Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[EbbwJunction1]

Not always true.
I can use my Welsh Bus Pass on the Cambrian, north of Machynlleth, on the Heart of Wales to Swansea, and on the Festiniog branch at certain times of year. (like now).

Other than that I agree with you. There are not enough passengers to use this line to make it viable. As I've said elsewhere "Oink flutter, oink flutter"

I'd forgotten about that, so thanks for reminding me. Generally, though, it can only be used on buses and, I guess, someone would have to add any new line(s) to it so it could be used.

 

[Envoy]

Regarding the over 60 Bus Pass: - this means that the people who don't (normally) go to work are free to travel about during the middle of the day on buses. The Welsh Government then pick up the bill for these travellers. In areas where railways exist, the people with Bus Passes could be on the trains during off peak times providing revenue and thus making these services more economically viable. So, the Welsh Government have to subsidise the railways to a certain extent because they are deprived of income because of bus passes - which the WG also fund!

PS. I have just read the report about the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth rail route. I wonder what the Victorians would make of how we do things today compared to the way they built the railways in the 1800's? No SSI's, newts or bats to worry about in those days!

 

[PHILIPE]

The railway south from Brecon (to Merthyr & beyond), had to get through the Brecon Beacons and went via Talybont-on-Usk and then up to the highest railway tunnel in the UK - at Torpantau before following what is now the Brecon Mountain Steam Railway. Apart from being very scenic, time wise the A470 is much quicker. (You can travel most of the route at 50 to 60 mph - traffic & sheep permitting).

Another railway did go SW to Neath / Swansea.

And the route from Brecon to Hereford which diverged at Talyllyn Junction.

 

[Llanigraham]

Regarding the over 60 Bus Pass: - this means that the people who don't (normally) go to work are free to travel about during the middle of the day on buses. The Welsh Government then pick up the bill for these travellers. In areas where railways exist, the people with Bus Passes could be on the trains during off peak times providing revenue and thus making these services more economically viable. So, the Welsh Government have to subsidise the railways to a certain extent because they are deprived of income because of bus passes - which the WG also fund!

The only time I have used mine on the HoW, from Llan'dod, most of the dozen passengers we using their bus passes, and seemed to be "out for a jolly"
(It wasn't, we broke down!!)

 

[6Gman]

Regarding the over 60 Bus Pass: - this means that the people who don't (normally) go to work are free to travel about during the middle of the day on buses. The Welsh Government then pick up the bill for these travellers. In areas where railways exist, the people with Bus Passes could be on the trains during off peak times providing revenue and thus making these services more economically viable. So, the Welsh Government have to subsidise the railways to a certain extent because they are deprived of income because of bus passes - which the WG also fund!

PS. I have just read the report about the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth rail route. I wonder what the Victorians would make of how we do things today compared to the way they built the railways in the 1800's? No SSI's, newts or bats to worry about in those days!

One of the problems with the bus pass scheme is that the revenue paid by the WAG/ local authorities is very low. So low that even a full bus can be lossmaking if it's only carrying pensioners.

On the specific of Aber - Carmarthen since the bus is already subsidised any abstraction to a reopened railway would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. (Or, in that part of the world, robbing Emyr to pay Brychan.)

 

[krus_aragon]

The scoping study is now available (pdf) - it finds the total project cost could be up to £750m.

Well, I suppose that would nicely eat up all the Barnett consequential from HS2... [thread]124050[/thread] :P

 

[llandaffyard]

£750m is a huge sum. It seems all infrastructure projects are now fantastically expensive. Where does all that money go?

 

[Llanigraham]

£750m is a huge sum. It seems all infrastructure projects are now fantastically expensive. Where does all that money go?

It is all specified in the Report linked to earlier.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Trawslink post they had meeting in Aberystwyth today with WG, CCC, ATW, GWR and Consultants and have had green light for scoping study to go to WeiTag Stage 1 Appraisal.

 

[Llanigraham]

Trawslink post they had meeting in Aberystwyth today with WG, CCC, ATW, GWR and Consultants and have had green light for scoping study to go to WeiTag Stage 1 Appraisal.

Let them carry on. Aviating porcine animals comes to mind.

 

[HowardGWR]

Let them carry on. Aviating porcine animals comes to mind.

I'm an outsider, but when I think about what is needed in the South Wales area and this idea, it does seem rather irresponsible to pursue a scenic line. I've visited the Gwili and it is very lovely but ....really.

 

[Gareth Marston]

From the horses mouth..

