Potential sites for a new Northern DMU depot

[RichmondCommu]

Especially for you Richmond, not quite back in the seventies but as close as I have in my collection, sorry about the poor quality.

Thanks for that I remember one very cold winters day seeing class 20's on snow plough duties caked in snow and ice resting at the depot. That I think was the last time I ever went and would have been 1981 I think.

Not forgetting of course its allocation of DMU's (class 110's?) and the parcel DMU's that could also be seen. Memories!
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Stabling them locally reduces empty stock costs and also allows earlier services into Manchester and Leeds in the morning and later ones back at night, without eating into Network Rail's engineering hours. Relatively easy also to diagram each unit into Newton Heath or Neville Hill every few days for heavier maintenance.

The only issue with access to Leeds is the run up to Hellifield which assumes that the line via Clitheroe is signaled at all times which may not be the case.

 

[D6975]

In 1980 Buxton had an allocation of class 104s.
35 driving motor vehicles.
and 16 unpowered centre cars.

 

[RichmondCommu]

In 1980 Buxton had an allocation of class 104s.
35 driving motor vehicles.
and 16 unpowered centre cars.

Many thanks for the correction Of course complete with their fancy white roofs!

 

[Darren R]

The only issue with access to Leeds is the run up to Hellifield which assumes that the line via Clitheroe is signaled at all times which may not be the case.

The Clitheroe line is open 24 hours, but that wouldn't make any difference to trains heading to Leeds from Blackburn - they go via Copy Pit!


Didn't Buxton TMD apply their own-variant livery to their allocation of Class 104s? Was it black window-surrounds on the unit fronts or similar? (Or am I suffering from False Memory Syndrome! )

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(Ah! White roofs - thanks!)

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks for that I remember one very cold winters day seeing class 20's on snow plough duties caked in snow and ice resting at the depot. That I think was the last time I ever went and would have been 1981 I think.

Not forgetting of course its allocation of DMU's (class 110's?) and the parcel DMU's that could also be seen. Memories!
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From memory I seem to recall December of both 1981/82 were rather bad ones so you probably remember correctly, the Buxton units were BRC&W units, but of the class 104 type, and in the latter years they were replaced mainly by Derby 108's, must admit I'd forgotten about the parcel units though.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Didn't Buxton TMD apply their own-variant livery to their allocation of Class 104s? Was it black window-surrounds on the unit fronts or similar? (Or am I suffering from False Memory Syndrome! )

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(Ah! White roofs - thanks!)

Just to refresh your memory Darren

 

[RichmondCommu]

The Clitheroe line is open 24 hours, but that wouldn't make any difference to trains heading to Leeds from Blackburn - they go via Copy Pit!

Yes of course! Silly me I knew I should have consulted the Bakers Atlas before engaging my fingers!

 

[Darren R]

Just to refresh your memory Darren

That's the one! Thanks!

At the risk of taking the thread off-topic (sorry) where was that photograph taken?

 

[Ash Bridge]

That's the one! Thanks!

At the risk of taking the thread off-topic (sorry) where was that photograph taken?

It was actually shot passing Ash Bridge signal box back in August 1975 whilst working a Stalybridge-Stockport service, bit of an improvement on today's Friday's only 142's wouldn't you say?

 

[RichmondCommu]

From memory I seem to recall December of both 1981/82 were rather bad ones so you probably remember correctly, the Buxton units were BRC&W units, but of the class 104 type, and in the latter years they were replaced mainly by Derby 108's, must admit I'd forgotten about the parcel units though.

That same day I remember getting the train to Dove Holes and then walking over to Peak Forest and Great Rocks to look for class 25's working the ICI hoppers. It was bloody freezing but we did at least have the right winter gear; I can credit my days in the Scouts for that!
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It was actually shot passing Ash Bridge signal box back in August 1975 whilst working a Stalybridge-Stockport service, bit of an improvement on today's Friday's only 142's wouldn't you say?

A bit of an improvement on the service too!

 

[Ash Bridge]

That same day I remember getting the train to Dove Holes and then walking over to Peak Forest and Great Rocks to look for class 25's working the ICI hoppers. It was bloody freezing but we did at least have the right winter gear; I can credit my days in the Scouts for that!
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A bit of an improvement on the service too!

Obviously pretty hardy types are you Derbyshire lads then!

 

[matacaster]

Is Bradford Hammerton Street land still undeveloped?

Doh, bridge missing!

 

[Darren R]

It was actually shot passing Ash Bridge signal box back in August 1975 whilst working a Stalybridge-Stockport service, bit of an improvement on today's Friday's only 142's wouldn't you say?

Ah - thank you: I just couldn't place the location.

Hmm, some of us are old enough to remember an hourly service twixt Stockport and Stalybridge - in both directions and every day!

(Think I better leave it at that, before the thread gets moved into the Nostalgia section! )

 

[RichmondCommu]

Obviously pretty hardy types are you Derbyshire lads then!

Hardy or stupid Looking back it was certainly worth it though. It also helps when the kind signal man at Peak Forest invites you in for a warm and and a cup of tea! Our faces must have been a picture when he shouted over to us.

It beggars belief that DBS now service their locos in the open air in the depths of a Peak District winter.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone remember Rose Grove depot in the late 1950s/early 1960s. That seemed a very busy depot in those days?

