Trains using multiple platforms

[noddingdonkey]

Aren't there issues because the door close control closes both sides at the same time on some stock, so safe despatch is complicated.

 

[Essexman]

Another LU one - at Barking Platform 2 I've seen the trains open their doors on both sides on a few occasions.

QUOTE]

I think they always do. Nipping through a District Line train can be the quickest what to get from the Gospel Oak to C2C platform.

 

[Phil.]

Aren't there issues because the door close control closes both sides at the same time on some stock, so safe despatch is complicated.

Complicated, why so?

 

[headshot119]

Complicated, why so?

You can't view both sides of the train at the same time to perform the train safety check before pressing the close doors button.

 

[AM9]

How about Loughton on the LU Central Line?

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I seem to remember in the distant past that they did used to use both sides, even with 455s (slamdoors for sure!). I think a radio was used by a dispatcher on one side to communicate with dispatcher on the 'main' side who would then use a bat

I have been on 458s where the doors opened both sides at Ascot on Waterloo bound trains. I am not sure but possibly 450s too.

 

[fulmar]

Preston has a double-sided bay (always advertised as 3c),

3C at Preston is single sided, adjacent to 4C.

 

[Taunton]

Such platform lines have been reasonably common over time. In the days of slam doors doing a dispatch was something to be careful with, but nothing beyond the abilities of the guards of the time. At Taunton the old down Barnstaple bay, still extant although just used as a siding, was like this. Some used it to cut through a standing Barnstaple train's carriages from the front coaches of a down main line train to a Minehead branch train in the second bay line, saving walking round the bufferstops.

 

[clagmonster]

How about Loughton on the LU Central Line?

When I have been there the driver has initially opened up on the left hand side when arriving from the west, thus giving passengers wanting to be further east cross platform interchange to Debden / Epping trains. When passengers have had chance to alight, these doors are closed and the doors at the other side opened, so that access to the train is from the main westbound island platform.

 

[MCR247]

At Canary Wharf the opposite sides of the same track have different platform numbers. Does anyone know why, and is it true at any of the other tracks with platforms both sides?

What is the alternative? Unless you start to refer to them as 'tracks' surely any other method would just cause confusion?

 

[matchmaker]

Several stations on the Glasgow Subway have this feature. Partick, Govan and St Enoch from memory.

 

[thenorthern]

IIRC with Ulverston there are 2 faces on Platform 1 although doors only open on the side where the booking hall is. Whats confusing as well though is the Lancaster platform is numbered Platform 3 but there are only 2 tracks.

The strange layout was put in place so that people traveling from the south who wanted to go to Lakeside could change trains by getting off on the right side of the train onto the island platform where the Lakeside train would arrive on the opposite platform. This strange layout then avoided the need to use the subway.

 

[edwin_m]

What is the alternative? Unless you start to refer to them as 'tracks' surely any other method would just cause confusion?

What we refer to in the UK as a platform number is what most of the rest of the world more logically refers to as a track number.

So the traditional arrangement for a track with platforms both sides would be to give both platforms the same number. In the days before power doors or dispatch safety checks you would still catch the same train whichever side you stood on, so no potential for confusion.

These days if one side is never used that side probably won't have a number at all, but I've never (in the UK) seen different platform numbers on opposite sides of the same track except at Canary Wharf (where ironically enough they do open doors both sides).

 

[Taunton]

I've never (in the UK) seen different platform numbers on opposite sides of the same track except at Canary Wharf (where ironically enough they do open doors both sides).

DLR Tower Gateway is the same, plats 1 and 2 either side of a single track. The station was rebuilt a few years ago to this pattern from the former island with 2 tracks. Theoretically passengers should alight on the north side (plat 1) and wait to board on the south side; this latter works well normally, but because the doors are released simultaneously on both sides on arrival, together with rather unclear PA announcements, equal numbers disembark on both sides, which somewhat loses the point of the quite expensive remodelling.

