Two new stations: Bermuda Park and Coventry (previously Ricoh) Arena

[HLE]

....or are they just purposely doing it to delay the opening of the stations?

With what is now going on at the Arena station (ie nothing much) the last sentence is starting to make sense.

 

[OwlMan]

£17 Return Coventry - Coventry Arena for charter trains

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/revealed-ricoh-arena-matchday-train-10306710

Revealed: Ricoh Arena matchday train ticket would cost fans £17!
05:45, 22 Oct 2015
By Simon Gilbert

Railway station unlikely to open this year - while a matchday service won't be in operation until December 2017 at the earliest.Hopes of a short-term solution to the Ricoh Arena railway station fiasco appear to have been derailed after it emerged fans could be forced to fork out £17 for a train ticket. The £3.4million publicly-funded Arena Park station was originally scheduled to open in June, but it has been hit by a series of delays and is now unlikely to open this year. In August, the Telegraph revealed that when the station does open it will not be allowed to operate during Coventry City FC or Wasps matches due to safety fears as train operators London Midland could only run a one-carriage service for 75 people every hour - blaming a shortage of diesel trains. The issue is such an embarrassment that Coventry City Council’s scrutiny committee grilled the officials involved on Wednesday.
Story Link Ricoh Arena Station: Decision to ban Coventry City and Wasps fans from using it signed off by council-headed group The committee heard that there were hopes six-carriage trains could be chartered to run every half-an-hour during weekends to service sports fans. But it has emerged any operator would likely have to charge about £17 for a return ticket in order to make the service financially viable.
Richard Brooks, commercial director at London Midland, said: “It is feasible that six-carriage charter trains could run every half an hour between the Ricoh Arena and Coventry on matchdays.
“But at the standard £2.40 fare, it’s not going to wash its face. It’s not going to be financially viable.” He added: “You would have to multiply the day return fare six or seven fold.”
General views of the new platform being built at Arena Park, Coventry. It is due to be completed in June.
That would mean a fare of £16.80 for an eight-mile return journey, compared to the £5 fans are currently charged for a matchday bus ticket which allows travel across the city.
Stadium operator Wasps could have decided to run charter trains in the hope of recouping their money. But the commercial incentive for them to do so is reduced further by the fact Wasps’ profit from matchday car parking at the Ricoh Arena, which is priced at about £10.
The station has capacity to handle 3,000 passengers which would mean a six-carriage train would need to make six journeys over three hours to clear the crowds.
It was also made clear that there is no capacity on the existing network for extra trains on weekdays, above the current hourly one-carriage service between Coventry and Nuneaton, until scheduled improvement work at Coventry station is completed in 2017.
Mr Brooks added that it would “realistically” be December 2017 before diesel stock became available and allowed an increase. That’s when Great Western, Walsall and Rugeley electrification projects are due to be completed.
Scrutiny committee member Coun John Mutton said: “If I was looking at this as a member of the public I would be thinking there’s a lot of excuses but when are we going to get it?
“This has been going on since 2003. Who has the keys? Someone must have them to hand them over so we can all stop looking like bloody idiots.”
It was also revealed that the Ricoh Arena station is unlikely to be opened until next year after officials admitted necessary paperwork in order for the keys to the council-owned station to be handed over had not yet been completed by any of the parties.
Colin Knight, assistant director of transport at the council said: “I’m nervous about giving an exact date, we have seen dates come and go.
“We would have to say early in the new year, that’s not to say it couldn’t be before.”
The scrutiny committee recommended that all parties completed the necessary paperwork immediately in a bid to get the new station open as soon as possible.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's not really saying that they are going to charge £17 for a ticket though is it?

It's saying that it's just not worth running a charter train because the company would be unable to recoup their costs. Clearly the local media are trying to shame everybody involved in this farce to pull their fingers out and at some point I hope it works.

