Most hated traction

[willbaforceday]

Northern Rail 158s. Better at first, but looking old amd tatty now! Carpets so wrecked that they are sticky with all the disgusting dirt that gets walked in! Awful air con that never works properly and leaks diesel fumes in whilst going through a tunnel. Supposed to be quieter than its predecessors, but I dont notice any real difference in engine noise tbh. And the general bad state that they are in! I was on one that had moss growing on the bottom of the window!

Closely followed by Voyagers. Good at first but showing their age. Ridiculously noisy and rattly engines, lack of leg room and smelly toilets. Not enough carriages for XC services. I always try and get a HST instead now. Says a lot about 40 year old engineering compared with the 15 year old design!
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I dont tend to mind Pacers in general, but the refurbished 144s with higher backed seats are dreadful! No leg room and seats very uncomfortable. Would rather have bus seats on a Pacer any day, instead of the "improved seating."

 

[DaiGog]

With the 450s on Waterloo-Portsmouth I believe it's down to the number of seats that the DfT demand on that route, meaning that 3+2 seating is required to comply with that demand

Yes, you're right, but the units in that configuration are not suited to that sort of work from a comfort perspective.
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Northern Rail 158s. Better at first, but looking old amd tatty now! Carpets so wrecked that they are sticky with all the disgusting dirt that gets walked in! Awful air con that never works properly and leaks diesel fumes in whilst going through a tunnel. Supposed to be quieter than its predecessors, but I dont notice any real difference in engine noise tbh. And the general bad state that they are in! I was on one that had moss growing on the bottom of the window!

A lot of Northern's fleet suffers from the same thing, i.e. a poor quality refresh last time round. I don't doubt that Northern did what they could with the funds available, but the seat covers were falling off within a couple of years, some carpets didn't get replaced, and the general look of the units is shabby with mismatched overhead racks on the 158s, different coloured internal panels on various things, and so on. It all just looks rather unloved now.

The 158s specifically have decent seat cushions since the refresh, so are kinder on the old posterior, but legroom suffered a bit as a result, and the cushions are too thick for the existing armrests, which are now of almost no benefit as they are too low down on the seat frame. The air con has never been any good on 158s, with only SWT ever seeming to get to grips with the problem (N.B. I have only ever travelled on one refurbished EMT 158, which was just as stuffy as ever on a warm day, so whether this is normal for their refurbished units I couldn't say).

 

[FQ]

flying scotsman - one big con of a rebuild...should have painted, plinthed and stood next to Lion....

I hate to say this but...

I fully agree with you. My least favourite kettle for sure. But it isn't worse than a pacer or voyager

 

[RichmondCommu]

I hate to say this but...

I fully agree with you. My least favourite kettle for sure. But it isn't worse than a pacer or voyager

Just out of curiosity Fishquinn why is it your least favorite steam engine?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes, you're right, but the units in that configuration are not suited to that sort of work from a comfort perspective.
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A lot of Northern's fleet suffers from the same thing, i.e. a poor quality refresh last time round. I don't doubt that Northern did what they could with the funds available, but the seat covers were falling off within a couple of years, some carpets didn't get replaced, and the general look of the units is shabby with mismatched overhead racks on the 158s, different coloured internal panels on various things, and so on. It all just looks rather unloved now.

The 158s specifically have decent seat cushions since the refresh, so are kinder on the old posterior, but legroom suffered a bit as a result, and the cushions are too thick for the existing armrests, which are now of almost no benefit as they are too low down on the seat frame. The air con has never been any good on 158s, with only SWT ever seeming to get to grips with the problem (N.B. I have only ever travelled on one refurbished EMT 158, which was just as stuffy as ever on a warm day, so whether this is normal for their refurbished units I couldn't say).

The Northern Spirit TPE sets were refurbished to a good standard, with extra padding on the seats even in standard class. However the only vehicles so treated which still work for Northern are the centre cars of the 3-car units so if ever I'm on one for further than just one stop I'll make a bee-line for there!

 

[FQ]

Just out of curiosity Fishquinn why is it your least favorite steam engine?