The several Underground stations like Loughton or Arnos Grove were built that way in the 1930s-40s so a short shuttle train to the end of the line could wait in the centre line, passengers could cross the platform to the next departure to London and equally board from those arriving from there. The Ongar shuttle originally operated from Loughton rather than Epping. Unlike the DLR, whose under-running conductor rail makes this not an issue, I've always been a bit questioning about Underground platforms like this, the new Stratford westbound one in particular, with the live rail just a footslip beneath you as you board - which is of course why every other station always has the positive rail on the opposite side to the platform.

 

[me123]

Several stations on the Glasgow Suballway have this feature. Partick, Govan and St Enoch from memory.

All stations on the original subway had an island platform. At the 1977 refurb, Partick (the new station, replacing Merkland Street) got side platforms, as did Govan and St Enoch.

Ibrox, Hillhead and Buchanan Street had one new side platform built for one circle, and retained the island platform for the other. As such, one circle could theoretically open its doors on both sides at these three stations (although the lack of DOO monitors would prove problematic). I doubt this ever happened. In the last few years, SPT installed a glass wall at these locations on the island platform, preventing wrong side door opening. It's just as well they did - the Subway's island platforms are very narrow!

 

[edwin_m]

Unlike the DLR, whose under-running conductor rail makes this not an issue, I've always been a bit questioning about Underground platforms like this, the new Stratford westbound one in particular, with the live rail just a footslip beneath you as you board - which is of course why every other station always has the positive rail on the opposite side to the platform.

The DLR does of course have upward-facing shoes on both sides of the train, which are all live whenever any of them is touching the live rail. However there appear to be some shields attached to the platform walls, presumably at the places where the shoegear stops. I doubt it would be possible to position a shield above a bottom-contact third rail for the same purpose without fouling the gauge of passing trains.

Hence this is probably a case of a risk with no practicable mitigation, which is tolerable and just has to be tolerated.

 

[Deepgreen]

Also on LU - Golders Green and White City have tracks with platforms both sides. Greenford has the bay for the GWR trains in the centre of the otherwise island platform. Cockfosters and Uxbridge are three road termini with the centre road being dual-platformed.

 

[Taunton]

The DLR does of course have upward-facing shoes on both sides of the train, which are all live whenever any of them is touching the live rail. However there appear to be some shields attached to the platform walls, presumably at the places where the shoegear stops. I doubt it would be possible to position a shield above a bottom-contact third rail for the same purpose without fouling the gauge of passing trains.

Hence this is probably a case of a risk with no practicable mitigation, which is tolerable and just has to be tolerated.

Yes the DLR does have short shields (like bits of it's conductor rail cover) at stations. I've actually seen trespassers cross the tracks between platforms and use these as steps up :roll:

For the likes of Stratford I have wondered whether an opposite of the system used at Wimbledon and Richmond would be possible. The Underground is normally 630v, supplied at +420v in the outer positive rail and -210v in the centre negative rail. On those sections shared with NR it's +630v in the outer and 0 in the centre, bonded to the running rails which of course are also zero and the return path for the NR trains. As far as the Underground train is concerned it sees a difference of 630v whatever. So could Stratford platform be supplied with -630v in the centre and zero in the outer conductor rail? Is the insulation of the centre sufficient? Possibly a traction electrical engineer will be along to say whether this is practical or a nonsense.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes the DLR does have short shields (like bits of it's conductor rail cover) at stations. I've actually seen trespassers cross the tracks between platforms and use these as steps up :roll:

For the likes of Stratford I have wondered whether an opposite of the system used at Wimbledon and Richmond would be possible. The Underground is normally 630v, supplied at +420v in the outer positive rail and -210v in the centre negative rail. On those sections shared with NR it's +630v in the outer and 0 in the centre, bonded to the running rails which of course are also zero and the return path for the NR trains. As far as the Underground train is concerned it sees a difference of 630v whatever. So could Stratford platform be supplied with -630v in the centre and zero in the outer conductor rail? Is the insulation of the centre sufficient? Possibly a traction electrical engineer will be along to say whether this is practical or a nonsense.

