Grand (?!) Central

[Bungle965]

The 180`s have to be one of the worst units that were made during the time of Alstom`s reliability troubles, other units had problems but not on the same scale as the 180`s over time the reliability has got better due to operators putting a lot of money into making them work.Even now GWR do not trust them enough not to brake down which is one of the reasons they do not use them at the weekends. I have used GC 180`s a few times, they are not the best inside but a refurbishment would sort out the tattiness, as with first class on the said company where a refurbishment of first class has taken place makes it much nicer to travel on. Not brilliant though, the ride quality is satisfactory at the best of times.
Sam

 

[Class 170101]

I think they're showing their age,

Last time I checked the HSTs were much older than the 180s.

 

[Domh245]

Last time I checked the HSTs were much older than the 180s.

The 175s and 180s are acting their age though. Like stroppy teenagers who don't want to have a shower!

 

[cactustwirly]

I don't have anything against the 175s (I quite like the interior). It's just the 180s.

They are the same train! Except the 180s has a slopey front and an extra 2 coaches.
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The 180`s have to be one of the worst units that were made during the time of Alstom`s reliability troubles, other units had problems but not on the same scale as the 180`s over time the reliability has got better due to operators putting a lot of money into making them work.Even now GWR do not trust them enough not to brake down which is one of the reasons they do not use them at the weekends. I have used GC 180`s a few times, they are not the best inside but a refurbishment would sort out the tattiness, as with first class on the said company where a refurbishment of first class has taken place makes it much nicer to travel on. Not brilliant though, the ride quality is satisfactory at the best of times.
Sam

No, the reason why GWR do not use them at weekends is that they are too expensive to operate, and there are enough turbos to cover the cotswold line.
They were only reintroduced to increase capacity in the Thames Valley because of the shortage of turbos.

 

[Crossover]

They still rattle, but I have found the Hull Trains sets to be better overall. That said, the last couple of journeys I have made have been in First Class which doesn't make for the best comparison

My only issue the last trip was although there were reservation cards in most of the seats, they were blank! Meaning on arrival at Doncaster quite a bit of confusion (They do seem to pick up a surprisingly large passenger load at Doncaster I've noticed, are the fares much cheaper than East Coast from there?)

I'm not sure if it just because they haven't been printed or what but I have seen it a few times on the GC services (be it I haven't travelled on a GC 180 since January)

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If the Calder Valley, Huddersfield and Ponte Carlo lines gets juiced, would there be any point of GC retaing their 180s? I'd rather see class 91s on the route.

The 180s are grubby, especially the seats, because people (mostly women) place their feet on the b****y seats having not realised that they have stood in dog crap / other unpleasant stuff that is often left to be marched all over on a pavement. My mate once had a brown mess that ended up smearing onto his trousers many thanks to a woman sticking her feet on his seat, needless to say my mate binned the trousers as they were ruined. Washing them wouldn't have got the excrement / chewing gummed mess out.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think the 180's are that bad, to be fair. Had many a pleasant Journey down to London on them (although worse, as getting a bit too busy for comfort lately). But they are competing with the best InterCity train ever built.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Last time I checked the HSTs were much older than the 180s.

Maybe so, but the HST's have benefitted from several refurbishments and reengineering projects over the years whereas the 180's haven't.

 

[47271]

On the blank reservation slips, I've also noticed that on the Sunderland HSTs - I avoid the 180s as stated above. It seems that they slip half the First Class coach and leave the other half. I've assumed that they have a primitive system whereby only half of seats are reservable and the allocated numbers never make it across to the seat slips, but that's just my theory.

There is plenty good about GC: the crew are spot on in my experience, and the HSTs (although the purple used to refurb the First Class is a bit lurid) being the main ones, and contrary to some of the points made on tired interiors, again I wouldn't include the HSTs in that bracket.