It's just the money that's gone into restoring it really. Way too much in my opinion. They should have used it getting 87001 mainline capable and then still have shedloads of money left over!

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's just the money that's gone into restoring it really. Way too much in my opinion. They should have used it getting 87001 mainline capable and then still have shedloads of money left over!

Yes I concur that the Flying Scotsman has cost an awful lot of money to restore but very poor project management on behalf of the NRM didn't really help from what I can gather.

However, I think its fair to say that a restored Flying Scotsman will always bed ten times more popular with the public (rail enthusiasts or not) than a restored electric locomotive and I think that's the attitude that the NRM have adopted.

 

[Mikey C]

Hate is the wrong word, as they do a good job, but the Overground 378s aren't a very pleasant way to travel around, as they're so hard to see out of! The destination display boxes don't help either, taking up a lot of window space. The Underground S stock has much bigger windows and hence is much nicer the travel in and see out of.

And if you do get a seat, as they're (understandably) so near the sides to maximise standing space, it's so easy to bang your head!

 

[smudga331]

I saw this an felt obliged to voice my deep hatred for a class 321. Slow, noisy, uncomfortable, hot in the summer, cold in the winter and I hate the idea of spending more money to travel in First Class so that the only difference I receive is getting the same old dirty napkin over the headrest.....Basically, I pay more to keep their headrests clean!

 

[backontrack]

Why not create a poll?

 

[222ben]

How do you?

 

[DarloRich]

I hate to say this but...

I fully agree with you. My least favourite kettle for sure. But it isn't worse than a pacer or voyager

Yes I concur that the Flying Scotsman has cost an awful lot of money to restore but very poor project management on behalf of the NRM didn't really help from what I can gather.

However, I think its fair to say that a restored Flying Scotsman will always bed ten times more popular with the public (rail enthusiasts or not) than a restored electric locomotive and I think that's the attitude that the NRM have adopted.

With almost every trip this year already sold out I think real people, not spotters, but real everyday people off the streets with no real railway connection like Flying Scotsman.

The NRM will make their money back on Flying Scotsman if it stays servicable. They wont get back the cost of the paint if they fixed up an 87 to run about on the mainline!

 

[Parallel]

The air con has never been any good on 158s, with only SWT ever seeming to get to grips with the problem (N.B. I have only ever travelled on one refurbished EMT 158, which was just as stuffy as ever on a warm day, so whether this is normal for their refurbished units I couldn't say).

Hmm, I'm not sure about this, there were plenty SWT 158s and 159s running around last summer with the windows open. Granted, they didn't see as bad as GWR whereby virtually every 158 had the windows open in at least one carriage - but more often open in two or all three.

 

[sprinterguy]

With almost every trip this year already sold out I think real people, not spotters, but real everyday people off the streets with no real railway connection like Flying Scotsman.

The NRM will make their money back on Flying Scotsman if it stays servicable. They wont get back the cost of the paint if they fixed up an 87 to run about on the mainline!

Exactly. "Flying Scotsman" stands a far greater chance of recouping (at least some of) the cost of the overhaul through the fares charged for railtours it hauls and fees paid by the preserved lines it visits, than it would as a static exhibit in a museum.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Exactly. "Flying Scotsman" stands a far greater chance of recouping (at least some of) the cost of the overhaul through the fares charged for railtours it hauls and fees paid by the preserved lines it visits, than it would as a static exhibit in a museum.

I think the suggestion was that it should never have been overhauled. However I for one certainly do not agree with those sentiments and I'm glad that its back running on the network.

 

[Minilad]

Call me a philistine but I just don't get the Flying Scotsman hype and wibble.
To me it's just another kettle. A kettle that causes mayhem when it runs on the mainline.
I would definitely rather see 87001 running

 

[DarloRich]

Call me a philistine but I just don't get the Flying Scotsman hype and wibble.
To me it's just another kettle. A kettle that causes mayhem when it runs on the mainline.
I would definitely rather see 87001 running

you are a philistine

 

[RichmondCommu]

Call me a philistine but I just don't get the Flying Scotsman hype and wibble.
To me it's just another kettle. A kettle that causes mayhem when it runs on the mainline.
I would definitely rather see 87001 running

I'd like to see a class 13 recreated but I know I'm in the minority. The same goes for 87001; there simply isn't the demand to see it run or enough interest to get it repaired. In my eye's its just another class 87 but there's only one Flying Scotsman!

