Two new stations: Bermuda Park and Coventry (previously Ricoh) Arena

[Aictos]

I suspect LM will simply counter with the fact that they told everyone that this was the case even in the planning of the stations.

If that is the case why did DfT sign off on the new stations being built if they knew LM didn't have the rolling stock to operate this route?

I ask this because rightly or wrongly I always thought any project on the UK Rail Network required the DfT to sign it off regardless?

 

[HLE]

If that is the case why did DfT sign off on the new stations being built if they knew LM didn't have the rolling stock to operate this route?

I ask this because rightly or wrongly I always thought any project on the UK Rail Network required the DfT to sign it off regardless?

They do have the stock to operate the route with the new stations.

It's just the special events that can't be catered for yet.

Believe me it's a kick in the teeth for both passengers and traincrew regarding new stock being used. It was always made out to be a 'done deal' that 172's were to take over.

I suppose with the line set to be electrified within the next few years(?), LM hierarchy couldn't justify the cost of training up Coventry drivers on the 172's, getting them route cleared etc., only to replace them in a few years with EMU's (323's?) which Coventry drivers already sign.

That is only my opinion though.

 

[Aictos]

What was the point in building the stations if they knew they couldn't cater for the special events at the arena on that line?

Surely part of the case for building these stations was to cater for future growth and as such further growth at the arena itself?

It's not like Drayton Park where the station cannot be served when Arsenal play at home as platforms are too narrow nor have multiple alternatives nearby.

I hope they resolve it soon though for the common good of everyone.

 

[The Planner]

They have done by building the stations though? Would you prefer they hadn't at all? Wait for when Kenilworth gets going and the feeling of deja vu there is going to be.

 

[wellwhatitis]

You can blame all this on the hangover from the WCML franchise farce. When these plans were made the franchises were all due for renewal and any new franchise would have made provision for rolling stock and traincrew appropriately. The new franchises would have been starting at a time not dissimilar to the completion of all 3 new stations.

Because we are now in never ending 'direct award' limbo, the stations will simply gather dust until a new franchise is eventually tendered. No operator can make the changes required for this sort of situation whilst being given constant direct awards with short terms on them. All they allow for is another period of status quo, and for once LM are pretty blameless here.

 

[chiltern trev]

LM is already getting bad PR and has been since the Coventry Telegraph published it's article about 1 week ago. All the comments on the Coventy Telegraph article were adverse as have been all the one I have read on Wasps fans facebook and forum threads.

As regards LM stating this would be the case 5 years ago, that is 5 years to sort the problem.

Re Coventry crews - do they just do Coventry <> Nuneaton or any other routes?

Perhaps the shuttle bus provider will be the money winner as one shuttle bus for the Singha 7s was fully branded for Wasps - full black and yellow paint job with logos and ticket office details, etc. It looked like a Northern Counties bodied Olympian but I do not know who provides the shuttle buses.

 

[wellwhatitis]

LM is already getting bad PR and has been since the Coventry Telegraph published it's article about 1 week ago. All the comments on the Coventy Telegraph article were adverse as have been all the one I have read on Wasps fans facebook and forum threads.

As regards LM stating this would be the case 5 years ago, that is 5 years to sort the problem.

Re Coventry crews - do they just do Coventry <> Nuneaton or any other routes?

Perhaps the shuttle bus provider will be the money winner as one shuttle bus for the Singha 7s was fully branded for Wasps - full black and yellow paint job with logos and ticket office details, etc. It looked like a Northern Counties bodied Olympian but I do not know who provides the shuttle buses.

Coventry depot work BHM-NMP, WVH-WSL, RDC-LTV, COV-NUN.

Why do people think that it was LM's problem to solve when the extra work doesn't fall within the current Direct Award?

 

[87015]

Coventry depot work BHM-NMP, WVH-WSL, RDC-LTV, COV-NUN.

Why do people think that it was LM's problem to solve when the extra work doesn't fall within the current Direct Award?

Because its their route. It's not in most (any?) franchise agreements to provide extras for events, but other TOCs do it because its the right thing to do. LM are pathetic from top down time after time...

