Passengers detrain themselves in Bristol area (26/09)

[HowardGWR]

In this article, I can get no sense whatsoever of what is supposed to have occurred, 200 people getting out at Redland? !!!

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Extrem...top-Bristol/story-27883469-detail/story.html?

"SCORES of reckless rail passengers risked their lives by halting a train and walking along the track.

A group of disgruntled rail users decided to pull the emergency stop cord after hearing the 2.35pm First Great Western service from Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads would not stop at Redland station on Saturday.

Network Rail said that passengers were told that the station was too busy to stop at.

Angry at this change to the timetable, an unknown passenger halted the train a short distance out of Clifton Down station."

Anybody have a clue about this?

 

[cf111]

"British Transport Police (BTP) officers were called to the scene and helped escort passengers off the line."

Sadly I'm assuming not in handcuffs.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Regardless of what happened obviously the passengers are in the wrong and really should be dealt with by the law (as they did break it!). But surely something else must have happened?

Montpelier station (the next stop after Redland) is less than a 10 minute walk away from Redland station, so surely the guard who announced that the train would no longer stop at Redland would have said for people to alight at Montpelier instead and walk?

And looking at Real Time Trains, the service was disrupted just after Clifton Down. Surely the skipping of Redland should have been announced before departing Clifton, so anyone who wanted to could have got off the train?

 

[TheNewNo2]

Anybody have a clue about this?

Clearly none of the people on the track...

 

[D1009]

Well I have no idea why on a Saturday afternoon there should have been that number of people on the train in the first place, never mind them wanting to alight at Redland. What on earth was going on there?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Once the signaller got wind of what was happening would all trains in that area of the line have been ordered to stop?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Well I have no idea why on a Saturday afternoon there should have been that number of people on the train in the first place, never mind them wanting to alight at Redland. What on earth was going on there?

Not sure if anything else was going on in Bristol but it is around the time students move in so could have been something to do with that (though I would have expected issues going from temple meads to Redland not from Avonmouth to Redland) if it was that.

 

[richw]

Google search with the terms Redlands Bristol 26/9/15 shows a Greenpeace event at Redlands on Saturday. Clicking on the link past events are removed from the website so further details cant be seen

 

[Groningen]

Eh sorry; but are the customers for the railways or otherwise. What should the travellers have done; going to the next station where they do not want to be. Were there busses at Montpelier to bring them to their final destination? Sorry, it is the trainoperators fault! Looking on Google Streetview i see that the approach of the station on South Road is at the maximum 4 meters wide.

 

[bengley]

I can't help but think egress handles should not be available for passengers to use so easily. This sort of thing happens quite a lot (more than it should).

Underground trains manage okay without the handles.

 

[Mojo]

Eh sorry; but are the customers for the railways or otherwise. What should the travellers have done; going to the next station where they do not want to be. Were there busses at Montpelier to bring them to their final destination? Sorry, it is the trainoperators fault! Looking on Google Streetview i see that the approach of the station on South Road is at the maximum 4 meters wide.

To drive a bus from Montpelier to Redland involves negotiating four sets of traffic lights, a give way sign and a mini roundabout. It would be quicker to walk. As seen below, I don't think anyone actually wanted to go to Redland anyway!

It is interesting though; have never heard of a train non-stopping in such circumstances before on the Severn Beach Line and Redland used to be my local station!

Also doesn't make sense in that the train was non-stopping Redland station yet the text and picture shows customers walking back towards Clifton. If they wanted to go to Redland surely they would have been walking in the other direction?

Edit: According to this article, the train appeared to have been stalled between Clifton & Redland (probably at the signal awaiting to go on the single line) http://epigram.org.uk/news/2015/09/chaos-on-train-to-tokyo-world

 

[greatkingrat]

Appears to be students travelling to a music festival near Stapleton Road.

http://epigram.org.uk/news/2015/09/chaos-on-train-to-tokyo-world

Chaos ensued between Clifton Down and Redland Station yesterday as students travelling to Tokyo World pulled the emergency alarm to escape a severely overcrowded train.

Students were forced to jump from the train and walk along the tracks in order to get back to the platform.