 

[wellwhatitis]

I think this whole fiasco sums up exactly what is wrong with our political system and transport infrastructure. Look at all the parties involved, the different origins of funding and ownership, layer upon layer of administration, procurement, construction, contractual responsibility. No joined up thinking and various different Project Managers all working to different unrelated targets.

This could well end up before a committee at Westminster and should be promoted as a case study in how and why the way we do this stuff should be changed.

How much public money has been/is being/will be thrown down the drain over the next 24 months while this lot gathers dust and is effectively moth balled?

 

[nuneatonmark]

Is this a typical delay of projects of this nature? I get the impression that the problem here is an incompetent Coventry City Council, who are (mis)leading the project and not much better from Warwickshire CC.

And these are the people we trust to run our public services! Total numpties!

 

[HLE]

I love the quote 'making us look a bunch of bloody idiots'

How true.

So the paperwork to hand it over hasn't even been started? I know for a fact that one of the project managers is only doing 2/3 days a week. Hmm....

So what exactly does this paperwork entail? And why for the last two months since the station was completed hasn't it been started.

I'll be controversial now and actually say what I think is going on: Coventry City Council are/were using a variety of excuses to explain why the project was being delayed. They were all poppycock - as some of those organisations in question were contacted and quite quickly said they'd done their bit and were happy etc.

Deliberate delaying tactics to cover their own agenda : they don't want to open the stations yet.

As I said last night : if they worked in the private sector they'd be sacked.



*not one for disclaimers but this post is wholly my own opinion and certainly won't be the same as my employer's.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps "Procrastination Park" might be a better name for Bermuda Park when opened with an official plaque affixed on the station giving the full history for the delay in the station opening...

 

[thenorthern]

Just seen this on BBC Sport.

New Coventry City managing director Chris Anderson says they have located a site to build a potential new home in the city and end the Sky Blues' current tenancy arrangement at the Ricoh Arena.

But he has also arranged to sit down and talk to City's landlords Wasps about the football club's existing contract, which expires in August 2016.

"There's ongoing work on a stadium, as an alternative to the Ricoh," he said.

"We've made very good progress in the last few weeks on tying things down."

"The mistake that's been made in the past is to make people think that it's imminent," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire. "That heightened expectations to such a point that was unrealistic. We will not make the mistake of announcing things that are not ready to be announced."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/footba..._the_day&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport

Obviously its about the football mostly and not the troubled Coventry Arena railway station but given that the station construction was delayed because of concerns that Coventry City's future at the Ricoh Arena as in 2013 they started playing at Sixfields Stadium in Northampton because of a rent dispute although after a season they moved back to Coventry.

Anyway could this affect the finished but unopened Coventry Arena station?

Would it mean that the station is largely worthless as there would only be rugby matches at the Ricoh Arena? Or would it mean that the station may finally open?

 

[Tetchytyke]

SISU keep threatening it, they've been doing it for years, but the chances of ever getting planning permission for another stadium within the city of Coventry are pretty much nil.

Given that the station cannot open on match days for Wasps as well as Coventry City, it probably won't make the blindest bit of difference.

 

[swt_passenger]

The station was not planned or built solely for the stadium.

Such a station would never achieve a positive business case. As the previous poster has pointed out, the station would still be worthwhile in the absence of the football team.

 

[fgwrich]

The station was not planned or built solely for the stadium.

Such a station would never achieve a positive business case. As the previous poster has pointed out, the station would still be worthwhile in the absence of the football team.

Agreed.

But Football isn't the popular only sport within the UK, especially in a Rugby world cup year. Wasps may have had their ups and downs, but are still doing rather well within the top flight Aviva Premiership - and will still continue to attract their fans and travelling away fans to the Ricoh - Probably filling it more than Coventry will on many occasions, including local derby's with Northampton Saints / Leicester Tigers & Worcester Warriors - let alone with European fans coming in from the Challenge Cup.

The station wasn't just built for the stadium, but even with a loss of Coventry City I can still see it being a busy station when it (eventually!) opens.