Incidentally, when the time comes for Newton Heath depot seeing "The Last of the Pacers" (sounds like a film featuring either Harry Potter or Indiana Jones), will its location still be as useful for Manchester area services?

 

[D6975]

Black window surrounds were applied by Buxton to their 108s.
A few received 104 style white roofs as well, but that was pretty short lived IIRC.

 

[edwin_m]

Does anyone remember Rose Grove depot in the late 1950s/early 1960s. That seemed a very busy depot in those days?

Incidentally, when the time comes for Newton Heath depot seeing "The Last of the Pacers" (sounds like a film featuring either Harry Potter or Indiana Jones), will its location still be as useful for Manchester area services?

More trains will need more depot facilities not less, and Newton Heath is a convenient site for Victoria. So I can't see Newton Heath closing.

 

[class 9]

Doh, bridge missing!

It's been a First Bus depot for knocking on 20 years!

 

[kelv]

if HS2 goes ahead then there's supposed to be a huge depot near me which will also be a cleaning station in what is currently Lightshaw Meadow, judging by the size of it it'll be for a lot more than what they've claimed... they omitted to say about the cleaning for all trains to begin with btw.

 

[kevconnor]

More trains will need more depot facilities not less, and Newton Heath is a convenient site for Victoria. So I can't see Newton Heath closing.

My own feeling is Newton Heath may be used as the main home of the additional 150's which Northern will aquire that will be used this side of the Pennines to replace the 142's.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My own feeling is Newton Heath may be used as the main home of the additional 150's which Northern will aquire that will be used this side of the Pennines to replace the 142's.

Well, they have enough experience of handling the Class 150 units there.

 

[edwin_m]

My own feeling is Newton Heath may be used as the main home of the additional 150's which Northern will aquire that will be used this side of the Pennines to replace the 142's.

Yes probably the home depot, but many will stable with cleaning and fuelling at Blackburn or elsewhere, returning to NH every few days for more major attention. Unless someone decides to build new facilities at one of the new sites and Newton Heath becomes mainly stabling.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

More trains will need more depot facilities not less, and Newton Heath is a convenient site for Victoria. So I can't see Newton Heath closing.

My own feeling is Newton Heath may be used as the main home of the additional 150's which Northern will aquire that will be used this side of the Pennines to replace the 142's.

Yes probably the home depot, but many will stable with cleaning and fuelling at Blackburn or elsewhere, returning to NH every few days for more major attention. Unless someone decides to build new facilities at one of the new sites and Newton Heath becomes mainly stabling.

So logic then says - since electrification is happening - that when Vic -Staly etc is wired that Newton Heath is also - surely?

 

[edwin_m]

So logic then says - since electrification is happening - that when Vic -Staly etc is wired that Newton Heath is also - surely?

Why? DMUs will be based at Newton Heath. Allerton has been re-opened for EMUs, but whether it has enough capacity to take the full fleet proposed by Arriva Northern is probably a question for a separate thread.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

So logic then says - since electrification is happening - that when Vic -Staly etc is wired that Newton Heath is also - surely?

Why? DMUs will be based at Newton Heath. Allerton has been re-opened for EMUs, but whether it has enough capacity to take the full fleet proposed by Arriva Northern is probably a question for a separate thread.

Operational flexibility and future planning. DMUs are hopefully being phased out over the next 20 years. It just makes total sense to me. But hey - that's me.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Operational flexibility and future planning. DMUs are hopefully being phased out over the next 20 years. It just makes total sense to me. But hey - that's me.

If there's a derailment, shunting accident or dewirement at Allerton, you have few options on where to empty toilets and refill water tanks, do basic cleaning and minor running repairs to keep EMU stock in service.

 

[edwin_m]

Operational flexibility and future planning. DMUs are hopefully being phased out over the next 20 years. It just makes total sense to me. But hey - that's me.

Before DMUs are phased out Calder Valley will have to be electrified, which will include the access to Newton Heath. Given the shortage of electrification resources and the extra need for diesel maintenance in the meantime, I can't see any reason to do so before then.

 

[northwichcat]

Operational flexibility and future planning. DMUs are hopefully being phased out over the next 20 years. It just makes total sense to me. But hey - that's me.

20 years would be extremely optimistic. Page 53 of this report: http://www.railnorth.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EFT_Final_Report_FINAL_web.pdf indicates 32 potential schemes for the North after North TPE. Even getting the high priority ones done (the top 12) will probably take up to 10 years after North TPE is done and then we'll be 16 years in the future with 20 routes still to electrify and that doesn't include some freight only lines where passenger trains are occasionally used e.g. Denton and Middlewich. Maybe in 50 years time DMUs will be obsolete!

 

[WatcherZero]

I believe the latest ATOC rolling stock plan mentions the upcoming electrification refresh had settled on 12/13 future electrification schemes good to go with the rest of the 32 needing further work to become viable business propositions.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I believe the latest ATOC rolling stock plan mentions the upcoming electrification refresh had settled on 12/13 future electrification schemes good to go with the rest of the 32 needing further work to become viable business propositions.

Before DMUs are phased out Calder Valley will have to be electrified, which will include the access to Newton Heath. Given the shortage of electrification resources and the extra need for diesel maintenance in the meantime, I can't see any reason to do so before then.

With one of those schemes being The Calder Valley line