Borders Railway - Now Open

[railjock]

I think the main issue is Hardengreen Viaduct which is new built and definitely single track. I will be going to Tweedbank later today though so will have a look for any other problems.

Newbattle viaduct is also single track. I was at a crag talk where the NR speaker said that to allow double track given current H&s rules would be prohibitive. If it had been in continuous use as a railway it wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[92002]

Newbattle viaduct is also single track. I was at a crag talk where the NR speaker said that to allow double track given current H&s rules would be prohibitive. If it had been in continuous use as a railway it wouldn't have been an issue.

One possible solution may be to open up the Southern end of the line. Which would allow passenger services from Langholm to Carlisle. As well as allowing timber trains from Keilder to the rail network. Most timber heads to Chirk in any case. So no need for a link Northwards.

I tend to agree however that the bit from Hawick to Carlisle just plainly does not make sense. Let alone add up financially.

 

[Altnabreac]

Newbattle viaduct is also single track. I was at a crag talk where the NR speaker said that to allow double track given current H&s rules would be prohibitive. If it had been in continuous use as a railway it wouldn't have been an issue.

Yep. Having travelled over the line yesterday I suspect you'd also have difficulty laying modern standard double track over Lothianbridge Viaduct as well.

I suspect if you decided to run 4tph to Gorebridge then you would double track Shawfair to Portobello and also Newtongrange to Gorebridge.

That would give you a fair amount of extra double track capacity without having to tackle the trickier structures which are all between the Bypass and Newtongrange.

 

[clc]

Yep. Having travelled over the line yesterday I suspect you'd also have difficulty laying modern standard double track over Lothianbridge Viaduct as well.

I suspect if you decided to run 4tph to Gorebridge then you would double track Shawfair to Portobello and also Newtongrange to Gorebridge.

That would give you a fair amount of extra double track capacity without having to tackle the trickier structures which are all between the Bypass and Newtongrange.

It's good to know it wouldn't be necessary to rebuild any new structures in order to run 4tph to Gorebridge.

However, if frequency to Gorebridge was increased would that impact on proposals to reopen the Penicuik line? Is there capacity for both?

 

[railjock]

It's good to know it wouldn't be necessary to rebuild any new structures in order to run 4tph to Gorebridge.

However, if frequency to Gorebridge was increased would that impact on proposals to reopen the Penicuik line? Is there capacity for both?

Can't see a heavy rail line to Penicuik ever being viable. Both routes ( via bonnyrigg or loanhead ) have big obstacles now. Then there are the east side of Edinburgh capacity issues you mention. These will get worse I would expect if a Berwick stopping service starts as well.

 

[HowardGWR]

One possible solution may be to open up the Southern end of the line. Which would allow passenger services from Langholm to Carlisle. As well as allowing timber trains from Keilder to the rail network. Most timber heads to Chirk in any case. So no need for a link Northwards.

I tend to agree however that the bit from Hawick to Carlisle just plainly does not make sense. Let alone add up financially.

Aha, so I did not dream it, thanks, not losing it quite yet, thank goodness.

 

[Zoidberg]

It's busy on the service today according to a Tweet from the @NRE_ScotRail account:

Due to overcrowding between Edinburgh and Tweedbank delays of up to 15 minutes can be expected.

1:33pm - 14 Oct 15

 

[oldman]

Half-term and service gaps because of the steam service, I suppose.

 

[Class 170101]

So you propose upgrading the branch line to a trunk root?

Your joke leaves a lot to be desired :P

 

[Starmill]

Why does Gorebridge to Fountainhall feel like you're wading through treacle?

 

[Altnabreac]

Why does Gorebridge to Fountainhall feel like you're wading through treacle?

6 miles steep uphill, 4 of which are at 1 in 70 .
https://wrha2.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/grad2.jpg

 

[ian1944]

Your joke leaves a lot to be desired :P

Elm just waiting for some references to elder statesmen, ash on the track from the steam service and similar joaks. If I seek a more serious approach, when will I cedar results?

 

[mrmartin]

Half-term and service gaps because of the steam service, I suppose.

So frustrating. I posted earlier before the launch that the steam service shouldn't affect the real job of the railway - providing an essential link to employment, education in Edinburgh to a wider area. The tourist specials are secondary.

It's basically taken the railway down with extra cancellations, rail replacement, etc, I don't really understand how much more of a negative effect it could be having. Get rid of them.

 

[edwin_m]

Elm just waiting for some references to elder statesmen, ash on the track from the steam service and similar joaks. If I seek a more serious approach, when will I cedar results?

This is acorn-y thread. Pine-ing for something different won't help. Best turn over a new leaf.

 

[route:oxford]

So frustrating. I posted earlier before the launch that the steam service shouldn't affect the real job of the railway - providing an essential link to employment, education in Edinburgh to a wider area. The tourist specials are secondary.

It's basically taken the railway down with extra cancellations, rail replacement, etc, I don't really understand how much more of a negative effect it could be having. Get rid of them.

Certainly lessons learned for other areas when they are hoping to reopen lines.

Expect considerably higher passenger usage from the outset...

Don't offer a steam service as demand will exceed supply.

 

[overthewater]

No one in their wildest dreams could have EVER believe the overcrowding and deleys this quick in to the opening of a new line. So even if the numbers are reduced it still going to be pretty good.

