Proposed new SWT services for Yeovil, including Pen Mill via Westbury/Frome

[randyrippley]

If there really is a long term desire to properly link Pen Mill and Junction, then the obvious thing to do is to actually build the Clifton Maybank south facing curve from the south side of the Junction to the Dorchester line. The embankment was built and is still there, but my understanding is the GWR never put track on in - they just used the north facing curve.
Trains could then run Pen Mill - Junction (reverse) and then head straight to Dorchester. Or run direct Exeter - Yeovil-Dorchester
Someone in the Railtrack system did mention it as a proposal a few years back, but it seems to have died a death.

By the way, just for the record there was never a direct historic service between Pen Mill and the Junction. Except during wartime there wasn't even a direct link: trains had to go to Town station and reverse. Services were Pen Mill - Town - Taunton, and Junction - Town (during the 1960's worked by GWR pannier tanks and autocars, but previously worked by SR O2, and before that by a small LSWR 2-4-0 class, identity I've forgotten).

 

[Kentish Paul]

They are very much still request stops to this date

Apologies. You are right. Just checked the GWR timetable. Just to say the trains never seem to treat the stations as request stops.

 

[70014IronDuke]

All these"Yeovil extras" are presently considered experimental, they are not actually required in the next franchise spec in the long term.

This note appears on the train service provision spreadsheet:


(In case anyone is planning on any long term ideas to use them for routine travel...)

Yes, I had more or less assumed this. for me, it makes me admire SWT all the more, for trying to push the boundaries here. The DfT presumably want the one train each way minimum between the Yeovils for route knowledge purposes.

But SWT were presumably in no way forced to go to Weymouth, so that must represent quite an investment in terms of train crew training (for such relatively few services.)

 

[Taunton]

By the way, just for the record there was never a direct historic service between Pen Mill and the Junction. Except during wartime there wasn't even a direct link: trains had to go to Town station and reverse. Services were Pen Mill - Town - Taunton, and Junction - Town (during the 1960's worked by GWR pannier tanks and autocars, but previously worked by SR O2, and before that by a small LSWR 2-4-0 class, identity I've forgotten).

The link between Junction and Pen Mill was indeed put in during WW2, traffic between the naval bases at Plymouth and Portland was considered important. The GW line south from Pen Mill and the SR branch from Junction to Town ran parallel for some distance where the link was put in.

In older steam days there were two loco depots, the GW one was at Pen Mill and the SR one was not on the main line as you might expect but at Town station, right behind the platform. In the 1950s the GW depot was closed and the locos consolidated on the old SR depot. There always seemed to be a couple of WC Light Pacifics on the depot, which were a surprise down such a branch. N class 2-6-0s, and LMS 2-6-2T tanks, then occasionally turned up at Taunton on the GW line from Town until closure. Most of the SR sheds west of Salisbury actually had little main line loco allocation and relied on visiting Exmouth Junction locos. GW Pannier tanks took over the Junction shuttle in its last years, and ran through after reversal at Town to Pen Mill (so there finally was a through passenger service), and diesel single cars, and also the pioneer 4-wheel railbuses, did take over until 1966, when Town was closed and the passenger service at last ran via the wartime connection direct between Pen Mill and Junction, for just a couple of years until closed in 1968.

Sorry for the history class

 

[Chris125]

SWT Press Release: https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/n...more-stops-for-dorset-somerset-and-wiltshire/


South West Trains passengers in Dorset, Somerset and Wiltshire will shortly benefit from a new timetable, offering new and extended services.
The improvements will be introduced from 11 December and are in response to feedback and ideas from local passengers, stakeholders and communities to enhance the options available to passengers.


