and the X27 along the south coast. Most of these didn't last long or were gradually downgraded. As rail travel increased in popularity, the main routes that survived were the ones that don't compete with trains such as the X5 or in Scotland where the rail network is relatively slow.

 

[NLC1072]

I found it odd that First decided to go into express coaching on shorter routes. Stagecoach had tried it only a few years earlier with the original Megabus routes and quickly shelved them in favour of long distance. Stagecoach also tried something similar before that in the mid 90s with the Stagecoach Express concept using low spec Plaxton coaches. These services were walk up and there was quite a network, such as Blackpool to Manchester and Southport to Lancaster connecting in Preston, the 909 between Sheffield and Hull and the X27 along the south coast. Most of these didn't last long or were gradually downgraded. As rail travel increased in popularity, the main routes that survived were the ones that don't compete with trains such as the X5 or in Scotland where the rail network is relatively slow.

Don't forget that First have been operating the X30 Stansted to Southend for years and years! That's quite a short distance route.

 

[radamfi]

Don't forget that First have been operating the X30 Stansted to Southend for years and years! That's quite a short distance route.

And doesn't have rail competition.

 

[notadriver]

What's the journey time and ticket prices between Swansea Cardiff / Bristol by coach and train ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What's the journey time and ticket prices between Swansea Cardiff / Bristol by coach and train ?

The rail service is relatively slow (55 mins) whilst the coach is about an hour. However, Swansea station is some distance from the city centre hence why is compares well against rail.

There are plenty of examples where coach has beaten the poor performing train (e.g. X1 Southend vs the misery line) until the rail service has improved.

There are still a number of Stagecoach Express routes still going though, in truth, many were long established services rebranded. The X38 in Devon is another example and again, it benefits from Plymouth station being somewhat distant from the centre and a rather slow end to end rail journey

 

[overthewater]

The rail service is relatively slow (55 mins) whilst the coach is about an hour. However, Swansea station is some distance from the city centre hence why is compares well against rail.

There are plenty of examples where coach has beaten the poor performing train (e.g. X1 Southend vs the misery line) until the rail service has improved.

There are still a number of Stagecoach Express routes still going though, in truth, many were long established services rebranded. The X38 in Devon is another example and again, it benefits from Plymouth station being somewhat distant from the centre and a rather slow end to end rail journey

And of course in Scottish where many Stagecoach express services operate. One has to wonder why expect the X5, most of the english Stagecoach express services are now Gold or low floor?

 

[WelshBluebird]

The rail service is relatively slow (55 mins) whilst the coach is about an hour. However, Swansea station is some distance from the city centre hence why is compares well against rail.

And don't forget if you are talking about Bristol Airport (rather than Bristol itself) then the coach looks even better (as the Airport does not have a rail link).

 

[quarella]

The 55 Minutes mentioned by The Grand Wazoo is only Swansea to Cardiff. Changing trains there to continue to Bristol Temple Meads for bus connection to Bristol Airport would be another 45 – 50 minutes then approximately 20 minutes to the airport. The Greyhound takes approximately 2.5 hours door to door so journey time is quite similar. However the Greyhound does enable you to reach Bristol Airport at 0345, 0545, then through to 2300. By train approximately 0700 would be the earliest arrival. Fares – Greyhound £11.00 single on line (£16.50 on board). Train approximately £30.00 walk up return. Possibility of an Advance fare for £10.00 single. The bus from Bristol Temple Meads to the Airport is £7.00 single or £11.00 return.

http://www.greyhounduk.com/news/20150202/changes-to-greyhound-uk-services-withdrawal-of-cardiff-to-bristol-airport-section-of-route/

As so many people seem to need spoon feeding now, even though access to travel information is easier than ever I can understand pointing people towards an alternative but, as has been mentioned National Express operate a number of Swansea Gatwick services via Bristol Bus Station although not operated by First Cymru.

The Greyhound does not serve Bristol Bus Station or the City Centre going via the M49 and A4 calling at Ashton Gate. The Swansea Cardiff Shuttle previously mentioned was extended to Bristol and Bath for at least one summer in the mid nineties and going back to the early eighties there was the Express West service. The longest journey a couple of times a day was between Bristol and Haverfordwest with other shorter workings such as to Swansea.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/34239514@N07/4078134696

 

[F Great Eastern]

First don't have many suitable newer coaches to use for it. Those 70 seat Plaxton's in Scotland and in Cymru are way too tightly seated to be ever used on scheduled work.

