London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

[neilm]

There were issues on Wednesday night and Thursday morning with track circuits, Wednesday night was painful as the Junction at Spa Road to South Bermondsey was lost, so with the tube strike there was no route from London Bridge to the Tulse Hill lines, leaving the only option to run Beckenham Junction / West Croydon trains fast to Crystal Palace / West Croydon with passengers then returning on the up trains.

There were suggestions that track circuit / 442 interface was not as it should be so a painful choice of not using them at London Bridge last night was taken and then some testing post peak was arranged with 2 x 10 car sets.

I see the Up Eastbourne is running this morning . . . .

Interesting, so the 442s could still be causing all these problems?

 

[grid56126]

Interesting, so the 442s could still be causing all these problems?

No. I think this is a bit different. Hopefully all resolved. . .

 

[sarahj]

My 18.23 to Eastbourne was cancelled tonight, with about 15 minutes notice. Due to signal failure on the Down at Redhill..... Hmmm.

The connection record at Lewes for the Seaford branch train (19.31) is missed 4/4 this week. The Delay Repay leaflets at LWS have again been withdrawn from the rack on the central island platform, and are only stocked in a rack on the public side of the barriers, at street level. That is my conspiracy theory de jour.

On Wed I was working the Newhaven Harbour service when you all came over. I think I might have seen you and gave a little wave. (hope it was you )

 

[infobleep]

There were issues on Wednesday night and Thursday morning with track circuits, Wednesday night was painful as the Junction at Spa Road to South Bermondsey was lost, so with the tube strike there was no route from London Bridge to the Tulse Hill lines, leaving the only option to run Beckenham Junction / West Croydon trains fast to Crystal Palace / West Croydon with passengers then returning on the up trains.

There were suggestions that track circuit / 442 interface was not as it should be so a painful choice of not using them at London Bridge last night was taken and then some testing post peak was arranged with 2 x 10 car sets.

I see the Up Eastbourne is running this morning . . . .

Do TfL manage some of the lines between London and Tulse Hill then?

 

[grid56126]

Do TfL manage some of the lines between London and Tulse Hill then?

No. There was no way that people could get to Bermondsey or Canada Water on the tube (for LOROL) so only way was New Cross Gate (not many trains anyway due to disruption) then a LOROL to SurreyQuays for another LOROL towards Clapham. In other words the normal alternatives were not there.

 

[infobleep]

No. There was no way that people could get to Bermondsey or Canada Water on the tube (for LOROL) so only way was New Cross Gate (not many trains anyway due to disruption) then a LOROL to SurreyQuays for another LOROL towards Clapham. In other words the normal alternatives were not there.

Thanks for that. Makes sense now.

 

[Yabbadabba]

Interesting, so the 442s could still be causing all these problems?

We now have a track circuit at Three Bridges that is no longer cl442 tolerant that may or may not be connected to the Thameslink Depot alteration works.

 

[Bald Rick]

We now have a track circuit at Three Bridges that is no longer cl442 tolerant that may or may not be connected to the Thameslink Depot alteration works.

There's track circuits all over the patch that aren't 442 tolerant; London Bridge, Streatham, Eastbourne, Three Bridges....

 

[Yabbadabba]

There's track circuits all over the patch that aren't 442 tolerant; London Bridge, Streatham, Eastbourne, Three Bridges....

Yeah ours surfaced around March time and now we have restrictions on using certain points in certain positions with cl442s. Never had any real problems with the cl442s in this area until then. Yes lots of single ended trippings on the traction current until they boosted the supply, but not track circuit issues.

 

[carriageline]

There's track circuits all over the patch that aren't 442 tolerant; London Bridge, Streatham, Eastbourne, Three Bridges....

I "BELIEVE" they have sorted the Eastbourne one, by changing it for a digital one? There hasn't been any blips since then anyway!

 

[infobleep]

I "BELIEVE" they have sorted the Eastbourne one, by changing it for a digital one? There hasn't been any blips since then anyway!

Would it be easy to make all the others digital too or am I being naive?

 

[Deepgreen]

2B30 was RT at LBG this morning! One thing I have noticed recently is that the previous horrendously slow crawl from the station throat to the buffers has improved markedly - we now glide in at around 10mph almost to the stops, which helps somewhat, not least psychologically for those standing up to get off only to have to wait for what used to seem like ages!

 

[Bald Rick]

Would it be easy to make all the others digital too or am I being naive?

It's not the digital part of it that is the problem. All of London bridge is digital and it happens there.

 

[hwl]

It's not the digital part of it that is the problem. All of London bridge is digital and it happens there.

Is it a traction current return path issue as the problems almost always seem to be near points?

 

[physics34]

2B30 was RT at LBG this morning! One thing I have noticed recently is that the previous horrendously slow crawl from the station throat to the buffers has improved markedly - we now glide in at around 10mph almost to the stops, which helps somewhat, not least psychologically for those standing up to get off only to have to wait for what used to seem like ages!

SOuthern drivers are advised to do no more than 6mph from the tpws grids to the buffers..... but in theory they are set at 10mph so a train can travel at just up to that.

there is a 15mph speed limit from the end of the platforms to these grids.

Drivers must be more confident of the layout now then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
late release of signals especially around the new cross gate area seems to be continuing and is annoying making trains 1-3 mins late into London Bridge frequently.

We can travel up to 60mph as far as Bricklayers arms on the up fast but we are often checked down to signle yellows or reds by then only for that signal to be released as we approach

 

[sarahj]

The Eastbourne to London Bridge pig was only 2 mins late today (my train), just enough time for a quick fag before I pass to Victoria via East Croydon. We were doing ok, but then hit yellows just around forest hill, before flicking over a few points, then a red while we waited for a local to cross our path, then greens all the way in after that.

