Proposed new SWT services for Yeovil, including Pen Mill via Westbury/Frome

[bnm]

SWT have submitted a track access request for additional services from December 2015. All Yeovil Junction terminators to go forward to Yeovil Pen Mill.

There's also a couple of Waterloo services a day to/from Yeovil stations via Westbury and Frome. Either as an extension of a Salisbury terminator or splitting from an Exeter service at Salisbury.

Also Summer Saturday Only services to Weymouth via Salisbury, Yeovil Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill.

Looks good. I wonder what FGW will have to say...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... 22 - closes 23 march 2015/58th sa form p.pdf

 

[Rapidash]

Looks good. I wonder what FGW will have to say...

'Huzzah, we can send our 150's elsewhere!'

 

[21C101]

It appears that SWT are planning a lot of new services on the West of England route from December 2015. Roughly speaking

1) Six trains a day from Yeovil Junction to Yeovil Pen Mill, reopening the line.

2) Two a day Waterloo to Yeovil Junction via Westbury & Pen Mill

3) One a day Yeovil Pen Mill to Exeter.

4) One extra a day Honiton to Exeter.

5) Summer Saturdays: Waterloo - Salisbury - Gillingham Yeovil Jn - Yeovil Pen Mill - Weymouth, two each way per day.

6) Sats Waterloo - Wareham (with 159), then Wareham - Bourne - Bournemouth Wareham - Wareham Waterloo - I wonder where that might go before long.....

Details here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... 22 - closes 23 march 2015/58th sa form p.pdf

 

[Taunton]

Seems strange. Pen Mill is nowhere near the town centre, it must be about the most south-easterly building in the town, and is really beyond walking distance from the centre of town as well. If you are going to drive or get a taxi you may as well go to the Junction anyway, where there will be a much better train service.

Yeovil has long been used to going out to the Junction anyway, which is much the busier station of the two.

The only station which was central and convenient was the one that was closed, Yeovil Town. In an ideal world all four approaches to the town would have been diverted into that station.

 

[swt_passenger]

Seems strange. Pen Mill is nowhere near the town centre, it must be about the most south-easterly building in the town, and is really beyond walking distance from the centre of town as well. If you are going to drive or get a taxi you may as well go to the Junction anyway, where there will be a much better train service.

In the TAA there's this line "Increased connectivity in the South West by connecting Heart of Wessex line with West of England line.

So do the times (shown in the back of the TAA) provide good connections with the GW services to/from Weymouth ?

Perhaps they've just found a better way of utilising the stock during time it would otherwise be waiting at Yeovil Jn. I see that a number of these trains replace those that would previously have terminated at Gillingham, and a couple of services via Westbury are livened up route learners.

I guess a lot of the proposals rely on DMUs being made available by internal cascade?

PS - a sudden thought, does the introduction of through services between the two Yeovil stations have much of an effect on routeing and fares?

 

[PHILIPE]

'Huzzah, we can send our 150's elsewhere!'

What 150s ?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Interesting. I can see the Yeovil link being useful, for say Weymouth to Exeter or Bath to Honiton journeys, (depending on connections), but it is not exactly a huge market. Pen Mill is hopeless for the town-centre, as is the Junction, although there are quite large housing estates close by. The extra trips to Exeter are sensible given that the Cranbrook development and its station are coming on stream. Presumably Stagecoach is on manoeuvres here in its inimitable style, but to what objective? FGW would probably be quite glad to get rid of Westbury to Weymouth, apart from Summer Saturdays.

 

[fgwrich]

Honiton - Exeter shuttle? Presumably these will be with a unit which lays over at Exeter and in preparation for forming the eastern side of the Devon Metro in the future?

 

[swt_passenger]

Honiton - Exeter shuttle? Presumably these will be with a unit which lays over at Exeter and in preparation for forming the eastern side of the Devon Metro in the future?

It's just the one round trip in this application. The plan in the lapsed GW franchise spec was that there'd be a two hourly extra service to Axminster run by the GW franchise. Of course it is still possible to change, and SWT might just have the stock unlike FGW...

 

[dgl]

I don't think that the walk from pen mill to the town centre is all that long esp. if you go through the park past the river, certainly a lot closer than junction and I think that at least makes having through trains to pen mill a very good idea.

