tram recommendations

[34D]

Passing through Brussels earlier this month, I was amazed to see a reasonable number of older trams in service (I guess 1980s maybe 70s?).

Are there any other European cities with a reasonable contingent of older trams?

Indeed, anywhere that won't have older trams for much longer?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Passing through Brussels earlier this month, I was amazed to see a reasonable number of older trams in service (I guess 1980s maybe 70s?).

Are there any other European cities with a reasonable contingent of older trams?

Indeed, anywhere that won't have older trams for much longer?

How about Sofia, Bulgaria?

 

[317666]

Indeed Brussels still does have a reasonable number of 1970s trams. I would personally recommend Vienna, where classic tram + trailer sets are still common. However, new Bombardier trams will be arriving in the next few years so I'd go sooner rather than later. Berlin still has a fair number of old Tatra tramcars left, although they're gradually being replaced by new Bombardier trams. A lot of the ex-Berlin trams have been exported to Szczecin in Poland, though. Lastly, Zürich still has quite a lot of older trams too, and I don't think there's any plans to get rid of them (someone correct me if I'm wrong!).

 

[CarltonA]

Lisbon had some old ones running when I was there about five years ago and Milan was similar. Stockholm has only one line remaining but it has heritage trams running including US and German trams.

 

[34D]

How about Sofia, Bulgaria?

Was my thought. Bahn.de tells me it's a 39 hour journey though

 

[Ash Bridge]

Was my thought. Bahn.de tells me it's a 39 hour journey though

Wow, that's bit of a marathon!

Think I might just stick to suffering three and a half hours on Easyjet from Manchester over that then, just to add I think Sofia airport has now got a metro station which makes things much simpler at that end.

 

[fowler9]

Pretty much all of the former Soviet block countries I have been over the last 5 or 6 years still seem to have a decent number of relatively old trams. Prague, Krakow, Tallinn, Berlin, Wroclaw, Warsaw and others. I don't know if some of these may have been replaced recently but cities such as these are worth investigating, cheap to get to and stay in. My next definite trip is to Riga. Possibly another trip to Krakow before then.

 

[daikilo]

Lisbon had some old ones running when I was there about five years ago and Milan was similar. Stockholm has only one line remaining but it has heritage trams running including US and German trams.

Lisbon still does on the 28 and well worth the journey over the full, hilly length, especially if you can watch the driver.

 

[dutchflyer]

Specific mention for ROMANIA-where nearly all the 14/15 tramtowns have 2nd hand ex-German units-some are now even refurbishing them.
The old East block had its own tramway production, mostly from Praha/Tatra and these can still be seen in large nrs. around. Of course in Praha itself, and all Czech towns, but the more original (not refurbished etc.) type mostly in Ukrayne. Poland had its own type-named''glassboxes'' or aquariums, and venerated are the old ones built in RIGA (copycat of the original PCC from USA) and still in small nrs. around in Russia and Baltics.
Sarajevo has also mostly 2nd hand cast-offs from DE and AT.
The very oldest of old are in MIlano-the Peter Witt cars-from the 1920/30's. Ditto for some Italian branch lines in the railways-some of these also still run pre-war stock.

 

[30907]

Prague may not have the oldest but for sheer volume is hard to match.

 

[Searle]

Arad, Romania has the worst trams I've ever travelled on. The whole city is pretty dismal as well actually. Belgrade, Serbia has really old trams, but the city is nicer.

 

[Quakkerillo]

From personal experience: Milan, Prague, and Vienna still have some nice old trams running.

For Brussels, if you're ever back, trams 39/44 always run with the oldest in-service stock. Some other lines (51, 81, 97) still see the trams that are bit more modern. 62, 92, 93, 94 see the first low-floor variety, while trams 3, 4, 7, 19, 25, 51, 55, 82 see the most modern varieties, with trams 3 4 and 7 also having 40m trams (other modern ones are 30m)

 

[Groningen]

I believe some trams from the west have a second life in the east of Europe. Trams from Amsterdam seem to be found in Sarajevo and Poznan. And may be more places.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I believe some trams from the west have a second life in the east of Europe. Trams from Amsterdam seem to be found in Sarajevo and Poznan. And may be more places.

Iam not so knowledgeable about trams or light rail so could you explain which of the two types shown are former Amsterdam vehicles, thanks .

 

[rf_ioliver]

Helsinki and Tallinn I can recommend. In the former there's a very nice 70yo tram equipped with a bar that runs in the summer...

t.

Ian

 

[Quakkerillo]

Iam not so knowledgeable about trams or light rail so could you explain which of the two types shown are former Amsterdam vehicles, thanks .

Left one. Similar design also ran in Rotterdam, and still does in The Hague.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks for that.

 

[johnnychips]

Gent, in Belgium, still has some old trams running alongside the new ones.

 

[Groningen]

Another tram from Amsterdam, but now in Poznan. The source of this picture did not know that of course.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

One European town has got ex DLR units running after being converted to trams

 

[Quakkerillo]

That would be Essen, although it runs as 'Stadtbahn' which is a bit different from straßenbahn, the actual tram. This is more light rail, with metro service in the inner city

 

[Hornet]

Lisbon still does on the 28 and well worth the journey over the full, hilly length, especially if you can watch the driver.