 

[47802]

So frustrating. I posted earlier before the launch that the steam service shouldn't affect the real job of the railway - providing an essential link to employment, education in Edinburgh to a wider area. The tourist specials are secondary.

It's basically taken the railway down with extra cancellations, rail replacement, etc, I don't really understand how much more of a negative effect it could be having. Get rid of them.

Isn't attracting tourists part of the remit of the new line, and of course no Tourists will be using the Normal Service trains will they?

The line is still in the novelty phase at present maybe in a years time the line and the area will be glad of the Tourists using the route.

Of course the ideal solution would have been for the line to have enough capacity on weekdays to run additional trains without cancelling scheduled trains but obviously there is a budget to meet.

 

[Pinza-C55]

No one in their wildest dreams could have EVER believe the overcrowding and deleys this quick in to the opening of a new line. So even if the numbers are reduced it still going to be pretty good.

And you have to wonder, despite the naysayers here, whether if it was reopened to Hawick or even further south if that pattern would be repeated ?
Then they might say "OK it is overcrowded as a single line Edinburgh to Carlisle but you watch if it goes double track !".

 

[najaB]

And you have to wonder, despite the naysayers here, whether if it was reopened to Hawick or even further south if that pattern would be repeated ?
Then they might say "OK it is overcrowded as a single line Edinburgh to Carlisle but you watch if it goes double track !".

Hawick, yes. Carlisle, no. As pointed out up-thread by Altnabreac, it is a lot of line with no population to support it and much faster alternatives available.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Hawick, yes. Carlisle, no. As pointed out up-thread by Altnabreac, it is a lot of line with no population to support it and much faster alternatives available.

And feasibility studies are often wrong. While Altnabreac may be the UK equivalent of the Oracle I doubt that he is infallible.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Do Abelio get penalised in any way if the regular trains are delayed by steam specials?

 

[47802]

And you have to wonder, despite the naysayers here, whether if it was reopened to Hawick or even further south if that pattern would be repeated ?
Then they might say "OK it is overcrowded as a single line Edinburgh to Carlisle but you watch if it goes double track !".

Loading at the moment while welcome are fairly meaningless, you need to see what they are like in 6 months time

 

[route:oxford]

Isn't attracting tourists part of the remit of the new line, and of course no Tourists will be using the Normal Service trains will they?

The line is still in the novelty phase at present maybe in a years time the line and the area will be glad of the Tourists using the route.

Of course the ideal solution would have been for the line to have enough capacity on weekdays to run additional trains without cancelling scheduled trains but obviously there is a budget to meet.

Will that be after the summer tourist season when people realise they can leave their car in the borders, book into a borders hotel, and still be a short distance from Edinburgh by train?

Border Hotel bookings for next August already for the Fringe?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Loading at the moment while welcome are fairly meaningless, you need to see what they are like in 6 months time

Save this to your favourites then and see you in 6 months.

 

[najaB]

And feasibility studies are often wrong. While Altnabreac may be the UK equivalent of the Oracle I doubt that he is infallible.

I don't think he is infallible, but it is very hard to find flaws in his logic.

 

[Daz9284]

Do Abelio get penalised in any way if the regular trains are delayed by steam specials?

Do Abelio get penalised if the steam traisn are delayed by the regular services? will they cancel each other out since Abelio run both services (well with Lochty Railway Company, DBS and SRPS).

regards,
Darryl

 

[Pinza-C55]

I don't think he is infallible, but it is very hard to find flaws in his logic.

Because you cannot find flaws in someone's argument or they are more eloquent than you does not mean that they are right.

 

[Altnabreac]

Because you cannot find flaws in someone's argument or they are more eloquent than you does not mean that they are right.

True. However in this particular case I am both infallible and right.

Anyone who doubts me need merely spend an afternoon in Newcastleton and the demand for the line will be clear!

(Incidentally I thoroughly recommend the Liddesdale Hotel should anyone wish to take up my offer. Make sure to go and enjoy the excellent Mountain Biking before you do your demand estimates.)

Sadly there just isn't population, journey demand or employment demand to justify any south of Hawick reopening. This should not discourage people from agitating for an extension to Hawick to be considered though. A case can be made here.

 

[overthewater]

Will that be after the summer tourist season when people realise they can leave their car in the borders, book into a borders hotel, and still be a short distance from Edinburgh by train?

Border Hotel bookings for next August already for the Fringe?

Maybe within Mid lothian but not the borders, its still 55mins away, Heck the bus is only 15mins slower.

 

[Tobbes]

True. However in this particular case I am both infallible and right.

Well played, Sir...

Sadly there just isn't population, journey demand or employment demand to justify any south of Hawick reopening. This should not discourage people from agitating for an extension to Hawick to be considered though. A case can be made here.

Yes. And the other thing to remember is that even, e.g., if the WCML is going to be hard for freight paths in 2035 (I've no idea), an extension of HS2 all the way to Scotland is in my view politically inevitable, meaning that there will be loads of capacity on the WCML once all of the intercity services migrate. So, sadly, the idea of the full Waverley reinstated for freight paths to the Central Belt also seems unlikely (and the gradients aren't brilliant, either....)

Tobbes