Potential sites for a new Northern DMU depot

[IanXC]

Already been mentioned further up the thread

I do wonder whether Leeds Neville Hill might have additional capacity once the HST's leave.

This is the big unknown on the Yorkshire side. I'm yet to see that Ten Pound Walk will be capable of stabling all the 800/801/802 sets which will finish their day in Yorkshire....

Plus consideration of space for more EMUs for local services, and the new build DMUs.

A choice which hasn't yet come up in the thread is Botanic Gardens. I had a conversation with a Guard confirming they're now doing much more exam work (although I can't remember the letter off hand!) Plus depending on the stock strategy the new Northern Operator chooses, and the combination of routes, it could allow efficiency - if for instance the stock used through Hull doesn't visit Leeds in service. Worth also mentioning that the lack of Stabling in Sheffield has always been a problem...

 

[lincolnshire]

This is the big unknown on the Yorkshire side. I'm yet to see that Ten Pound Walk will be capable of stabling all the 800/801/802 sets which will finish their day in Yorkshire….

The new depot is been built at Ten Pound Walk, but until its finished the amount of stabling space is an unknown, but its a fair area of land all together as we now have nearly a wood of trees between the mainline and the depot and DB didn,t make the best use of the land in later years.

Plus consideration of space for more EMUs for local services, and the new build DMUs.

A choice which hasn't yet come up in the thread is Botanic Gardens. I had a conversation with a Guard confirming they're now doing much more exam work (although I can't remember the letter off hand!) Plus depending on the stock strategy the new Northern Operator chooses, and the combination of routes, it could allow efficiency - if for instance the stock used through Hull doesn't visit Leeds in service. Worth also mentioning that the lack of Stabling in Sheffield has always been a problem...

Botanic Gardens now only has one road for exams as the other road is used for fuelling sets coming into the depot. So money would be needed to be spent to upgrade the set up and now has little storage space on the depot for sets as against its former days. Don,t think its got facilities for emptying toilets tanks and at present I do believe they fuel Hull Trains sets too at night.

Another thing against it is Hull area at present is a Cinderella Railway Area ( if you don,t get there before midnight the signal boxes close for the night )
so you can,t get sets in or out of Hull, you can shunt between depot and station as Paragon Box is continuously manned.If when its resignalled soon maybe? then everything will be a different matter then.

 

[casualobserver]

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/traction-maintenance-depot-buxton-september-2015.t99605

Doesn't look like the depot at Buxton is in a dreadful state based on these images purported to be from September 2015.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/traction-maintenance-depot-buxton-september-2015.t99605

Doesn't look like the depot at Buxton is in a dreadful state based on these images purported to be from September 2015.

In the picture with the words "Neils Pit", there seems to be some degradation to the two concrete uprights. Any ideas as to what may have caused this?

 

[AndyW33]

In the picture with the words "Neils Pit", there seems to be some degradation to the two concrete uprights. Any ideas as to what may have caused this?

Aren't the two uprights part of the stop block for the end of the pit road?
If so, a rough shunt or loco hitting the block would be most likely.

 

[tbtc]

Worth also mentioning that the lack of Stabling in Sheffield has always been a problem...

Good shout. There's not enough space in Sheffield for anything more heavy duty than a carriage wash, so "Sheffield" DMUs have to run ECS along the ECML to Heaton in Newcastle for maintenance.

Since (even after the MML is eventually electrified) there'll be no "Northern" services replaced by EMUs (the wires will only be to/from Derby/ London), the issue of increased depot space for increased passenger numbers on local services round here is going to need addressing at some stage.

There will be some space at Neville Hill in Leeds, when the VTEC/ EMT HSTs leave (with the VTEC facilities moving to Doncaster - presumably the successor to EMT will continue a small base at Leeds for a few years more - the wires aren't going up any time on the MML...), which may help things, but I'd be in favour of a new "Northern" depot at somewhere like Doncaster, served by a number of lines.

I share your concern about whether Doncaster *will* have sufficient capacity for all of the "IEP" stock allocated to it though, which may mean there's not going to be a lot of space for "Provincial" stock to be based there.

Maybe an alternative could be a site in the Rother Valley out near Beighton (which was planned for an HS2 depot?), which would have access to the lines towards Chesterfield/ Rotherham too.

 

[mwmbwls]

Incidentally I've a feeling that someone on this forum reported reading that the disused TMD at Buxton had suffered fire damage. However I do remember Ash Bridge saying that he'd taken the train to Buxton and that he couldn't see any obvious damage but I do wonder what the overall condition of the building is. I read in Railway Magazine that when the new owners took over Crewe Diesel the roof was in a terrible state with bird droppings everywhere.

All of the windows are broken and there is a tidy sized hole in the roof and what looks like asbestos cladding.

Guide Bridge has access to several routes Stockport,Stalybridge,Manchester Piccadilly etc,

 

[Darren R]

In a thread from a while back someone suggested Buxton and Blackburn were sites which had been examined for a new DMU depot....

...Blackburn sounds a more sensible option - two routes to Manchester, close to Clitheroe, on the Colne-Blackpool and York-Blackpool routes.

I notice that some fairly serious devegetation has been going on at Blackburn recently. The remains of the former King Street goods branch have lain unused for over three decades (as the copse that has grown there since will testify), but over the last couple of months it has all been removed. It struck me as curious that such major deforestation has been undertaken, and wondered why. Track recovery was my first thought, but there is very little to recover beyond the connection with the running lines, which set me wondering and I remembered this thread.

Now that Arriva's plans are starting to be unveiled, has anything been announced yet about prospective new stabling for Northern?

