Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[8H]

Those who aren't aware should check out the front page of the Traws Link page http://trawslinkcymru.org.uk/traws-link-cymru/, which sets out its aims. It's bilingual in places, but don't worry, that content isn't full of anti English messages... probably because the make up of the area is quite across the spectrum in terms of UK nationality (and dare I say, non-UK nationality and long may it continue).

I personally find it bizarre that the answer to Wales' transport network is to throw the money at the English railway network. The fact remains that the North and South are two separate animals. It's a by-product of history and how the trade was developed - everything went East. If the Welsh Assembly has any seriousness about serving the whole nation and not just the affluent south east (sound familiar?), then it needs to be able to extend transport networks across Wales. This line is but one link in that. The whole infrastructure of Wales needs to be shaken up, to allow it to be more than just a conduit for packet stations for trade from outside.

I am a bit surprised in some of the suggestions that somehow the buses will need more subsidy, that you need to reverse out of Aberystwyth (it's a unit and you go out and into the station on the same piece of track!), that somehow all the railways will be environmentally unfriendly, as opposed to the English railways (wouldn't they look to utilise the same developments? One would hope so) even that a bridge would need to be built across the Dyfi (one way to kill off the project) , but then that's people's opinions which is what the forum is for.

i apologise if people got angry, upset or somehow offended by my use of the Welsh language. Although an officially i.e. legally recognised medium in the UK, it does seem to get people running scared about fifth columnists. The translation was 'We're still here', taken from the Dafydd Iwan song translated of the same name. The chorus runs 'We are still here, in spite of everyone and everything' and has been played even at Twickenham (I know, 'cos I was there...), so I guess it isn't quite as subversive as some would worry.

I would like to wish everyone a Happy Christmas and I hope to God that 2020 leaves us less confrontational and better off than we are now. Then perhaps all our dreams can come true.

Good stuff !! I think Swiss topography is rather more challenging but they have an extensive rail system nonetheless going both east west and north south. The age of the motor car, the lorry and the white van is beginning to draw to a close. All parts of Britain are going to require alternative methods of connectivity. Connecting the west of Wales to the rest of Wales is simply a component requirement of the solution to the future problem facing us all. More rail routes really are part of the future.

 

[Meerkat]

The age of the motor car, the lorry and the white van is beginning to draw to a close

Aside from there being no evidence at all that this is true I note that you ignore buses, which are the obvious solution to the travel problems a Western Welsh route is trying to solve.
This is just a huge nationalist white elephant, and the dislike for travelling via England has a bit of a dubious undercurrent.

 

[8H]

Aside from there being no evidence at all that this is true I note that you ignore buses, which are the obvious solution to the travel problems a Western Welsh route is trying to solve.
This is just a huge nationalist white elephant, and the dislike for travelling via England has a bit of a dubious undercurrent.

No evidence apart from climate change, dangerous air pollution, declining fossil fuels stocks and the unlikely ability for the world to supply enough “orrible” stuff like cadmium to electrify road vehicles. Oh and another thing! statistics show that road haulage is actually only about 40% efficient in the use of scarce resources. If you had a central heating boiler that impossibly bad you wouldnt keep it! Road haulage has many more of its own challenges like loads of driver vacancies coupled with an over reliance on EU nationals in posts that are filled. The latter point will no doubt horrify the Little Britainers in our midst! Frankly the idea that the way we live is normal or sustainable is the notion that lacks any supporting evidence.

 

[Tobbes]

A new Dyfi bridge would clearly help - it would save about 13 miles of running, but it isn't going to be cheap; you could take out two golf courses, of course, if they annoy you.

 

[squizzler]

Tip of the hat to @talerddig (#1409) and @8H (#1411 & #1413) for your insightful posts. We all benefit from such insightful challenges to conventional thinking and the yet-to-be proven claims of the electric car promotors.

 

[Meerkat]

No evidence apart from climate change, dangerous air pollution, declining fossil fuels stocks and the unlikely ability for the world to supply enough “orrible” stuff like cadmium to electrify road vehicles. Oh and another thing! statistics show that road haulage is actually only about 40% efficient in the use of scarce resources. If you had a central heating boiler that impossibly bad you wouldnt keep it! Road haulage has many more of its own challenges like loads of driver vacancies coupled with an over reliance on EU nationals in posts that are filled. The latter point will no doubt horrify the Little Britainers in our midst! Frankly the idea that the way we live is normal or sustainable is the notion that lacks any supporting evidence.

You seem to be totally ignoring the result of what you are suggesting - reversing a century of societal change. It just isn’t going to happen.

 

[8H]

You seem to be totally ignoring the result of what you are suggesting - reversing a century of societal change. It just isn’t going to happen.

I don’t think I proposed “reversing” anything, on the contrary it is in order to face a future that is bearing down on us with high speed train velocity that we need to adapt. That adaptation will involve moving away from 90% of goods going on roads and the nation enjoying traffic jams in every UK city market town and commuter village twice a day. There are other ways to live than in the status quo, climate change and deadly foul air pollution will definitely force us to adapt soon. The railway as a heavy lifter of people and goods will inevitably play a bigger part.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don’t think I proposed “reversing” anything, on the contrary it is in order to face a future that is bearing down on us with high speed train velocity that we need to adapt. That adaptation will involve moving away from 90% of goods going on roads and the nation enjoying traffic jams in every UK city market town and commuter village twice a day. There are other ways to live than in the status quo, climate change and deadly foul air pollution will definitely force us to adapt soon. The railway as a heavy lifter of people and goods will inevitably play a bigger part.

Did your master plan involve any use of the canal systems as well, especially for bulk cargo transportation?