 

[21C101]

It's just the one round trip in this application. The plan in the lapsed GW franchise spec was that there'd be a two hourly extra service to Axminster run by the GW franchise. Of course it is still possible to change, and SWT might just have the stock unlike FGW...

not to mention the intention of not wanting FGW trains on Axminister - Exeter for both operational and revenue reasons.

They may also be eyeing up taking over the Barnstaple line and running through Waterloo - Barnstaple/ Waterloo - Okehampton Services, which would connect at Barnstaple station forecourt with the Stagecoach Run 20 minute interval buses to Ilfracombe/Westward Ho/Appledore and 10 minute interval services to Bideford and Braunton, enabling through ticketing and promotion of such journeys and connect at Okehampton with Stagecoach buses to Bude.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think that the walk from pen mill to the town centre is all that long esp. if you go through the park past the river, certainly a lot closer than junction and I think that at least makes having through trains to pen mill a very good idea.

You can also walk along the old railway path the half mile 10 minute or so walk to Yeovil Town station which is now the Quedam main shopping centre.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

5) Summer Saturdays: Waterloo - Salisbury - Gillingham Yeovil Jn - Yeovil Pen Mill - Weymouth, two each way per day.

6) Sats Waterloo - Wareham (with 159), then Wareham - Bourne - Bournemouth Wareham - Wareham Waterloo - I wonder where that might go before long.....

Details here:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... 22 - closes 23 march 2015/58th sa form p.pdf

Wonder if they're thinking of having the unit run between Swanage and Wareham (bay platform). btw: @21C101 the link you posted doesn't work, it gives a server not found error.

 

[21C101]

It's just the one round trip in this application. The plan in the lapsed GW franchise spec was that there'd be a two hourly extra service to Axminster run by the GW franchise. Of course it is still possible to change, and SWT might just have the stock unlike FGW...

There is also an additional Yeovil Pen Mill to Exeter local train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Spacephoenix - Ive just tried the link quoted on your post and it works ok on mine. Downloads a .pdf

 

[swt_passenger]

Wonder if they're thinking of having the unit run between Swanage and Wareham (bay platform). btw: @21C101 the link you posted doesn't work, it gives a server not found error.

There isn't going to be a bay platform at Wareham. When Swanage trains run to Wareham they'll either be reversing in a through platform or sidings east of the station.

 

[21C101]

There isn't going to be a bay platform at Wareham. When Swanage trains run to Wareham they'll either be reversing in a through platform or sidings east of the station.

I hear from another forum that the SO class 159,waterloo-wareham-bomo-wareham-waterloo diagram is for Swanage Railway reasons but no one knows yet whether they will continue to Norden, Corfe or Swanage.

Im surprised FGW have not done similar from Padd to Minehead on Summer Sats.

 

[Taunton]

not to mention the intention of not wanting FGW trains on Axminister - Exeter for both operational and revenue reasons.

This proposal by GW sounds to me like an Orcats Raid, or a raid on delay compensation (is there a snappy expression like Orcats Raid for that revenue source) if GW fill up all the spare paths, given the difficulties SWT can get into on the long single track sections west of Salisbury - although things are a lot better than they were back in loco/coaches days.

 

[fgwrich]

This proposal by GW sounds to me like an Orcats Raid, or a raid on delay compensation (is there a snappy expression like Orcats Raid for that revenue source) if GW fill up all the spare paths, given the difficulties SWT can get into on the long single track sections west of Salisbury - although things are a lot better than they were back in loco/coaches days.

I believe it wasn't to do with this, more to do with the inclusion of Axminster and East Devon into the Devon Metro (Exmouth - Paignton, Axminster - Barnstaple) while also helping SWT in removing some of the stops in the West of England services to allow the SWTs to be faster. There has also been talk of increasing some of the passing loop provision on the line and these would more than likely be at the western end of the route, hence why Cranbrook is being built as a Single platform station with the intention of future doubling.

 

[swt_passenger]

This proposal by GW sounds to me like an Orcats Raid...

It was a proposal by DfT for the GW franchise in an ITT (now lapsed after the WCML problems), so not really a proposal 'by GW'.

Suggestions of 'Orcats raids' normally get aired when a TOC comes up with its own idea, I don't think this applies to Devon Metro, the whole thing is driven by outside stakeholders.

 

[SprinterMan]

This is absolutely brilliant to see, a big well done to Stagecoach! Hopefully they are just as innovative with the EMCL :P

Interesting to note in the Network Rail document, "apparently" FGW are being consulted twice and First Capital Connect are also being consulted.......