Traws Link Cymru
5 hrs ·
A very positive meeting today at the WG offices in Aber. attended by two representatives from TLC, and numerous other interested parties, from The WG,Ceredigion CC, Network Rail, Arriva Trains, GWR Trains,et al.Sadly no representattive from Carmartheshire CC turned up, despite being on the invite list, somewhat surprising for such a game changing campaign.The outcome of which is that more information is needed, and this should be obtained through the first stage of the WelTAG appraisal process (pg 31 of the Scoping Study Report - top box outlined in red). The analysis will be carried out by Claire and AECOM. The aim will be to look closely at the problems associated with, and objectives of, the proposed railway reopening. This process will be completed by the end of February, at which point the Working Group will reconvene in Aberystwyth to consider her report. On the basis of that, a decision will be taken as to whether or not to recommend to the Minister that she agrees to fund a full Feasibility Study.
All in all a good day for the campaign we feel.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thanks Gareth for that information. Considering that Carmarthenshire County Council were said to be on the official invite list to this meeting, the subject matter of which that is most certainly something that will be a prospective addition to their strategic transport policy, does the fact that no-one from the council attended this meeting give a mirror on how this railway re-opening aspiration is actually viewed by them?

 

[Mark62]

Dream on about this line ever reopening. You have more chance of getting kenilworth station reopened. They only started that campaign 40 years ago!

 

[The Planner]

Now I must be missing something with that one as Kenilworth reopens next year.

 

[D1009]

My recollection of Kenilworth is that the reason it hasn't opened earlier was that there was a campaign to stop it!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Let us all remember that we are discussing reopening an entire line upon this thread, not just individual stations.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Shots fired already on May Assembly election trail.

Plaid Cymru promising an act that makes all infrastructure spend in Wales proportional to regions of Wales where folk live. (the not spend everything around Cardiff agenda). Also promising generic upgrading of road and rail infrastructure so far no detail.

Labour had conference in Llandudno and First Minister promised improvements on A55 and a "North Wales Coast Metro" - detail lacking and Jeremy Corbyn spoke in favor of North Wales Mainline Electrification. Speculation that many in party are not happy with committing to M4 Relief Road- Black Route.

Relevance? Well the polls suggest that these two might have to shack up in coalition again

I cant see Labour allowing the Plaid Cymru Act as part of the deal however a sizeable bone will have to be chucked transport wise at somewhere that votes Plaid possibly funded by the cheaper M4 Relief Road Blue Route.

Menai Bridge- Caernarfon with noises about extending to Afon Wen might be more of a goer . Trawslink want this as stage 2 after Aber-Carmarthen but its actually more sensible first. Caernarfons twice the size of Lampeter and ticks the tourist boxes that Lampeter doesn't. Afon Wen would get the southern half of the Lleyn peninsular connected with the North Wales Coast which is the natural direction of travel. There's also many more folk on the Lleyn than in the middle of Ceredigion.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Shots fired already on May Assembly election trail.
Plaid Cymru promising an act that makes all infrastructure spend in Wales proportional to regions of Wales where folk live. (the not spend everything around Cardiff agenda). Also promising generic upgrading of road and rail infrastructure so far no detail.

All irrelevant without devolution of the rail infrastructure budget to the WG.
They have a habit of presuming that they have/will have these powers, when they haven't, except for local schemes.
And a proportionality rule would still entrench ?80% spend in south Wales (on the back of "free" SWML electrification).
The big schemes also have a cross-border aspect which brings us back to Westminster.

 

[Gareth Marston]

All irrelevant without devolution of the rail infrastructure budget to the WG.
They have a habit of presuming that they have/will have these powers, when they haven't, except for local schemes.
And a proportionality rule would still entrench ?80% spend in south Wales (on the back of "free" SWML electrification).
The big schemes also have a cross-border aspect which brings us back to Westminster.

Population:
49% SE Wales
22% N Wales
23% SW Wales
6% Mid Wales

Remember the South Wales Metro stops at Bridgend and doesn't include Neath Port Talbot or Swansea.

 

[8H]

Population:
49% SE Wales
22% N Wales
23% SW Wales
6% Mid Wales

Remember the South Wales Metro stops at Bridgend and doesn't include Neath Port Talbot or Swansea.

Interesting! Because if you connect NW 22%+MW 6% to SWW 23% you get 51% of the population, but you would need Bangor to Afon Wen too

 

[Gareth Marston]

All irrelevant without devolution of the rail infrastructure budget to the WG.
They have a habit of presuming that they have/will have these powers, when they haven't, except for local schemes.
And a proportionality rule would still entrench ?80% spend in south Wales (on the back of "free" SWML electrification).
The big schemes also have a cross-border aspect which brings us back to Westminster.