The incident occurred on the 14:48 train to Stapleton Road, as students traveled to attend the popular music festival Tokyo World. An estimated 150 to 200 students attempted to get on-board the two-carriage train at Clifton Down station, which was then kept waiting at the station for approximately fifteen minutes.

The train eventually left the platform, only to be stopped between Clifton Down and Redland stations for approximately twenty-five minutes due to further overcrowding at Redland Station.

 

[PHILIPE]

A few more details in regard to this incident and the Tokyo World Festival:-

Severn Beach line was suspended today for 3 hours. The service had been picking up delays all day due to big loadings with an event in Eastville Park near Stapleton Road. 1434 ex BRI reported large crowds at Redland and Montpelier awaiting the down train. The down train (wedged) had moved up to the head of the loop after the Clifton Down stop when a decision was relayed not to call at Redland and Montpelier and an appropriate announcement made..............

The Redland and Montpelier mongrels decided to pull pass coms and break egresses and walk back to Clifton

 

[WelshBluebird]

Eh sorry; but are the customers for the railways or otherwise. What should the travellers have done; going to the next station where they do not want to be. Were there busses at Montpelier to bring them to their final destination? Sorry, it is the trainoperators fault! Looking on Google Streetview i see that the approach of the station on South Road is at the maximum 4 meters wide.

Not sure if this is serious or not, but its a matter of a ten minute walk, if that. So yes they should have gone to the next station.
Although as I said I would be interested to know a bit more detail about why the train couldn't stop and why it wasn't announced at Clifton Down giving people to change to leave the train there (again, around a ten minute walk).

edit - if the decision was made after Clifton Down and Montpelier was to be skipped too, this does make a bit more sense. Still bloody idiots though.

 

[Parallel]

On a different note, two different notices today about "emergency services dealing with an incident" - One in the morning between Bristol and Bath, and one this afternoon between Bath and Westbury (I think?). FGW/GWR replied to tweets saying they weren't prepared to go into details. Not sure what the issues were, RTT suggested someone was hit by a train this morning.

 

[WelshBluebird]

On a different note, two different notices today about "emergency services dealing with an incident" - One in the morning between Bristol and Bath, and one this afternoon between Bath and Westbury (I think?). FGW/GWR replied to tweets saying they weren't prepared to go into details. Not sure what the issues were, RTT suggested someone was hit by a train this morning.

From local news it appeared to me that both incidents were infact the same (GWR were tweeting saying an incident between Westbury and Bristol this afternoon) and was to do with a body being found near the line around Salford. Haven't seen any further information though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't help but think egress handles should not be available for passengers to use so easily.

It's frowned upon, possibly illegal, to lock people in trains[1]. Think Quintinshill.

Underground trains manage okay without the handles.

The side doors are mostly no use for evacuation because the tunnels are too narrow. There is a path out via the cab end doors which can be reached via a break-glass. So it's a bit different.

[1] Merseyrail units didn't used to have egress handles, though, they were retrofitted in about 2000. So maybe there were exceptions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

edit - if the decision was made after Clifton Down and Montpelier was to be skipped too, this does make a bit more sense. Still bloody idiots though.

If the decision had been made and passengers had been offered buses/taxis on arrival at the relevant station (were they?), they might well not have taken this action.

 

[PHILIPE]

Not sure if this is serious or not, but its a matter of a ten minute walk, if that. So yes they should have gone to the next station.
Although as I said I would be interested to know a bit more detail about why the train couldn't stop and why it wasn't announced at Clifton Down giving people to change to leave the train there (again, around a ten minute walk).

edit - if the decision was made after Clifton Down and Montpelier was to be skipped too, this does make a bit more sense. Still bloody idiots though.

Because it had left the station at Clifton Down and had drawn up the Loop to cross the Up train when the decision not to call was made. GWR provided 3 different explanations at different times:-

(1) Overcrowding due to Concert.
(2) Police Incident
(3) Emergency services dealing with incident.

 

[Mojo]

The Redland and Montpelier mongrels decided to pull pass coms and break egresses and walk back to Clifton

Looking at the pictures, I would speculate (yes, I know!) that it was not customers wishing to alight at Redland or Montpelier, but those that were unhappy about being on a crowded, stationary train.

 

[Parallel]

It is interesting though; have never heard of a train non-stopping in such circumstances before on the Severn Beach Line and Redland used to be my local station!