Adam

 

[Taunton]

Suggestions of 'Orcats raids' normally get aired when a TOC comes up with its own idea, I don't think this applies to Devon Metro, the whole thing is driven by outside stakeholders.

Not really. The whole Cross Country franchise was once described as "the biggest Orcats Raid going".

 

[bnm]

Not really. The whole Cross Country franchise was once described as "the biggest Orcats Raid going".

By whom? Citation please.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The link works fine now, must have been a problem with the server. With the 159 to Wareham and possibly Swanage will there be any sort of through ticketing so that someone going there on that service can buy a ticket that covers them all the way to Swanage?

As for XC, could it be merged back into the Virgin franchise, like how it used to be (can't remember why it was split into two franchises in the first place)?

 

[pdeaves]

As for XC, could it be merged back into the Virgin franchise, like how it used to be (can't remember why it was split into two franchises in the first place)?

It was always two franchises. Virgin Trains just branded it as one operation.

 

[21C101]

Having seen a bit more detail on another email forum, it appears that the new Yeovil services are nothing to do with FGW rivalry but more likely to be local bus rivalry/frustration.

There is a (non stagecoach) bus between Yeovil Junction and Yeovil Bus Station which daytime is half hourly until about 4PM then hourly however it only runs roughly between 7AM and 7PM.

This means, that unless you can drive/taxi to the station, that the earliest you can get to Waterloo from Yeovil is 10.19 and the latest you can leave is 16.50. (unless you want to risk a 2 minute connection in the morning and 11 minute connection for the last bus in the evening - in which case you can leave half an hour earlier and return from London half an hour later).

The new service leaves Pen Mill at approx 06.45AM getting you to Waterloo an hour earleir than now, then coming back there are four through services from Waterloo to Pen Mill leaving at 13.50, 15.50, 16.50 and 17.50.

The 16.50 gets you into Pen Mill about 40 minutes before the bus connection from Junction arrives in town and the 17.50 gets you into Pen Mill long after the last bus has left the Junction.

It looks like quite a clever use of turnround time for stock.

Yeovil has almost the same population as Salisbury but only a tenth of the passengers at the Junction station so there is a market there.


(The direct Pen Mill to Exeter service seems to mainly be a stock positioning train to run the early evening extra shuttle to Honiton)

As to the direct service on Summer Sats to Weymouth via Sherborne. Is there any other service in Europe or the world that reverses twice at adjacent stations?

 

[TheWalrus]

Does this have implications for the Waterloo-Bristol services? If the new services cover Warminster and Westbury do we really need to run the Bristol ones as well?

 

[bnm]

Does this have implications for the Waterloo-Bristol services? If the new services cover Warminster and Westbury do we really need to run the Bristol ones as well?

Franchise commitment.

 

[Taunton]

I really would have thought that if Stagecoach wanted to beef up the connection from The Junction into town they could organise a bus themselves, which would be notable cheaper, and have many more connection options, than running trains down the link. It could also serve points around town more useful than Pen Mill. It wouldn't need to be one of their own buses if they don't have a base there, they can just contract the operation out to a local company. They could even enforce the connections with late trains.

 

[30907]

As to the direct service on Summer Sats to Weymouth via Sherborne. Is there any other service in Europe or the world that reverses twice at adjacent stations?

I can't think of a current example.
Barnstaple - Paignton via Exeter Central would be a possibility, though whether any such workings have existed and been advertised I don't know.
In Switzerland, Brig-Goeschenen-Andermatt-Disentis would be another theoretical possibility, though not with the current Taktfahrplan.

There is a good historic example though - for a few years between the closure of the route via Staithes and total withdrawal Middlesbrough - Scarborough trains ran via Whitby Town and West Cliff.
There were a number of routes involving double reversals, but these only involved one station - Templecombe is the obvious local example.

 

[21C101]

I really would have thought that if Stagecoach wanted to beef up the connection from The Junction into town they could organise a bus themselves, which would be notable cheaper, and have many more connection options, than running trains down the link. It could also serve points around town more useful than Pen Mill. It wouldn't need to be one of their own buses if they don't have a base there, they can just contract the operation out to a local company. They could even enforce the connections with late trains.

I think the idea is it costs nothing other than the extra Diesel fuel. The trains via Frome already run ECS for route learning reasons. The ones being extended from Jct to Pen Mill are using stock that would be otherwise idling at Yeovil Jct

 

[Moonshark]

They should leave it to First to run services, a proper company.