I can't say if it is nonsense but it would need a coach-length gap in the conductor rails at each end, so that shoes that are electrically connected to each other couldn't be touching the different configurations at the same time.

 

[BelleIsle]

If you wish to venture beyound the UK the S-Bahn tunnel in Munich had this designed in from the start. At stations like Marienplatz there are platforms either side of the train and both sets of doors open. The idea is that passengers exit one side and enter the other hence reducing dwell times. It works pretty well except when a tourist gets out on the on side and finds that there is no route off the platform.

 

[Taunton]

I can't say if it is nonsense but it would need a coach-length gap in the conductor rails at each end, so that shoes that are electrically connected to each other couldn't be touching the different configurations at the same time.

Isn't this what is done at Putney Bridge and Gunnersbury on the District, and Queens Park on the Bakerloo?

 

[edwin_m]

Isn't this what is done at Putney Bridge and Gunnersbury on the District, and Queens Park on the Bakerloo?

Yes, although those are transitions between the standard LU fourth rail and NR third/fourth rail arrangements, but in either case the gaps are needed to avoid the connection of bits of rail that have potentials differing by hundreds of volts.

 

[Clip]

The one at Norwood Junction is a headache as I experienced last year as the doors only open on one side, causing me to miss that train and wait in a not pleasant area.

I find it odd why you would wait on platform 2 for a train when not a single one is advertised as boarding from there, only 1 or 3.

And even after the football - which I guess is why you are down there - there is a fast train every 10 mins or so from plat 3 and one about evey 6 mins from platform 1 so you didnt have to wait long. And its not that bad an area at all.

I havent seen anyone say eastbound on the central line yet , or did I miss it.

 

[Deepgreen]

I find it odd why you would wait on platform 2 for a train when not a single one is advertised as boarding from there, only 1 or 3.

And even after the football - which I guess is why you are down there - there is a fast train every 10 mins or so from plat 3 and one about evey 6 mins from platform 1 so you didnt have to wait long. And its not that bad an area at all.

I havent seen anyone say eastbound on the central line yet , or did I miss it.

Yes, Norwood Junction is not a problem as there is nothing from platform 2. I remember when slam-door stock was used, the option for either platform existed.

When you say "eastbound on the central line" - where do you mean? I have already mentioned White City, and Loughton has also been mentioned.

 

[Clip]

Yes, Norwood Junction is not a problem as there is nothing from platform 2. I remember when slam-door stock was used, the option for either platform existed.

When you say "eastbound on the central line" - where do you mean? I have already mentioned White City, and Loughton has also been mentioned.

I said at stratford however I did mean the westbound not east, my compass was upside down

 

[Chris M]

yes, platforms 3/3A at Stratford have been mentioned a couple of times already.

Cockfosters on the Piccadilly Line though hasn't been mentioned, like Uxbridge it has the potential for doors to be opened on both sides of the train but they are only opened on one side.

At Loughton both sides are used, but never simultaneously, and I think the same is true at White City.

LU and DLR trains have the facility to close the doors on a single side of the train independently of the other, so safe dispatch is achieved by first closing one and then the other. My understanding from a discussion (I think on a different forum) a few years ago is that most National Rail stock cannot do this, and pressing the button to close the doors will always close all of them.

 

[ag51ruk]

.....

 

[Deepgreen]

yes, platforms 3/3A at Stratford have been mentioned a couple of times already.

Cockfosters on the Piccadilly Line though hasn't been mentioned, like Uxbridge it has the potential for doors to be opened on both sides of the train but they are only opened on one side.

I mentioned Cockfosters in post 47.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I said at stratford however I did mean the westbound not east, my compass was upside down

I still can't find where you mentioned Stratford by name...

 

[Taunton]

I still can't find where you mentioned Stratford by name...

Posts 44, 46, 48.

 

[Deepgreen]

Posts 44, 46, 48.

Thanks, Taunton, but I was referring to where 'Clip' had mentioned Stratford by name, as his assertion was that he had (post 55, leading on from the last line of post 53). Never mind, it's unimportant - move on...