Vale of Glamorgan, Ebbw Vale, Cambrian passing loops, Wrexham partial redouble, energlyn station, Cardiff Area re signalling extra platforms at Cardiff Central, Queen St, Barry, Pontypridd, Caerphily etc all have WG funding so there'slenty of precedent on WG funding rail infrastruture.

 

[Bald Rick]

Vale of Glamorgan, Ebbw Vale, Cambrian passing loops, Wrexham partial redouble, energlyn station, Cardiff Area re signalling extra platforms at Cardiff Central, Queen St, Barry, Pontypridd, Caerphily etc all have WG funding so there'slenty of precedent on WG funding rail infrastruture.

All on existing railways though, and all (except the Cambrian loops) on lines serving significant areas of population and / or regeneration areas.

The Cambrian was a special case, as it was done at the time of resignalling, and therefore cheap.

 

[Gareth Marston]

All on existing railways though, and all (except the Cambrian loops) on lines serving significant areas of population and / or regeneration areas.

The Cambrian was a special case, as it was done at the time of resignalling, and therefore cheap.

Precedent on infrastruture spend is there regardless of devolution of powers though. Welsh highland Railway was a rebuild and WG put money into that, Caernarfon to Porthmadog is hardly high population density and didn't have a closed steel works last time I looked.

Admittedly these are all on a smaller scale than Aber to Carmarthan. As I said previously Menai Bridge to Caernarfon fits the bill of something in a Plaid area and the cost and scale is more in line with past projects.

 

[CardiffKid]

The 2016 elections to the National Assembly for Wales are a month away and parties are launching their manifestos.

Plaid started today, full manifesto here: https://issuu.com/plaid/docs/plaid_cymru_2016_manifesto?e=1420648/34667908

Two quotes for you linked to the Aber - Carmarthen link:

(Page 75) “Creating a national rail link from north to South along with West Wales coast”

(Page 85) “We will commission a full feasibility study on the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line together with a second phase linking Bangor, Caernarfon and Arfon Wen near Phllheli”

I will leave the contradictory nature of these two statements for others to judge.

 

[topydre]

The 2016 elections to the National Assembly for Wales are a month away and parties are launching their manifestos.

Plaid started today, full manifesto here: https://issuu.com/plaid/docs/plaid_cymru_2016_manifesto?e=1420648/34667908

Two quotes for you linked to the Aber - Carmarthen link:

(Page 75) “Creating a national rail link from north to South along with West Wales coast”

(Page 85) “We will commission a full feasibility study on the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line together with a second phase linking Bangor, Caernarfon and Arfon Wen near Phllheli”

I will leave the contradictory nature of these two statements for others to judge.

It's not loading for me, but as a Welsh speaker, page 75 sounds like a translation error. I think it's likely supposed to read "along the".

 

[D1009]

The 2016 elections to the National Assembly for Wales are a month away and parties are launching their manifestos.

Plaid started today, full manifesto here: https://issuu.com/plaid/docs/plaid_cymru_2016_manifesto?e=1420648/34667908

Two quotes for you linked to the Aber - Carmarthen link:

(Page 75) “Creating a national rail link from north to South along with West Wales coast”

(Page 85) “We will commission a full feasibility study on the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line together with a second phase linking Bangor, Caernarfon and Arfon Wen near Phllheli”

I will leave the contradictory nature of these two statements for others to judge.

I couldn't load it either. Was it you or they who misspelt Afon Wen and Pwllheli?

 

[snowball]

That link is a Flash Player link. Such links often fail for me in my usual browser (Firefox) and this one does too. I've never seen Flash used to link a document before, but I can read it in Internet Explorer.

 

[CardiffKid]

I couldn't load it either. Was it you or they who misspelt Afon Wen and Pwllheli?

Me.

There wasn't a PDF of it this morning session so I couldn't copy and paste. This teach me for writing a post in a hurry while in work.

I'll keep an eye out for a PDF Version and repost.

But basically on one page it said it would reopen and another said Plaid would commission a feasibility study.

 

[krus_aragon]

Two quotes for you linked to the Aber - Carmarthen link:

(Page 75) “Creating a national rail link from north to South along the West Wales coast”

(Page 85) “We will commission a full feasibility study on the re-opening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line together with a second phase linking Bangor, Caernarfon and Afon Wen near Pwllheli”

I will leave the contradictory nature of these two statements for others to judge.

I'm not sure that they're contradictory, as page 75 lists "broad priorities for investment". I would expect any sensible feasibility study to advocate the easier, more profitable, low-hanging fruit of reconnecting Bangor-Caernarfon before pursuing the basket case (in my opinion) that is rebuilding Aberystwyth-Carmarthen.

Naturally, they want to give the AYW-CMN link top billing in the manifesto to ensure that Mid/West Wales voters feel they're not being overlooked in the rail projects.