Routes 12 and 25 also use vintage single car Trams and travel over equally hilly routes, and are not so rammed during the day.

Curves would be too tight for their modern equivalent's.

A few photo's from my trip to Lisbon in June showing the Historic Tourist Tram (very expensive), and Trams on Routes 25 and 28 plus their modern equivalent on Route 15. Day ticket for the yellow Carris Trams is €6.00.

Forgot about Milan. A couple of snaps from two years ago added.

 

[Zamracene749]

Agree with others regarding Prague, loads of elderly Tatra t3 and t5 mixing up with all eras of modern gear, plus in summer and I believe at weekends you can ride tram 91 right across the city for a modest fee, operated by vintage trams from the transport museum at Stresovice.

Poznan has a great mixed fleet, they seem quite proud of the older stuff in normal service, when I visited there were info posters inside the trams detailing history, origin etc.

Budapest is also superb for trams(and trolleybuses, and underground trains) see here for an enthusiast page http://hampage.hu/trams/thg2bp/

Leipzig has an incredibly dense tram network, there are still some elderly trams knocking around but I think they are slated for replacement soon, as are the many older Duewags in Vienna.

Failing that, visit any smaller ex eastern bloc city and you are unlikely to be disappointed, Brno, Katowice, Liberec, Ostrava, Olomouc, Oradea, etc spring to mind
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Agree with others regarding Prague, loads of elderly Tatra t3 and t5 mixing up with all eras of modern gear, plus in summer and I believe at weekends you can ride tram 91 right across the city for a modest fee, operated by vintage trams from the transport museum at Stresovice.

Poznan has a great mixed fleet, they seem quite proud of the older stuff in normal service, when I visited there were info posters inside the trams detailing history, origin etc.

Budapest is also superb for trams(and trolleybuses, and underground trains) see here for an enthusiast page http://hampage.hu/trams/thg2bp/

Leipzig has an incredibly dense tram network, there are still some elderly trams knocking around but I think they are slated for replacement soon, as are the many older Duewags in Vienna.

Failing that, visit any smaller ex eastern bloc city and you are unlikely to be disappointed, Brno, Katowice, Liberec, Ostrava, Olomouc, Oradea, etc spring to mind

 

[34D]

Great replies and suggestions

 

[Mag_seven]

Passing through Brussels earlier this month, I was amazed to see a reasonable number of older trams in service (I guess 1980s maybe 70s?).

Are there any other European cities with a reasonable contingent of older trams?

Indeed, anywhere that won't have older trams for much longer?

There were quite a few older type trams running in Vienna when I was there earlier this year.

 

[martinsh]

Pretty much all of the former Soviet block countries I have been over the last 5 or 6 years still seem to have a decent number of relatively old trams. Prague, Krakow, Tallinn, Berlin, Wroclaw, Warsaw and others. I don't know if some of these may have been replaced recently but cities such as these are worth investigating, cheap to get to and stay in. My next definite trip is to Riga. Possibly another trip to Krakow before then.

just back from Riga. Can confirm that (roughly) 4 routes were using Tatra T3s, one route Tatra T6s, and a couple of routes new Skoda trams.

AFAIK Liepaja still has a 100% Tara KT4 fleet.

 

[Gordon]

Rather depends what type of experience you are after. The further East you go the more interesting the trams get, but the less upmarket the infrastructure. Romania and Bulgaria has systems which have a mixture of stock including hand me downs from western Europe. Sarajevo is probably the most mixed. Everything from original stock which survived the civil war through all types of cars donated from western Europe.

If you want old(er) trams but running on decent infrastructure, then the already mentioned cities are the ones to go for, namely Prague, Vienna, Leipzig, Milan (all famously big networks).

Helsinki is my favourite European tram city, clean Baltic air, lovely green livery, and a good number of surviving 'traditional' (i.e. not multi-section super trams) 6-axle home-built articulated trams

Milan is the 'oldest' fleet in Western Europe, with the Peter Witt American type streetcars in continuous service since before 1930

In Lisbon, the old 4-wheel American type semi-convertible trams (albeit modernised) run all remaining routes except the route 15 modernised to LRT standards



.

 

[theageofthetra]

In the US there are several systems which operate as a regular service but using heritage trams. San Fransisco (the harbour streetcars from various old systems including Blackpool, not the cable cars), New Orleans, Tampa & Tuscon. The Tuscon one is a lot of fun as they get you to and from the main bar/restaurant strip.

 

[duncanp]

In the US, Dallas operates a regular service using heritage trams along McKinney Avenue and the West End. This connects the city centre with an area that has a lot of bars and restaurants.

See http://www.mata.org/ for details.

Looking forward to going on it in a few weeks time.

 

[ag51ruk]

In the US there are several systems which operate as a regular service but using heritage trams. San Fransisco (the harbour streetcars from various old systems including Blackpool, not the cable cars), New Orleans, Tampa & Tuscon. The Tuscon one is a lot of fun as they get you to and from the main bar/restaurant strip.

San Francisco also has some ex-Milan trams. Even further afield, Melbourne has a massive tram network and still runs some very old trams on the city circle route (I think the surviving ones were built in the 50s but very similar to a design from the 20s)