 

[Hornet]

let alone with European fans coming in from the Challenge Cup.

That will be walk overs for us, Bath and Toulon then. Not worth booking flights and rail travel (to Coventry, I always bus it to Foleshill), if they are not prepared to play us in the Champions Cup.

 

[thenorthern]

With Coventry City I think there have discussed building a new stadium in the ironically named District of Rugby just outside Coventry City Council's area.

Has there been any other announcements with Coventry Arena station?

 

[HLE]

Ah no it won't affect it. The retail park opposite should bring in a few.

No more announcements, but as somebody posted on here an almighty c**k up has been made with the Bermuda Park station - part of the planning consent was that a mini roundabout should have been constructed before the station could open. A planning application was submitted in October and will go before the regulatory council on the 11th of December.

I'm guessing they don't want to open the arena station until the Bermuda park station is ready to be opened.

 

[GazUk]

With Coventry City I think there have discussed building a new stadium in the ironically named District of Rugby just outside Coventry City Council's area.

Has there been any other announcements with Coventry Arena station?

I did read a report in the last few days in the local media that the station is ready to function but Either Centro,Coventry City Council, London Midland or all 3 of them are delaying the process.
And i am sure there was a thread on here discussing the (lack of) progress on the Cov to NUN route and the main things i got from that was something to do with trains not being able to call at the Arena park on match days and the lack of available rolling stock from LM, which tbh is quite shocking!

Regarding the building of a new ground for the sky blues,that news/rumour/story has been doing the rounds for ages and the Borough of Rugby has a lot of available land close by to Coventry borders to build upon.
I can see it now-CCFC buy the old (Coventry Stadium at Brandon/binley woods and a then once that is announced plans will be revealed to re-open Brandon station

 

[nuneatonmark]

LM are NOT holding it up, I have email evidence to that effect. It's Coventry City Council holding it up with their inability to organise a party in a brewery, missed paperwork it would seem.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Given that the station cannot open on match days for Wasps as well as Coventry City.

I accept that (as another poster says) the station wasn't built purely for the stadium, but why is this, please?

 

[swt_passenger]

I accept that (as another poster says) the station wasn't built purely for the stadium, but why is this, please?

No stock, inadequate frequency, short platform lengths.

 

[HLE]

There is already a long thread on this. LM are NOT holding it up, I have email evidence to that effect. It's Coventry City Council holding it up with their inability to organise a party in a brewery, missed paperwork it would seem.

This.

The biggest kick in the teeth is that one of the project managers for the city council does 2 days per week!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is already a long thread on this. LM are NOT holding it up, I have email evidence to that effect. It's Coventry City Council holding it up with their inability to organise a party in a brewery, missed paperwork it would seem.

Can't be bothered to start it more like.

 

[LesF]

Yes, there have been mistakes, but they don't make any difference to the fact that there are no spare 153's, and CCC consider it unsafe to serve crowds pouring out of the Arena with a single car.
The whole NuCKLe scheme won't make sense until the Coventry bay platform is built to allow a regular 2tph and an extra service for event days, and the trains to run it. We've got what we could afford so far and even though it's frustrating waiting for it all to happen, it's better than the daft Sprint bus that-thinks-it's-a-tram that Coventry's former transport official wanted instead. If that had got the money (£75m) we would not have got the NuCKLe scheme. He died in the noughties and Sprint seemed to die with him, but now Centro are getting excited about Sprint again, even though 3 cities - Leeds, York and Swansea - have all bought Sprint buses then scrapped them.
Rail development will in future be handled by the West Mids Combined Authority, probably via an enlarged Centro, so we will no longer have local councils trying to do rail development with no experience.
So we should be patient, support NuCKLe and keep an eye on progress. Which may be slower than ever given the spending cuts due shortly.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Yes, there have been mistakes, but they don't make any difference to the fact that there are no spare 153's, and CCC consider it unsafe to serve crowds pouring out of the Arena with a single car.
The whole NuCKLe scheme won't make sense until the Coventry bay platform is built to allow a regular 2tph and an extra service for event days, and the trains to run it. We've got what we could afford so far and even though it's frustrating waiting for it all to happen, it's better than the daft Sprint bus that-thinks-it's-a-tram that Coventry's former transport official wanted instead. If that had got the money (£75m) we would not have got the NuCKLe scheme. He died in the noughties and Sprint seemed to die with him, but now Centro are getting excited about Sprint again, even though 3 cities - Leeds, York and Swansea - have all bought Sprint buses then scrapped them.
Rail development will in future be handled by the West Mids Combined Authority, probably via an enlarged Centro, so we will no longer have local councils trying to do rail development with no experience.
So we should be patient, support NuCKLe and keep an eye on progress. Which may be slower than ever given the spending cuts due shortly.