 

[Minilad]

you are a philistine

I know. And I don't care. I like to swim against the stream

In fact I will say my most hated traction is any kettle! There, I've said it.

 

[sprinterguy]

Call me a philistine but I just don't get the Flying Scotsman hype and wibble.

I don't think all the hype is necessary either, but I suppose that the reason why the loco has become so deeply embedded in the national psyche is all that business to do with the first authenticated 100mph run, and the fact that it shares it's name with a long established, and well publicised, named train that evokes a sense of nostalgia for a perceived golden age.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't think all the hype is necessary either, but I suppose that the reason why the loco has become so deeply embedded in the national psyche is all that business to do with the first authenticated 100mph run, and the fact that it shares it's name with a long established, and well publicised, named train that evokes a sense of nostalgia for a perceived golden age.

Ask a member of the public to name a railway engine and the most frequent reply would probably be Flying Scotsman.

 

[Minilad]

I'd like to see a class 13 recreated but I know I'm in the minority. The same goes for 87001; there simply isn't the demand to see it run or enough interest to get it repaired. In my eye's its just another class 87 but there's only one Flying Scotsman!

But surely the Flying Scotsman is just another of whatever class it is. No better or worse than any of the others if you take away all the romantic wibble

 

[sprinterguy]

But surely the Flying Scotsman is just another of whatever class it is. No better or worse than any of the others if you take away all the romantic wibble

There is only one class A3 remaining though, plus, as I say, "Flying Scotsman" is credited with the first authenticated 100mph run, so hasn't been just another run-of-the-mill A3 for many decades.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But surely the Flying Scotsman is just another of whatever class it is. No better or worse than any of the others if you take away all the romantic wibble

It's the only A3 to have survived. There is at least one class 87 in operation in this country and plenty more overseas.

 

[DarloRich]

But surely the Flying Scotsman is just another of whatever class it is. No better or worse than any of the others if you take away all the romantic wibble

correct - but with an attached "brand" that the public relate to, like, recognise AND will clearly spend vast sums to travel behind. I doubt it is spotters paying £450 a ticket!

 

[Minilad]

correct - but with an attached "brand" that the public relate to, like, recognise AND will clearly spend vast sums to travel behind. I doubt it is spotters paying £450 a ticket!

Oh I get that. It's not a locomotive anymore. It's a commodity, a brand name, a cash cow

 

[RichmondCommu]

correct - but with an attached "brand" that the public relate to, like, recognise AND will clearly spend vast sums to travel behind. I doubt it is spotters paying £450 a ticket!

I'm looking forward to traveling behind it on a preserved line. My wife would go nuts if I told her I'd paid the best part of a Monkey for a train ticket!
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Oh I get that. It's not a locomotive anymore. It's a commodity, a brand name, a cash cow

Exactly, the problem is 87001 isn't any of those things.

 

[sprinterguy]

87001 isn't any of those things.

It's not much use on preserved lines, either.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm looking forward to traveling behind it on a preserved line. My wife would go nuts if I told her I'd paid the best part of a Monkey for a train ticket!

You best book the SVR sharpish then! The NYMR is already sold out.

Oh I get that. It's not a locomotive anymore. It's a commodity, a brand name, a cash cow

Ah but is there not something to be said for taking it to the masses and letting all those people see and experience the excitement of haulage behind such an icon?

Plus you might get some of the milk to fix up your blue box thingy

 

[Minilad]

I'm not for one minute suggesting 87001 is anywhere close to Flying Scotsman in terms of appeal to the wider masses. I am saying that from a personal point of view as a person who grew up, in railway terms, with 87s around every day that 87001 means a lot more to me personally.
Added to that the fact that I have driven it in service then of course it's going to be a lot more relevant to me.