 

[wellwhatitis]

Because its their route. It's not in most (any?) franchise agreements to provide extras for events, but other TOCs do it because its the right thing to do. LM are pathetic from top down time after time...

They do provide extras on many areas of their network for special events. But this is a route that only a handful of traincrew sign using rolling stock that is already at a premium.

The only DMU's that Coventry traincrew sign are 153's and these are rarely spare.

They cant just throw extra workings onto it without spending large amounts of time and money to prepare. The failings are of the lack of joined up working by all the various parties involved (of which there are far too many).

 

[OwlMan]

Because its their route. It's not in most (any?) franchise agreements to provide extras for events, but other TOCs do it because its the right thing to do. LM are pathetic from top down time after time...

But until stage 2 is complete with the addition bay platform at Coventry, there is no spare capacity at Coventry for extra trains.

 

[wellwhatitis]

But until stage 2 is complete with the addition bay platform at Coventry, there is no spare capacity at Coventry for extra trains.

Yes, that is correct. There are no vacant paths to route any additional trains onto existing platforms, NR have made this clear.

It is actually the delays and downgrading of work to Coventry station that is causing most of this. It is the lack of paths across Coventry that will also prevent the additional trains to Leamington.

This is the stuff the journos don't bother to write because they think people are too stupid to understand it, so they go for the easy hit and clobber LM.

 

[87015]

But until stage 2 is complete with the addition bay platform at Coventry, there is no spare capacity at Coventry for extra trains.

There is capacity at Cov on the opposite half hour, certainly for STP, looking at next weeks WTT. It's down to LM that they can "only" use 153.
If there was a will there would be a way. Comes across as yet more LM disinterest I'm afraid.

 

[wellwhatitis]

There is capacity at Cov on the opposite half hour, certainly for STP, looking at next weeks WTT. It's down to LM that they can "only" use 153.
If there was a will there would be a way. Comes across as yet more LM disinterest I'm afraid.

Yes it is down to them that the depot only signs 153's. But how much extra cost/time is it reasonable to expect them to absorb in order to train crew up on other stock from scratch? I'm merely pointing out that this situation is not as simple and clear cut as others where crew may already sign other stock and other depots may already sign the route.

 

[The Planner]

Whereabouts on the opposite half hour?

 

[nuneatonmark]

As most of the events are at the weekend, this 'restriction' on a single 153 is not true. LM very frequently manage to put 2 153s on at weekend so there must be additional stock available at weekends. The situation is stupid and unfathomable by most people regardless of whether it was in the 'direct' or original franchise award or not. Everyone knew this was coming, so had plenty of chance to sort it out. There are many, many examples in other parts of the country where operators have used a bit ingenuity to provide longer trains for new or enhanced services it just takes some common sense to prevail which seems very lacking from all parties at present.

 

[HSTEd]

Also couldn't they just sandwich random other Sprinters between two 153s?
Would a driver have to sign anything but a 153 to operate that?

 

[NSEFAN]

Also couldn't they just sandwich random other Sprinters between two 153s?
Would a driver have to sign anything but a 153 to operate that?

I don't think platforms even take the resulting 4+ car train as per your suggestion. (I am assuming you mean something like a 153+172+153 combo).

As has been said unless the DfT insists that LM do something such a train drivers on 172s, then it's unlikely to happen.

 

[chiltern trev]

Thanks for the info on which routes Coventry staff sign. From which I presume there is a sufficiently large enough pool of staff to cover a few extra workings, i.e. shuttles Coventry <> Ricoh.

Re Class 172s. So to avoid short term training costs, why not run them with 2 crews - one crew who know how to work the train (Tyseley depot) and the other crew (Coventry) who are signed for the route? Unless there is a route knowledge gap for the link between Tyseley depot Snow Hill lines and the New Street to Coventry lines.


Re blaming LM.

In the Coventry Telegraph article dated 25 Aug "Coventry City FC and Wasps RFC fans warned not to use new Ricoh Arena train station" http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-wasps-rfc-9920187 and subsequently elsewhere, it mentions London Midland several times and includes a quote from a spokesperson for the train company.