You are being far to kind to the delivery authorities involved. Nuckle has been an unmitigated, total shambles. The people who have run this project shouldn't be allowed to run a tea stall at a fete! The money has been committed for phase 2 but given the record of Coventry City Council, HS2 will be built before they finish it. Had this been properly managed, we would have had the new stations open months ago, a temporary strategy in place for events and a clear timetable for phase 2. It comes down to poor governance and poor project management by Coventry City Council.

 

[The Ham]

You are being far to kind to the delivery authorities involved. Nuckle has been an unmitigated, total shambles. The people who have run this project shouldn't be allowed to run a tea stall at a fete! The money has been committed for phase 2 but given the record of Coventry City Council, HS2 will be built before they finish it. Had this been properly managed, we would have had the new stations open months ago, a temporary strategy in place for events and a clear timetable for phase 2. It comes down to poor governance and poor project management by Coventry City Council.

Weren't Vivarail looking for somewhere to test their class 230's on the main line....

 

[HLE]

Weren't Vivarail looking for somewhere to test their class 230's on the main line....

No thank you !

Rather have a 153.

 

[GazUk]

It's just a shambles really, i think When it comes to local west midlands councils,centro and anything to do with rail or tram tracks progress seems to get so far, with a promising end and then bam! Something (or someone lol) puts the spanner in the works due to the lack of communication!

No stock, inadequate frequency, short platform lengths.

I should know this, but on the Coventry to nuneaton line is it served by 1 Class class 153? And regarding the lack of available stock (not knowing the exact Diesel stock in the Centro region) there are in total of 61 diesel units that LM have across their network,surely they could free up maybe 1 or 2 x2 car units to be used,they can't all be used at the sametime,can they or is it not that simple??

 

[HLE]

Unfortunately no it isn't.

Coventry drivers don't sign any diesels except link 1 which sign 153's - only.

Traction courses alone would take months/years the way things are going.

Apart from the peak services any more than a 153 would be a waste. And you still couldn't make a 170/172 pay on a matchday anyway as it would have to run through to Nuneaton before it could head back to Coventry.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Apart from the peak services any more than a 153 would be a waste.

That's something I'm not so sure about. Yes, it would be a waste at current loadings but are current loadings low because the service is so poor? Connections aren't great at either end and the current frequency isn't enough to tempt people off the roads.

It's not a rural backwater we are talking about here, the combined population of Nuneaton, Bedworth & Coventry is approaching half a million people so who knows, maybe if they build it properly then the people will come?
Just look at what having a decent service has done for patronage at the nearby Trent Valley local stations.

 

[fgwrich]

That will be walk overs for us, Bath and Toulon then. Not worth booking flights and rail travel (to Coventry, I always bus it to Foleshill), if they are not prepared to play us in the Champions Cup.

Doh! Fair enough, I should have remembered being a Chiefs fan that we're in it too! (blame the long week and early starts!)

No thank you !

Rather have a 153.