What will happen to those small independent companies currently using their own transport fleets, who you see using railheads?

How will our local tree surgeons and gardening companies manage without the use of their transport?

 

[8H]

Did your master plan involve any use of the canal systems as well, especially for bulk cargo transportation?

What will happen to those small independent companies currently using their own transport fleets, who you see using railheads?

How will our local tree surgeons and gardening companies manage without the use of their transport?

Listen chum, I don’t have a master plan, I am sure you do though, it’s called “Carry On Regardless” what I do have is an individual share in a widely held evidence based world wide belief that the way the world transports itself and its goods is unsustainable. Thinking about how to address this genuine crisis through the general statistical evidence and through particular schemes like AYW CMN is I believe still allowed, even in our De Pfeffelian age of boiled down status quo simplicities.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Listen chum, I don’t have a master plan, I am sure you do though, it’s called “Carry On Regardless” what I do have is an individual share in a widely held evidence based world wide belief that the way the world transports itself and its goods is unsustainable. Thinking about how to address this genuine crisis through the general statistical evidence and through particular schemes like AYW CMN is I believe still allowed, even in our De Pfeffelian age of boiled down status quo simplicities.

I note that you chose not to answer the second and third parts of my posting. How many small independent traders will be affected by your scenario, which I see has railways magically removed from any doomsday event...

 

[8H]

I don’t have to answer your decoy meaningless set up questions. Let me try to help you out with the basics, if your living breathing environment is becoming dangerous to you and yours do you start to make changes to the contributing factors? that is a substantive question, or do you just roll your eyes like you already have aka Frankie Howerd playing Francis Biggar in another Carry On film?

 

[HSTEd]

The railway is incapable of playing a bigger part.

It continues to cling to obsolescent working practices and refuses to change anything in ways that might make it capable of playing a bigger part.

Trying to force a low mobility society on our economy would be disastrous socially, economically and politically.

You'd get further putting automatic package handling into all new housing estates

 

[Llanigraham]

Is it permissable to reverse in-service under ETCS on the single track between Dyfi Junction and Machynlleth to avoid the time penalty of going all the way to the latter?

It would depend on where the section balises were, but I suspect it would have to happen at Machy station, which would be preferable as there may be passengers wishing to join there and not at Dyfi Junct, which has no road access.

 

[Llanigraham]

I don’t have to answer your decoy meaningless set up questions. Let me try to help you out with the basics, if your living breathing environment is becoming dangerous to you and yours do you start to make changes to the contributing factors? that is a substantive question, or do you just roll your eyes like you already have aka Frankie Howerd playing Francis Biggar in another Carry On film?

The problem is that all of the apparent "cures" for the situation do not seem to take into account that a lot of people live in remote rural areas, often farming communities, where there is no public transport, the nearest station can be 20 miles away, and the electric infastructure isn't adequate to support mass recharging systems.

And going back to this proposed line; unless Westminster and WAG suddenly find a huge money tree then building a new bridge over the Dyfi, and a new tunnel under Pendinas in Aber isn't going to happen, no matter what environmental things happen.

 

[8H]

The railway is incapable of playing a bigger part.

It continues to cling to obsolescent working practices and refuses to change anything in ways that might make it capable of playing a bigger part.

Trying to force a low mobility society on our economy would be disastrous socially, economically and politically.

You'd get further putting automatic package handling into all new housing estates

OK an idea at least, but of course new housing estates are a big part of the problem as they are often built 1930’s ribbon fashion along roads in the middle of nowhere with no shops and schools and no public transport planning. That is typical leave things as they are nothing can ever changeism.

 

[HSTEd]

OK an idea at least, but of course new housing estates are a big part of the problem as they are often built 1930’s ribbon fashion along roads in the middle of nowhere with no shops and schools and no public transport planning. That is typical leave things as they are nothing can ever changeism.

Why would housing with an automated package handling system need shops as we understand them?

As the system grows larger the number of actual shops will drop precipitously

 

[8H]

Why would housing with an automated package handling system need shops as we understand them?

As the system grows larger the number of actual shops will drop precipitously

I didn’t say they did, I think it was you who did ! I expect you will remember if this is true! I simply acknowledged that someone who doesn’t agree with me on this thread at least had an idea of their own to put. I didn’t even consider the merits of your suggestion. Perhaps in this instance you need to start a thread on an automated packaging system for housing estates to be fed by by car and delivery vans to isolated areas

 

[Llanigraham]

Why would housing with an automated package handling system need shops as we understand them?

As the system grows larger the number of actual shops will drop precipitously

How are you going to introduce that "system" to villages, perhaps 20 miles from the nearest town?
This is another example of people ignoring the rural world.

 

[yorkie]

Can we please stick to the topic, which is Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

Any further posts that are not relating to any proposals to reopen the railway will be removed without warning.

Thanks.

 

[6Gman]

It would depend on where the section balises were, but I suspect it would have to happen at Machy station, which would be preferable as there may be passengers wishing to join there and not at Dyfi Junct, which has no road access.

You make a very valid point.

If you are going to have a Carmarthen - Aberystwyth - Barmouth - Caernarfon - Bangor service it would be insane not to serve Machynlleth.

 

[talerddig]

The feasability study is specifically of the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, so we've gone a bit off track with the Dyfi bridge discussion, I suppose. By the way, the tunnel in the study was shorter and further out of town, joining the Cambrian line to the east of Llanbadarn, the study is available on the Traws Link website. However, given the attitude of the incumbent administrations in both governments, I don't foresee any money being made available or for it to go anywhere but the south east, so in the end we are just idly speculating, aren't we.

 

[Llanigraham]

Agreed, the problem is trying to persuade the hierarchy of Plaid Cymru of that!