Moving on a few days and on 27 August "Ricoh Arena Station: Decision to ban Coventry City and Wasps fans from using it signed off by council-headed group" - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-station-decision-ban-9941845. " It has emerged that the Ricoh Arena Safety Advisory Group (SAG), which made the recommendation to close the station to fans, is chaired by Coventry City Council development officer Barry Butterworth. ". So bad PR now for Coventry City Council.

And Dft not exactly popular for refusing to help resolve the issue - 29 August "Government rejects calls to intervene in £3.4 million Ricoh Arena rail station 'farce' " - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/government-rejects-calls-intervene-34-9947215

I agree with nuneatonmark's comment.

 

[wellwhatitis]

Thanks for the info on which routes Coventry staff sign. From which I presume there is a sufficiently large enough pool of staff to cover a few extra workings, i.e. shuttles Coventry <> Ricoh.

Re Class 172s. So to avoid short term training costs, why not run them with 2 crews - one crew who know how to work the train (Tyseley depot) and the other crew (Coventry) who are signed for the route? Unless there is a route knowledge gap for the link between Tyseley depot Snow Hill lines and the New Street to Coventry lines.


Re blaming LM.

In the Coventry Telegraph article dated 25 Aug "Coventry City FC and Wasps RFC fans warned not to use new Ricoh Arena train station" http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-wasps-rfc-9920187 and subsequently elsewhere, it mentions London Midland several times and includes a quote from a spokesperson for the train company.

Moving on a few days and on 27 August "Ricoh Arena Station: Decision to ban Coventry City and Wasps fans from using it signed off by council-headed group" - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-station-decision-ban-9941845. " It has emerged that the Ricoh Arena Safety Advisory Group (SAG), which made the recommendation to close the station to fans, is chaired by Coventry City Council development officer Barry Butterworth. ". So bad PR now for Coventry City Council.

And Dft not exactly popular for refusing to help resolve the issue - 29 August "Government rejects calls to intervene in £3.4 million Ricoh Arena rail station 'farce' " - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/government-rejects-calls-intervene-34-9947215

I agree with nuneatonmark's comment.

On the point of crew, you have answered your own question. Of the crew at Coventry, on the drivers' side only 1 of the 2 links signs the branch and the DMU's, the other link only signs 323/350.

The New St drivers only 1 link signs Tyseley to Cov and DMU's, New St to Cov on 323/350 is entirely separate.

DMU Conversion courses at LM are at a premium or none existent at the moment for a variety of reasons, mainly instructor availability. And also again due to the Direct Award cycle they are in.

LM certainly don't have sufficient crew to double work any trains. They are struggling to get a full service out as it is.

So unfortunately it is nowhere near as simple as you surmise.

 

[PHILIPE]

Also couldn't they just sandwich random other Sprinters between two 153s?
Would a driver have to sign anything but a 153 to operate that?

A driver has to have knowledge of all units within a formation.

 

[Class 170101]

Also couldn't they just sandwich random other Sprinters between two 153s?
Would a driver have to sign anything but a 153 to operate that?

A driver has to have knowledge of all units within a formation.

Correct and as an aside a 15x and a 17x sandwich is banned by either RAIB or HSE instruction.

 

[HLE]

Also couldn't they just sandwich random other Sprinters between two 153s?
Would a driver have to sign anything but a 153 to operate that?

A driver has to sign all units that make up his train. It's not just about driving them; it's also knowing how to rectify faults, even simple things like locating emergency equipment. Seems silly but it can be located in different places on different units. It's not just about the cab.

Now when are these stations going to open? They're done, save for the finishing touches, so let's get them open!

 

[153375]

According to the Coventry observer the stations are due to open on Monday 21st September

 

[nuneatonmark]

According to the Coventry observer the stations are due to open on Monday 21st September

I won't hold my breath, we've been here before more than once.

Still no solution to the one carriage problem in normal operation or the event operation.

How long before the increase in passengers as a result of two new stations results in problems in using a single 153. Predictions here please!

 

[HLE]

I won't hold my breath, we've been here before more than once.

Still no solution to the one carriage problem in normal operation or the event operation.

How long before the increase in passengers as a result of two new stations results in problems in using a single 153. Predictions here please!