Fine! But I'd rather have the 230 in this case D Train or not, it would at least bring a capacity increase to this line - as Cherry Picker's post above says, could well be stunted by the current 153 set up. And a small fleet of them could allow the line to not only gain a better frequency, be doubled up and or / allow (if the signaling permits) 1 through 1 short form service which would at least give the boost to the station openings. And having a 230 with 2 or 3 doors would give faster boarding times than a 153 at least!

Not forgetting allowing LM to redeploy the 153s elsewhere as well. Until electrification, I think this is a suitable solution to this line!

 

[The Planner]

Apart from the peak services any more than a 153 would be a waste. And you still couldn't make a 170/172 pay on a matchday anyway as it would have to run through to Nuneaton before it could head back to Coventry.

I thought the crossover was being put in at the up end of the platforms to turn back at Arena?

 

[LesF]

As someone said, the drivers on this route are only trained to drive 153's, and LM are not interested in retraining them for other stock when their franchise is running out.
Sometimes the Cov-Nun service is run with 2 x 153's but that still won't take a match crowd.
Coventry councillors have been photo'd looking at a Vivarail D-train at Long Marston.
153's are called dogboxes by the drivers because of the cabs shoehorned in when the trains were split into single cars. We can do better.
Why does the 153 have to go to Tyseley every night? To clean it? Do it at Coventry. To empty the toilet? You don't need a toilet on a short run. The 360 bus takes 2 hours to circuit Coventry and doesn't have a toilet. There are toilets at Coventry and Nuneaton stations. To refuel? The D-train's Ford Transit engine should run for a week on a tankful.
Re the crossover at the Arena, why? Passengers including football supporters come from Nuneaton as well as Coventry. So send the extended match train all the way. That will help those travelling from further afield.

One of the snags in this saga is the large number of bodies involved: CCC, Warwicks CC, Centro, DfT, NetRail, LM.

 

[HLE]

I thought the crossover was being put in at the up end of the platforms to turn back at Arena?

Judging by how long it's taken to get to the stage we are at now and the shambles the 1st phase of the project has become in the past six months, I'll happily say here and now that I don't expect that crossover to be put in for another 5 years at least.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As someone said, the drivers on this route are only trained to drive 153's, and LM are not interested in retraining them for other stock when their franchise is running out.
Sometimes the Cov-Nun service is run with 2 x 153's but that still won't take a match crowd.
Coventry councillors have been photo'd looking at a Vivarail D-train at Long Marston.
153's are called dogboxes by the drivers because of the cabs shoehorned in when the trains were split into single cars. We can do better.
Why does the 153 have to go to Tyseley every night? To clean it? Do it at Coventry. To empty the toilet? You don't need a toilet on a short run. The 360 bus takes 2 hours to circuit Coventry and doesn't have a toilet. There are toilets at Coventry and Nuneaton stations. To refuel? The D-train's Ford Transit engine should run for a week on a tankful.
Re the crossover at the Arena, why? Passengers including football supporters come from Nuneaton as well as Coventry. So send the extended match train all the way. That will help those travelling from further afield.

One of the snags in this saga is the large number of bodies involved: CCC, Warwicks CC, Centro, DfT, NetRail, LM.

The 153 doesn't go back/get swapped every night, although personally I think the reliability went up dramatically when they started doing it more regularly a few years back.

Why the Ricoh station can't open is beyond me. Bermuda can't open yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's something I'm not so sure about. Yes, it would be a waste at current loadings but are current loadings low because the service is so poor? Connections aren't great at either end and the current frequency isn't enough to tempt people off the roads.

It's not a rural backwater we are talking about here, the combined population of Nuneaton, Bedworth & Coventry is approaching half a million people so who knows, maybe if they build it properly then the people will come?
Just look at what having a decent service has done for patronage at the nearby Trent Valley local stations.

It's surprising how many locals round those areas don't actually know there is a train that takes 20 minutes end to end, who currently get a bus which takes an hour. You're completely right, there are definitely more people who would be able to make use of it than currently do.