Virgin Azuma unveiled & plans for faster journey times

[DynamicSpirit]

The seats

I hope those pictures are not intended to be very realistic, otherwise there's something seriously wrong... Look where the bottom of the windows is in relation to the heights of the seats. The bottoms of the windows are around the same level as the head-rests on the seats, which rather implies that for anyone who isn't reasonably tall (for example, for children), you'd only be able to see out of the windows by looking upwards. Since that doesn't seem very plausible, I rather suspect those pictures are not remotely accurate, and so can't be taken as any kind of guide to what the interiors will actually be like.

 

[swt_passenger]

I hope those pictures are not intended to be very realistic, otherwise there's something seriously wrong... Look where the bottom of the windows is in relation to the heights of the seats. The bottoms of the windows are around the same level as the head-rests on the seats, which rather implies that for anyone who isn't reasonably tall (for example, for children), you'd only be able to see out of the windows by looking upwards. Since that doesn't seem very plausible, I rather suspect those pictures are not remotely accurate, and so can't be taken as any kind of guide to what the interiors will actually be like.

It's been suggested they are only re-coloured versions of existing artist's impressions that were already inaccurate first time round...

 

[Bletchleyite]

This:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Class_800002_interior.jpg

(sorry it's too big to embed)

is the real interior (give or take the red seat covers). The seats are indeed a bit higher than the rendering. Though I think the seats will be lower in the end vehicles without the engine "hump" I doubt it would be *that* much lower.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder how much scope there is to vary the lighting and use different colours? You can change the ambience very effectively using light, and I expect we'll see more trains using light to improve the atmosphere in the future.

 

[The Ham]

This:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Class_800002_interior.jpg

(sorry it's too big to embed)

is the real interior (give or take the red seat covers). The seats are indeed a bit higher than the rendering. Though I think the seats will be lower in the end vehicles without the engine "hump" I doubt it would be *that* much lower.

Although the windows also run just above the tables whilst those on the rendering are quite a bit higher than the tables.

 

[IanXC]

It's worth mentioning that the first class seats in the 385 mock up are noticeably short...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, they aren't quite as high-back as the current trend. A bit like Class 158 original seats in a way, though more comfortable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although the windows also run just above the tables whilst those on the rendering are quite a bit higher than the tables.

I'd take the link I sent as correct positioning, as it's an actual photograph of inside one of the actual units.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I agree the business market will pay top dollar. BUT the leisure customers, who pay out of their own pocket, can easily decide to drive or fly. When a couple travel first class it is often cheaper for them to drive anyway

All that is very true, but misses the point. The real profit comes from businesspeople on very expensive first class peak tickets, not from leisure passengers upgrading from standard class. TOCs will pay attention to what the business travellers want.

I agree that one 2-table is too few, but if the business demand is for solo seats then a TOC is wise to provide that.

This is the real interior

Very plasticky.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very plasticky.

Not really any more than any other modern unit (the interior is, like the Javelin, a bit Desiro-esque). But the grey is horribly drab - it needs some bright colours like the VT red. With the Pendolino colours (blue and red seats, blue carpet) it would work very well.

Then again, I like bright colours, judging by the amount of magnolia that perpetuates the housing stock I guess most people don't! (I spent a few years eradicating every last bit of magnolia from my house when I bought it).

I do like the wood-effect on the vehicle ends and the tables, though.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The seats are indeed a bit higher than the rendering. Though I think the seats will be lower in the end vehicles without the engine "hump" I doubt it would be *that* much lower.

No, end vehicles (and the non motor intermediate vehicles) only have maybe two inches of difference in seat height relative to window.

This is a photo taken in an end vehicle. http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...of-a-hitachi-at300-class-news-photo/486434854

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, end vehicles (and the non motor intermediate vehicles) only have maybe two inches of difference in seat height relative to window.