I've only ever heard of stations being skipped due to delays once on the line. It was a few months ago, a Saturday service - Delays were snowballing along the line according to Bristol TM's CIS boards. A Severn Beach service was capped at Clifton Down as it was running about 40 minutes late, and then the following Avonmouth service was advertised as being "Non-stop to Clifton" at Bristol.

 

[PHILIPE]

Looking at the pictures, I would speculate (yes, I know!) that it was not customers wishing to alight at Redland or Montpelier, but those that were unhappy about being on a crowded, stationary train.

Pardon me mentioning this but I have noticed posters, like TOCs, using customers more rather than passengers. I think that it is the context which should decide and in this context the word passengers would have been more appropriate. When buying your ticket - customer. When actually travelling - passenger.

 

[cadder toad]

Not a good idea to lock people in trains, more recently than Quintinshill, what about the Taunton sleeping car fire?

 

[bengley]

There must be a smarter way of doing it, perhaps by only allowing the handles to be pulled in the event of an emergency being detected (much like an airbag in a car) or if smoke detectors detect smoke?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There must be a smarter way of doing it, perhaps by only allowing the handles to be pulled in the event of an emergency being detected (much like an airbag in a car) or if smoke detectors detect smoke?

You don't want failure points on emergency systems. They need to be simple mechanical systems.

Better to have the *very occasional* disruption of this nature than people being killed because they can't escape a burning train.

 

[Henbury Loop]

Well this comes as news to me, Severn Beach is my local station (well Pilning actually, but we don't talk about that:roll.

I know the Severn Beach line is one of the success stories re: passenger growth, but crikey!

 

[CC 72100]

From local news it appeared to me that both incidents were infact the same (GWR were tweeting saying an incident between Westbury and Bristol this afternoon) and was to do with a body being found near the line around Salford. Haven't seen any further information though.

Only once incident (Bristol - Bath) but repercussions on service all the way between Bristol & Westbury.

 

[bengley]

You don't want failure points on emergency systems. They need to be simple mechanical systems.

Better to have the *very occasional* disruption of this nature than people being killed because they can't escape a burning train.

What about a system which notifies the driver that the handle has been pulled and the driver can override it - if he doesn't override within 3 seconds, it unlocks the door?

 

[cf111]

What about a system which notifies the driver that the handle has been pulled and the driver can override it - if he doesn't override within 3 seconds, it unlocks the door?

That adds a level of complexity to what requires to be a very simple system - button pressed/lever pulled, doors release - three seconds is a lot of time in a worst case scenario.

 

[Parallel]

There must be a smarter way of doing it, perhaps by only allowing the handles to be pulled in the event of an emergency being detected (much like an airbag in a car) or if smoke detectors detect smoke?

I think the problem is, is that passengers will always find a way to get off if they really want to. I've seen a passenger pull the doors apart on a 150 before when the train was stationary.

What looks to have happened is the train was already SEVERELY overcrowded, and the next station, Redland station was overcrowded with people who were waiting to board the rammed train. Not sure why the train was stopped for 40 minutes in total (the 15 mins at Clifton suggests waiting for a train to pass, or possibly due to the overcrowding?) and then 25 minutes a short distance down the track (possibly either waiting for the train to pass or a message from control because Redland station was unsafe due to the volume of people near the edge of the platform - is there CCTV there?)

A third-year Computer Scientist told Epigram that ‘No one knew what was going on, the driver made an announcement over the tannoy but no one could really hear it.’

The initially jovial atmosphere turned to fear as students inside the severely overcrowded train began to panic and chant ‘Let us off, let us off!’

Describing her experience on-board the train, a third-year History student told Epigram, ‘It was awful, I was trapped in the corner. I’m claustrophobic so I started panicking and I felt like I couldn’t breathe. People around us were shouting to the guys nearest to the window to smash it open.’

One student jumped into the overhead luggage storage shelf to avoid the mass of people.

The emergency alarm was then pulled, and students jumped a metre from the train onto the tracks. A female student was seen lying by the side of the track after fainting and having a panic attack on-board the train.

http://epigram.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/soer-1-670x320.jpg
http://epigram.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/train-2-001.jpg
(Pictures from Epigram article)

 

[strowger]

Deleted