The improvements include:

- An additional two trains per day between London Waterloo and Castle Cary, Bruton and Frome – bringing the total to three

- A new Friday Night train to Yeovil Junction departing London Waterloo at 11.40pm serving Tisbury, Gillingham, Templecombe and Sherborne

- A Sunday evening service from Frome, Westbury and Warminster to Clapham Junction and London Waterloo

- A new Saturday morning service for Weymouth, Dorchester and Wareham to London Waterloo

- A later last train on Saturdays evening - the 8.20pm Waterloo to Yeovil Junction is extended to Crewkerne and Axminster

- On weekdays the 6.15am Yeovil Junction to Exeter will start from Gillingham

- The 7.25am Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo will be extended to six carriages for its entire journey


These improvements to the timetable are the latest enhancements to services provided by South West Trains over the last 12 months, which has included Summer Special services to Dorchester and Weymouth, extra services for Glastonbury, extending a weekday morning service to link Gillingham with Exeter St David’s and free WiFi on all trains between Salisbury and Exeter.

 

[Taunton]

Orcats Raid on Westbury, Frome, Bruton and Cary?

 

[70014IronDuke]

If there really is a long term desire to properly link Pen Mill and Junction, then the obvious thing to do is to actually build the Clifton Maybank south facing curve from the south side of the Junction to the Dorchester line. The embankment was built and is still there, but my understanding is the GWR never put track on in - they just used the north facing curve.
Trains could then run Pen Mill - Junction (reverse) and then head straight to Dorchester. Or run direct Exeter - Yeovil-Dorchester
Someone in the Railtrack system did mention it as a proposal a few years back, but it seems to have died a death. ....

Presumably nobody wants to pay the capital cost of it all for the unknown return. Has there ever been an estimate done as to what it would cost? Presumably would only need a single line link, but the S&T costs would be significant too.

 

[Kite159]

So the 23:40 on a Friday night will be extended to Yeovil, sounds like a good idea

 

[A Challenge]

The Wessex Route Study (draft), explains capacity improvements on the mainline due by the end of the current control period (Apr 2019) which is exactly when the next real franchise starts after the direct award (Apr 2019).

That ITT will also have to deal with the outputs of the Waterloo International remodelling which allows for the extra Windsor side services, such as the through trains from Camberley etc mentioned in a recent thread. Oh and the Reading 10 car service, and the Desiro City introduction.

All in all there are loads of changes in the timescales of the ITT for the next competitive franchise, which if we're lucky will include the Woking grade separation, which must also lead to timetable changes on the main lines.

Did I hear a grade separated station at Woking. Although not likely to happen, this would be nice to have please! I think that this should happen.

What is an 'ORCATS raid' exactly?

Sorry this is an older post!

 

[swt_passenger]

Did I hear a grade separated station at Woking. Although not likely to happen, this would be nice to have please! I think that this should happen.

There is a current discussion of the Woking grade separation within this thread, "Capacity on Southampton to Waterloo line":
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2728921&postcount=82
That post of mine has a link to the proposals.

What is an 'ORCATS raid' exactly?

AN ORCATS raid is when a TOC uses the workings of the "Operational Research Computer Allocation of Tickets to Services' program, (ORCATS) to its on financial advantage.

If you have a scenario where a flow A to B is served by a number of TOCs, potentially with varying sizes of train, different running times, and different routes, but there is an "any permitted" fare, then a fairly complex computer model is used to determine how the fares should allocated to services.

Take as an example Southampton to London Terminals. An 'any permitted' fare exists, and you can either go directly to Waterloo in about 80 mins, or you can go along the coast and into Victoria, taking about an hour longer. 'ORCATS' is used to determine the proportion of the any permitted fare for that flow that is allocated to Southern. Probably not much at all. Now look at a hypothetical situation where Southern can path an extra train up via Basingstoke and Woking once or twice a day. They may now get more of the revenue, whether people actually get on their trains or not.

 

[AndyPJG]

Looks like SWT WoE services to Exeter are running via Westbury and Yeovil Pen Mill today due to a blockade at Tisbury today; could be Sunday as well?

 

[Kite159]

Looks like SWT WoE services to Exeter are running via Westbury and Yeovil Pen Mill today due to a blockade at Tisbury today; could be Sunday as well?

I believe so, only going as far as Honiton