Hmm. Don't forget though that during the day that dogbox is only a quarter full.
The new arena station may increase numbers during the day for people wanting to visit the arena retail park.

It's only in the peaks that it's rammed normally.

London Midland know this and won't be particularly keen to place additional stock on the route for a few hours a day. The railway is now run like a business so cost is one of the biggest factors. Another is that a lot of the local folk use the bus (for some reason) if they don't drive to get to Coventry. Why they do this when it takes three times as long and is more expensive than the train is anyone's guess.

Both the passengers and some if not all of the traincrew would like new trains/units, unfortunately I can't see this happening until the line is electrified.
For what it's worth I can't see phase 2 being started anytime soon.

Latest date that has gone round for the opening date is what has been posted yesterday.

Phoned London Midland yesterday, got told that it would be sometime in September: they just didn't know when.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Another is that a lot of the local folk use the bus (for some reason) if they don't drive to get to Coventry. Why they do this when it takes three times as long and is more expensive than the train is anyone's guess.

Probably something to do with Bedworth to Coventry having 15+ buses per hour and to the city centre.

 

[OwlMan]

According to the lolcal rag, this could become the latest home of the exLU trains

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/london-underground-tube-trains-could-10012896

Coventry City Council visited Vivarail in Stratford-upon-Avon to look at a possible solution to matchday transport issues.

Coun Rachel Lancaster and Coun Kevin Maton at Vivarail, in Startford-upon-Avon. Picture supplied by Rachel Lancaster.
Adapted London Underground trains could be used to sort out the Ricoh Arena rail station shambles.
Coventry City Council officials have visited a firm which specialises in re-purposing former tube trains as part of efforts to tackle an acute shortage of trains.
The authority is trying to help resolve the embarrassing situation which will see the new £3.4million station open this month - only to remain closed to Coventry City FC and Wasps fans.
London Midland, which operates services on the line, has said it can only run one train an hour for 75 people due to a shortage of diesel-powered stock.
But the answer to the problem could lie locally after the council visited Stratford-upon-Avon-based Vivarail.
The firm, which fits out old London tube trains and converts them to diesel power, believes its trains would provide an economic and environmentally friendly solution.
Coun Rachel Lancaster, cabinet member for public services, and Coun Kevin Maton, cabinet member for business, visited the firm at the end of last week.
Interestingly, they were accompanied by officials from the government’s Department for Transport - despite the department’s recent insistence that it would not get directly involved in the Ricoh Arena problem.
Coun Lancaster said: “The driver for the economic plan was to get people to and from work. This looks like a very good option as London Midland can lease them at busy times.
“We have a lovely station there that it has taken 10 years to get built and we want it to be used to its full potential.”
She added: “We won’t purchase them or lease the trains, that’s not our job. We are working with London Midland and Wasps.”

If the trains are purchased or leased by London Midland or Wasps, supporters will still face a delay until a matchday service can run as the first trains are not due to be rolled out until Spring next year.
Once operational, a three-carriage unit will cost about £1.9million to buy, but chartering them for individual events would be a more likely option.
The trains are built for short journeys and have no seats, but that means they are lighter and could complete journeys quicker. A three-carriage unit could carry up to 350 people and the council believes up to three services an hour could be run during matchdays or major events at the Ricoh Arena.
Coun Lancaster added: “I hope this is the solution, and I would hope London Midland are aware of it. Fingers crossed.”
Francis Thomas, from London Midland, said the operators would not rule Vivarail out as a long term answer to matchday and event travel problems at the Ricoh Arena.
He added: “My understanding is that it’s very early days for Vivarail, I don’t think they have a full size working vehicle yet.
“It’s not something that could be put into service as soon as the station opens, but we remain open to all solutions for matchday and event travel at the Ricoh Arena.
“In the meantime, we remain committed to working with the Ricoh Arena owners to find a solution.”

 

[Class 170101]

Perhaps not as daft an idea as it looks.

 

[HLE]

Still going to need a crossover put in place which won't come cheap.

 

[HLE]

Well Monday morning should finally see the dogbox stopping at the two new stations.

If this weeks peak time loadings are anything to go by then any extra passengers generated by the two new stations will find it hard pushed to find a space to stand, let alone a seat.....