As for the 180 phobics amongst us. I have exactly the same problem with these appalling trains as I have with Voyagers: underfloor vibration that gets me to the point of nausea. Maybe it's just me, and I have the same problem with high frequency vibration on small turboprop planes. Or it may be something to do with cramming too much power down below, but strangely I find 185s perfectly acceptable. I very rarely use 175s (the last time was about eight years ago) so I don't have an opinion on the type.

Does anyone more technical have a view on the relationship between underfloor bhp and bad vibrations, it's something that I wonder about from time to time?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[jimm]

Even now GWR do not trust them enough not to brake down which is one of the reasons they do not use them at the weekends.

No, the reason why GWR do not use them at weekends is that they are too expensive to operate, and there are enough turbos to cover the cotswold line.
They were only reintroduced to increase capacity in the Thames Valley because of the shortage of turbos.

Reliability concerns were a factor when they came back to FGW but I don't think anyone is too worried they will break down these days - the post-2013 maintenance regime, supported by Alstom, has helped a lot. And I believe the terms of the agreement made by FGW with the DfT to take back the five 180s and the two Class 150/0s for Reading-Basingstoke peak work are also a factor in their limited appearances at weekends.

At weekends the ability to quickly couple or uncouple Turbo seats on Cotswold services at Oxford to handle higher demand between there and London is also helpful. A single 180 often used to struggle with the numbers travelling at weekends when they provided the bulk of the Oxford fasts in 2004-8.

While the 180s' return did indeed release Turbos from the Cotswold Line to strengthen weekday services in the Thames Valley, it also meant the Cotswold Line got back trains better suited to its needs than the Turbos for the times of the day when HSTs are capacity overkill.

It also reduced the number of 90mph trains using the fast lines between Paddington, Reading and Didcot. And there will be even fewer from next weekend, with some extra Class 180 round trips between London and Oxford on weekdays - plus extra HSTs as well - taking the place of several of the remaining Turbo-worked London-Oxford fast services, suggesting GWR is pretty confident the 180s are robust enough these days.

 

[Bungle965]

Interesting about GWR`s 180s thanks for clearing that up.
Sam

 

[Tetchytyke]

Grand Central are starting on the 180s, the refresh in first class with the leather seats is actually quite pleasant. They need to work on standard class now- new seat covers and carpets would probably do the trick, tbh.

I don't find the ride quality worse than a MkIII, especially if you have the misfortune to be at one end of a MkIII carriage. You don't get more bouncybouncy on a 180. The main thing I don't like with a 180 is the chemical toilet smell, which is something you don't get on MkIII or MkIV stock, even the ones with CET toilets.

Horses for courses really.

 

[DarloRich]

Grand Central are starting on the 180s, the refresh in first class with the leather seats is actually quite pleasant. They need to work on standard class now- new seat covers and carpets would probably do the trick, tbh.

I don't find the ride quality worse than a MkIII, especially if you have the misfortune to be at one end of a MkIII carriage. You don't get more bouncybouncy on a 180. The main thing I don't like with a 180 is the chemical toilet smell, which is something you don't get on MkIII or MkIV stock, even the ones with CET toilets.

Horses for courses really.

I agree. I have never really had a problem with the 180 ( of course the HST is better!) and they are no where near as bad as the OP suggests. As stated above they could do with an internal refit.

 

[anti-pacer]

I agree. I have never really had a problem with the 180 ( of course the HST is better!) and they are no where near as bad as the OP suggests. As stated above they could do with an internal refit.

They are nowhwere near as bad as the OP suggests, in your opinion. What I deem and what you deem bad may well be different.

 

[Retorus]

They are nowhwere near as bad as the OP suggests, in your opinion. What I deem and what you deem bad may well be different.

He shouldn't have to state that it's his opinion, that much is obvious. This is a discussion forum, after all.

 

[anti-pacer]

He shouldn't have to state that it's his opinion, that much is obvious. This is a discussion forum, after all.

It is, often based on opinion and not always on facts.