This is a photo taken in an end vehicle. http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...of-a-hitachi-at300-class-news-photo/486434854

Cheers. That seems a better photograph in general - the grey is still drab (hopefully the DfT will fold and allow a bit of GWR green; after all, the seat covers tend to need replacing about as often as TOCs change anyway), but not *as* drab.

 

[jon0844]

Not really any more than any other modern unit (the interior is, like the Javelin, a bit Desiro-esque). But the grey is horribly drab - it needs some bright colours like the VT red. With the Pendolino colours (blue and red seats, blue carpet) it would work very well.

Then again, I like bright colours, judging by the amount of magnolia that perpetuates the housing stock I guess most people don't! (I spent a few years eradicating every last bit of magnolia from my house when I bought it).

I do like the wood-effect on the vehicle ends and the tables, though.

This is why some carefully diffused multi-coloured LEDs could improve the cabin through light, which would enable 'mood lighting' at different times of the day. The sort of thing I'd imagine Virgin would be well up for (lighting is certainly now used quite effectively on planes, even coaches).

We paid our house builder extra to not have magnolia in any rooms when we bought our home, but I must admit that humans are weird creatures. The whole 'grass is greener' thing, meaning that having had colours in each room for over ten years, I am now thinking of plain magnolia in the hallway/landing just because it's quite plain... Go figure!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Cheers. That seems a better photograph in general - the grey is still drab (hopefully the DfT will fold and allow a bit of GWR green; after all, the seat covers tend to need replacing about as often as TOCs change anyway), but not *as* drab.

They're fine, quality is good which doesn't come across in some of the noisy pictures with poor colour temperature settings.

There's a bit of a Lexus vibe going on, they're all a bit drab inside too but you're never in any doubt how well specified the parts are and how well it's all bolted together, with IEP the quality will, for many people, make up for the absence of colour.

 

[WildNorthlands]

Does anyone know how many bikes these trains can carry? Thanks for any help!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Does anyone know how many bikes these trains can carry? Thanks for any help!

4 on the 5 car sets, 8 on the 9 car sets, in the 'bike & bulk room'. Bike storage (per the TTS) is planned around a 25 inch frame.

The space is reservable, if it's not reserved, the space can be allocated to luggage use, with fold down shelves. Reservations on FGW HSTs are compulsory from May and already compulsory on VTEC. It'll be interesting to see how it works in practice.

 

[The Ham]

No, end vehicles (and the non motor intermediate vehicles) only have maybe two inches of difference in seat height relative to window.

This is a photo taken in an end vehicle. http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...of-a-hitachi-at300-class-news-photo/486434854

Only 2 inches, some on here will be disappointed they were looking forward to moaning about the steep slope that would have to be negotiated.

By my maths 50mm over (say) 8m is 1 in 160 which is so flat that most people, even those pushing catering trolleys, would hardly notice (it's on a par of gaining 2mm over the length of the long edge of an A3 piece of paper).

 

[Tetchytyke]

This is a photo taken in an end vehicle. http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...of-a-hitachi-at300-class-news-photo/486434854

I'll update my last post: plasticky and the seats are too low for smaller people and children to actually be able to see out of the window.

But I'm sure it will be high quality plastic, just like on the Javelin

 

[Bletchleyite]

The seats are by modern standards quite low-back, and are slightly higher in the vehicles with engines. So I doubt there will be an issue.

If you want appallingly high windows, try a 153 or Mk3 coach.

Edit: compare

- about the same.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I'll update my last post: plasticky and the seats are too low for smaller people and children to actually be able to see out of the window.

They're much the same as first class in an old Mark 2e/f vehicle, and maybe a few mm higher than a Mark 3.

Hitachi and DCA say they based seat height and leg room on average UK height and they'll be very well positioned for the (from memory) 95th percentile of the population.