 

[randyrippley]

Plenty of storage space at Carnforth in the old civil engineers sidings.
There will be even more when WCRC close down.......

 

[RichmondCommu]

Plenty of storage space at Carnforth in the old civil engineers sidings.
There will be even more when WCRC close down.......

Why would you open a DMU servicing facility at Carnforth when you already have one at Barrow?

 

[randyrippley]

Why would you open a DMU servicing facility at Carnforth when you already have one at Barrow?

it was a joke.....

 

[lejog]

I notice that some fairly serious devegetation has been going on at Blackburn recently. The remains of the former King Street goods branch have lain unused for over three decades (as the copse that has grown there since will testify), but over the last couple of months it has all been removed. It struck me as curious that such major deforestation has been undertaken, and wondered why. Track recovery was my first thought, but there is very little to recover beyond the connection with the running lines, which set me wondering and I remembered this thread.

Now that Arriva's plans are starting to be unveiled, has anything been announced yet about prospective new stabling for Northern?

Possibly coincidence, but the new Northern Franchise spec has two extra departures from Leeds at 22.xx and 23.xx terminating at Blackburn. I haven't checked for early morning departures from Blackburn.

 

[DarloRich]

Are we talking about out stabling or an actual depot?

 

[northwichcat]

Are we talking about out stabling or an actual depot?

I imagine an additional depot or a depot expansion will be required as they'll be significantly more carriages in the Northern fleet by 2019. Although, in the short term more stabling might do.

Since I started this thread someone posted in another thread that Alstom's lease on the Chester depot hasn't got long to run and with Alstom having requested planning permission for a new site in Halton, that Arriva Rail North have looked at the option of leasing Chester depot.

 

[The Planner]

King St is a strategic freight site, it will be to do with that.

 

[WestRiding]

Tinsley Yard? Ample room for anything required. Access to Leeds/Donny and beyond via Rotherham Cent. Or to Sheffield Midland.

 

[Haydn1971]

Tinsley Yard? Ample room for anything required. Access to Leeds/Donny and beyond via Rotherham Cent. Or to Sheffield Midland.

You haven't been there recently have you ? Two huge warehouses live there now.

 

[Darren R]

King St is a strategic freight site, it will be to do with that.

I don't want to drag the thread off topic, but...

King Street is a what? hock:

 

[najaB]

I notice that some fairly serious devegetation has been going on at Blackburn recently. The remains of the former King Street goods branch have lain unused for over three decades...

Had a quick search of the Blackburn with Darwen council planning site and haven't found anything.

 

[lincolnshire]

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/traction-maintenance-depot-buxton-september-2015.t99605

Doesn't look like the depot at Buxton is in a dreadful state based on these images purported to be from September 2015.

I see that the old EWS Depot a Buxton is been demolished and the site cleared and supposed to be an extension to the station car park going on it.
Talking to a driver it had been thought that Northern might have a fuelling depot on the site at one time. The cost of a fuel installation to meet the new regulations for pollution etc far outweighed the plan as all the existing fuel installation was no longer compliant so that idea was dropped in favour of elsewhere.

 

[deltic08]

Is Bradford Hammerton Street land still undeveloped?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I see that the old EWS Depot a Buxton is been demolished and the site cleared and supposed to be an extension to the station car park going on it.
Talking to a driver it had been thought that Northern might have a fuelling depot on the site at one time. The cost of a fuel installation to meet the new regulations for pollution etc far outweighed the plan as all the existing fuel installatiwas no longer compliant so that idea was dropped in favour of elsewhere.

That's actually made me feel quite sad. I have very fond memories of watching loco's come on and off shed in the 1970's, it always seemed to be a busy little place whenever we went.

 

[Elecman]

King Street is being earmarked for the new facility for Northern

 

[61653 HTAFC]

King Street is being earmarked for the new facility for Northern

In which conurbation is this particular King Street of which you speak?

 

[najaB]

In which conurbation is this particular King Street of which you speak?

There are quite a few King Streets, but King Street, Blackburn was mentioned up-thread so possibly that one.

 

[Elecman]

In which conurbation is this particular King Street of which you speak?

Blackburn

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Blackburn

Thanks. I assume such a facility would not be massive, as it is some distance from what could be termed the "core(s)" of Northern's network.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks. I assume such a facility would not be massive, as it is some distance from what could be termed the "core(s)" of Northern's network.

Blackburn is quite convenient for many of the stations west of the Pennines where Northern's DMUs will start and end their working days, so I think there could be quite a number of units here each night. Stabling them locally reduces empty stock costs and also allows earlier services into Manchester and Leeds in the morning and later ones back at night, without eating into Network Rail's engineering hours. Relatively easy also to diagram each unit into Newton Heath or Neville Hill every few days for heavier maintenance.

 

[Darren R]

Blackburn is quite convenient for many of the stations west of the Pennines where Northern's DMUs will start and end their working days, so I think there could be quite a number of units here each night. Stabling them locally reduces empty stock costs and also allows earlier services into Manchester and Leeds in the morning and later ones back at night, without eating into Network Rail's engineering hours. Relatively easy also to diagram each unit into Newton Heath or Neville Hill every few days for heavier maintenance.

Since the Todmorden Curve service (finally) started, units are stabled overnight in Blackburn station. It also seems to have become a crew changeover point, so in some respects it would make sense. On the other hand, knowing the town, I would have thought the station would be a far more secure location for stabling purposes than the King Street branch!

 

[Ash Bridge]

That's actually made me feel quite sad. I have very fond memories of watching loco's come on and off shed in the 1970's, it always seemed to be a busy little place whenever we went.

Especially for you Richmond, not quite back in the seventies but as close as I have in my collection, sorry about the poor quality.