 

[Bald Rick]

We can travel up to 60mph as far as Bricklayers arms on the up fast but we are often checked down to signle yellows or reds by then only for that signal to be released as we approach

It's called approach control, most of Bricklayers Arms has it.

 

[physics34]

It's called approach control, most of Bricklayers Arms has it.

why do we sometimes get the road straight through though, is that manually set?

 

[Yabbadabba]

It's called approach control, most of Bricklayers Arms has it.

Drivers are not taught about approach controlled signals anymore as far as I'm aware (to much of a SPAD risk these days). Which is a right royal pain in the arse when you've got a train standing off at a signal waiting for it to change up, but they haven't pulled up far enough to occupy the berth track circuit/axle counter section for it to change up and sending SGs via the radio, which then requires a speach call to get the driver to draw forward to allow the signalling to do what it's designed to do. East Croydon platform starters T115/T117/T119/T121 is a common place for this when your crossing fast to slow or vice versa. Another common place is T22 UP LB slow which has to be in a ROL to weave all of those thameslink services via the UP Palace Spur.

 

[FOH]

2B30 was RT at LBG this morning!

In contrast it was absolutely dreadful on the Forest Hill line this morning. I get that running trains is hard but communicating what is happening should not be. Southern should be ashamed of themselves for the cavalier attitude over their customers and not an apology to be heard anywhere.

 

[physics34]

Drivers are not taught about approach controlled signals anymore as far as I'm aware (to much of a SPAD risk these days). Which is a right royal pain in the arse when you've got a train standing off at a signal waiting for it to change up, but they haven't pulled up far enough to occupy the berth track circuit/axel counter section for it to change up and sending SGs via the radio, which then requires a speach call to get the driver to draw forward to allow the signalling to do what it's designed to do. East Croydon platform starters T115/T117/T119/T121 is a common place for this when your crossing fast to slow or vice versa. Another common place is T22 UP LB slow which has to be in a ROL to weave all of those thameslink services via the UP Palace Spur.

it defeats the purpose of the 60 mph crossover at new cross gate/bricklayers, which im sure the workings are timed too because we are slowing down to a red and doing maybe 15 mph when we should/could be doing 60....

 

[Yabbadabba]

it defeats the purpose of the 60 mph crossover at new cross gate/bricklayers, which im sure the workings are timed too because we are slowing down to a red and doing maybe 15 mph when we should/could be doing 60....

When I was over in TBROC last November and was looking at the resignalling briefing pack, Bricklayers Arms Jubction just screamed bottleneck to me. Also a fellow signallers wife who drives can't stand the approach to London Bridge now, as its all signal checks and you never get the same route twice! As we fringe to the new workstation we watch the CCF for the area and everything just runs on reds with no forward routes set until the trains seem to come to a stand, it is as if the overlaps don't swing and have to drop out before the forward routes can be then set.

 

[physics34]

When I was over in TBROC last November and was looking at the resignalling briefing pack, Bricklayers Arms Jubction just screamed bottleneck to me. Also a fellow signallers wife who drives can't stand the approach to London Bridge now as its all signal checks and you never get the same route twice! As we fringe to the new workstation we watch the CCF for the area and everything just runs on reds with no forward routes set until the trains seem to come to a stand, it is as if the overlaps don't swing and have to drop out before the forward routes can be then set.

yep thats exactly what its like. Im sitting on a red, 3 signals from london bridge... after the last train out of london bridge has passed me.

 

[carriageline]

I believe they do have problems with overlaps up there, and the current layout doesn't help much.

 

[Yabbadabba]

When the Down Sussex Slow starts using the Bermondsy dive under at least it will reduce the conflicts at Bricklayers Arms Jcn and maybe South Bermondsey (Mexican) Jcn.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yep when the Down Sussex Slow opens through the dive under next year, pretty much all up traffic from NXG will be routed via the Sussex Reversible, which means that only trains off the Up Slow get approach controlled. And as they will all normally stop at NXG anyway, it's not an issue.

 

[FOH]

Yep when the Down Sussex Slow opens through the dive under next year, pretty much all up traffic from NXG will be routed via the Sussex Reversible, which means that only trains off the Up Slow get approach controlled. And as they will all normally stop at NXG anyway, it's not an issue.

Does that mean that the withdrawn services will be reinstated?

 

[Bald Rick]

Does that mean that the withdrawn services will be reinstated?

Don't know yet, and won't until early next year. Personal view is that the layout changes make it easier to segregate the NXG traffic from the Peckham Rye traffic and thus reinstatement is likely.

 

[FOH]

Don't know yet, and won't until early next year. Personal view is that the layout changes make it easier to segregate the NXG traffic from the Peckham Rye traffic and thus reinstatement is likely.

Ok I might press the managers tomorrow if I get a chance between venting my anger over current

 

[Deepgreen]

The 1659 London Bridge to Horsham left virtually on time yesterday, but ground to a halt at the 'advance starters'. We sat there for a few minutes with the conductor telling us we were waiting for a red signal to clear (thanks!), then crawled a few metres forward and stopped again. This was repeated once more, and then, after another few minutes, the driver sounded a long blast on the horn and crawled forward again (past the signal), after which we stopped very suddenly again. After a further couple of minutes we set off as normal. The delay meant I missed my hourly train to Betchworth from Redhill which the staff there sent off despite seeing us dashing along the platform to catch it.

Was this an instance of the driver stopping too short of the signal, and, if so, why is this an issue at these spots?