 

[Furrball]

I wonder why tables for two side per side as per voyagers could not be incorporated to make up for the lack of 1+1 seats

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure it will be high quality plastic, just like on the Javelin

Such high quality that I cut myself on my first trip (I walked through the whole train to have a good look at it), and the TM was initially quite worried I was going to sue!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Such high quality that I cut myself on my first trip (I walked through the whole train to have a good look at it), and the TM was initially quite worried I was going to sue!

There's a few bits on the Class 395 Hitachi aren't entirely happy with, they didn't get the yaw damping right first time, for which some poor engineer is probably living in a hut on a hillside in shame, and there's a few bits of interior trim which they would have liked to have been better assembled, insulated or damped, to eliminate rattles and squeaks.

They're pretty exceptional for the first units Hitachi have operating in the UK though, especially when we consider how crap Bombardier's products continue to be, despite starting with an established product line and developing it continuously.

 

[jimm]

I wonder why tables for two side per side as per voyagers could not be incorporated to make up for the lack of 1+1 seats

Unless Virgin is planning to do something very different from the DfT draft seating plans, then the there are some airline-style pairs of seats in the full first class trailer coach of the nine-car formation.

 

[Furrball]

Unless Virgin is planning to do something very different from the DfT draft seating plans, then the there are some airline-style pairs of seats in the full first class trailer coach of the nine-car formation.

So there are, a couple of them, and only facing forward in one direction of travel.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Regarding the 'couples seats' why can't they just have reversible seats like the old stock in Australia & NZ used to have? You can then choose to have airline or facing. Never understood why this was never the norm on UK railways but was common on 1st generation UK tramways?

Some Japanese Shinkansen sets have seats which spin right around at each end of the journey, but I imagine this might be difficult to do in our restricted loading gauge. It's always puzzled me that these seats seem to be spun at each end as a matter of course, with no option to create facing bays for family groups.

 

[47271]

I don't have a problem with Javelins. If they're the starting point here, we could do a lot worse.

As for 1+1 in First, I travel with work a lot and I'd always choose those seats on VTEC mk3s or mk4s over singles. I'll always be able to carve out more space on a 1+1 table than a folding tray on a single, even with someone sitting opposite me.

I'm sure they've done their research to please the majority, but a reduction in 1+1 capacity doesn't suit me as a business traveller.

 

[TH172341]

The spinning seat system is a great piece of innovation - very lucky myself to have ridden on the E3 Series Shinkhansen (Komachi) and was the best intercity train by a mile to ride!

I've never had a problem with Bombardier products - the only poor build quality I've seen was the buttons issue, now seemingly resolved at LM with the 172s. Miles better than any rattly Sprinter/Pacer!

 

[jayiscupid]

Some Japanese Shinkansen sets have seats which spin right around at each end of the journey, but I imagine this might be difficult to do in our restricted loading gauge. It's always puzzled me that these seats seem to be spun at each end as a matter of course, with no option to create facing bays for family groups.

The seats are turned at the end of each journey to allow people to face the direction of travel. All seats line up with the windows (all are small airplane style individual windows)

The pedal to turn the seats is located under the aisle seat and you are free to spin the seats if you wish to travel as a group of 4. I watched a group do it in Green Class on the N700 to Osaka.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The limiting factor (which is probably why it isn't in the UK) is that the space between the first and third row of seats cannot be narrower than the width of the seat pair.

Does it also work on the 3 side of a 3+2 Shinkansen? If so the legroom there must be excellent.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The limiting factor (which is probably why it isn't in the UK) is that the space between the first and third row of seats cannot be narrower than the width of the seat pair.

Does it also work on the 3 side of a 3+2 Shinkansen? If so the legroom there must be excellent.

The YouTube video I saw that demonstrated it showed 3+2 seating. In said video the seats were spun by staff, which is why I assumed that arranging the seats in bays might be frowned upon- despite backwards facing seats being a bit safer under most circumstances that might arise in the admittedly rare event of a crash. Of course facing bays without tables mean that in the event of a sudden deceleration those facing backwards would get a facefull of the person sitting opposite!