All it really leaves you with is
3x 2007 Railair.com Plaxton Panthers (which are needed)
5x 2008 Stansted Aircoach Plaxton Panthers (which are needed)
10x 2008 Aircoach Dublin Jonckheere SHV Tri Axle (which are needed)
9x 2009 Aircoach Dublin Jonckheere SHV Tri Axle (which are needed)
2x 2011 Railair.com Plaxton Panther 2s (which are needed)
2x 2013 Railair.com Plaxton Panther 2s (which are needed)
2x 2014 Railair.com Plaxton Panther 3s (which are needed)
2x 2014 Aberdeen Coach Hire Temsa Safaris (which are needed)
10x 2014 Aircoach Dublin Plaxton Panther 3s with toilets (which are needed)
6x 2014 Aircoach Dublin Plaxton Panther 3s (which are needed)

 

[mbonwick]

All it really leaves you with is
2x 2014 Aberdeen Coach Hire Temsa Safaris (which are needed)

Being returned off lease AIUI, replaced by older Irizar bodied Scania coaches from elsewhere in group.

 

[Volvodart]

Aberdeen still have the 2 Temsas although one is at Ferrymill for accident repairs just now and one of the older off lease ones is back in its place.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First don't have many suitable newer coaches to use for it. Those 70 seat Plaxton's in Scotland and in Cymru are way too tightly seated to be ever used on scheduled work.

All it really leaves you with is
3x 2007 Railair.com Plaxton Panthers (which are needed)
5x 2008 Stansted Aircoach Plaxton Panthers (which are needed)
10x 2008 Aircoach Dublin Jonckheere SHV Tri Axle (which are needed)
9x 2009 Aircoach Dublin Jonckheere SHV Tri Axle (which are needed)
2x 2011 Railair.com Plaxton Panther 2s (which are needed)
2x 2013 Railair.com Plaxton Panther 2s (which are needed)
2x 2014 Railair.com Plaxton Panther 3s (which are needed)
2x 2014 Aberdeen Coach Hire Temsa Safaris (which are needed)
10x 2014 Aircoach Dublin Plaxton Panther 3s with toilets (which are needed)
6x 2014 Aircoach Dublin Plaxton Panther 3s (which are needed)

Perhaps something to look out for on the impending new order announcement? After 10 years or so of hard graft, perhaps the Irizars need a retirement home??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And of course in Scottish where many Stagecoach express services operate. One has to wonder why expect the X5, most of the english Stagecoach express services are now Gold or low floor?

Part of the problem is success (and the twirly pass). Basically, a number have really developed in terms of ridership. The cheaper thing to do is to have deckers, rather than doubling the frequency which doubles your cost to cope with variable ENCTS reimbursement!

I'm interested in Stagecoach West (rather than Cymru) getting three B9Rs for a new express service. Wonder what that'll be for? Glos to Chelt X94, or something more intriguing.....as ever, I'll wait for Mr Bonwick to clarify for all things Souteresque!!

 

[mbonwick]

Nothing for me to clarify! I'm as much in the dark as the next guy, though the suggestion (rumour) is this a new service rather than vehicle upgrade.

 

[Stan Drews]

I'm interested in Stagecoach West (rather than Cymru) getting three B9Rs for a new express service. Wonder what that'll be for? Glos to Chelt X94, or something more intriguing.....as ever, I'll wait for Mr Bonwick to clarify for all things Souteresque!!

I'd heard they were for a Bristol service.

 

[matt_splat]

you see i'm very surprised about the greyhound last few days because of the rugby services have been full they have also been full recently at Christmas also with the airport expanding easyjet and others announcing new destinations i'm supprised by the move, maybe a hourly rail air link from parkway to the airport could be a good idea going forward better links for people from south wales

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

you see i'm very surprised about the greyhound last few days because of the rugby services have been full they have also been full recently at Christmas also with the airport expanding easyjet and others announcing new destinations i'm supprised by the move, maybe a hourly rail air link from parkway to the airport could be a good idea going forward better links for people from south wales

A few full loads clearly can't disguise that it's not paying. Perhaps going back to the core service, preferably with modern kit, might be better all round.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

First don't have many suitable newer coaches to use for it. Those 70 seat Plaxton's in Scotland and in Cymru are way too tightly seated to be ever used on scheduled work.

Unfortunately all too often just lately there have been 70 seater school coaches used on the Greyhound service when there has been a breakdown... that's if they even bother finding a replacement.

Of more concern is the number of cancellations announced on Sunday with no explanaition... as there is a rumour that Cardiff depot is closing it seems as though that was due to staff shortage...or perhaps First are now getting too embarrassed by their apparent inability to keep the coaches working!