Fiddlers Ferry Power Station to stay open at least another year

[BuryBlue]

I don't expect anything to be done until the lights go out.

I remember it being quite an issue a few years ago, just after Hinkley C was proposed but it seems energy security has slipped back down the agenda again.

We need a lot of nuclear. Otherwise we risk being exposed to external markets (unless we reopen the coal mines ), because the North Sea and potentially fracking won't last, and when it gets cold people will begin to get very apprehensive about burning gas in power stations while they freeze at home because of their sky high heating bills. It's sad we sold all of our expertise years ago, I guess we will have to rely on Hitachi.

There was a good BBC documentary, 'If the Lights Go Out', which underlined the problems we may face in future, although as with all BBC documentaries about energy you have to ignore the renewable energy vitriol.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes. So obvious, isn't it?

Would you say that say that if - having NOT kept this power station on standby - next harsh winter your wife or daughter went into hospital and suffered a delay in some way because of a power cut?

More on topic, are you gonna be happy if and when your train is delayed, or cancelled due to power shortages?

When will people realise that renewables in many forms need back up, in the form of coal and nuclear and other traditional generation - especially to meet peak loads - and this needs to be counted into their real costs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for renewables where and when realistic - but for many, renewables is a religious belief as fanatical as any supposed loony cult. Unfortunately, this government seems to have been infected by the bug to boot.

We must be scrapping billions of pounds of perfectly decent power generation prematurely in this rush for the green religious perfection - and every day China is bringing on line more than we scrap in a year.

And the moment people suffer personal deprivation due to a power shortage, they are the first to complain.

To be fair, many of our coal stations are at end of life anyway. Ferrybridge C was 50 years old, Rugeley 45, Didcot 47 when decommissioned. These ages are typical. Most of them were planned for 50 years operation.

For base loads, the temporary solution is gas, with Nuclear being the long term (much as I hate Nuclear, its forte is base load).

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Imo new generation coal fired power stations should be built - carbon capture.
We must not allow the country to be at the mercy of outside problems.
Gas - should only be used for peak time loads etc. It is too useful a fuel to burn off full time in a power station. Gas boiler 90% + efficient. Gas powered electricity well less than half that efficiency I believe.
Barrage schemes may be the answer. Eg the Rance in France. Nuclear many safety issues - plus - leaving the cost for our children's children?

 

[najaB]

Barrage schemes may be the answer. Eg the Rance in France. Nuclear many safety issues - plus - leaving the cost for our children's children?

Barrages likely have a greater net environmental impact than nuclear. The safety issues are *hugely* blown out of proportion.

 

[Bald Rick]

Imo new generation coal fired power stations should be built - carbon capture.
We must not allow the country to be at the mercy of outside problems.
Gas - should only be used for peak time loads etc. It is too useful a fuel to burn off full time in a power station. Gas boiler 90% + efficient. Gas powered electricity well less than half that efficiency I believe.
Barrage schemes may be the answer. Eg the Rance in France. Nuclear many safety issues - plus - leaving the cost for our children's children?

If the French way is the answer, then its nuclear all the way. Currently supplying % of French demand. Routinely supplies 100%.

 

[moggie]

Imo new generation coal fired power stations should be built - carbon capture.
We must not allow the country to be at the mercy of outside problems.
Gas - should only be used for peak time loads etc. It is too useful a fuel to burn off full time in a power station. Gas boiler 90% + efficient. Gas powered electricity well less than half that efficiency I believe.
Barrage schemes may be the answer. Eg the Rance in France. Nuclear many safety issues - plus - leaving the cost for our children's children?

Some sense at last.

To my mind the most efficient generating plant should be used to support baseload. Efficiency should not only be in units of energy conversion but also in reliability of supply. In effect that means Coal / Biomass / Nuclear / CCGT.

At peak times and when plant is offline renewables (wind / Solar / hydro) and additional CCGT should take up the slack. Where renewables are generating above demand it should be CCGT that is switched out. What many in the green lobby do not want to admit is that for every MW of renewable power generation capacity you need the same fossil fuel or Nuclear capacity in reserve for when the renewables aren't contributing, often during high winter demand.

As has been noted CCGT is our single biggest generating capability but at varying cost depending on individual plant efficiency. Wind / Solar are still small by comparison and will remain so in this country for the foreseeable and will always be unreliable unless power storage technology is bolted on. You can switch them off, you cant guarantee to be able to switch them on when needed.

Coal should be replaced with something equally reliable, be it more CCGT or Nuclear or Biomass. With such a high reliance on imported gas CCGT may already be at the top end of sensible when it comes to diversity and security of supply (Much of it now comes from the Middle East as liquid gas via sea transport). Nuclear........it will happen when we can afford it and foreign suppliers have us where they want to be commercially. Biomass......inevitably there must be a tipping point in the world where the demand outstrips the ability to supply. How far we are from that no idea.

 

[najaB]

Wind / Solar are still small by comparison and will remain so in this country for the foreseeable...

Renewable sources contributed around 25% of electricity supply in 14/15 so small but not insignificant - approximately the same amount as was generated by coal.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Renewable sources contributed around 25% of electricity supply in 14/15 so small but not insignificant - approximately the same amount as was generated by coal.

But of course "Renewable" includes Biomass as well as Wind and Solar. Whether Biomass is truly renewable is open to debate given the carbon footprint of bringing the wood pellets from America, transporting them from port to power station in the UK and the considerable CO2 emissions from burning them.

 

[najaB]

But of course "Renewable" includes Biomass as well as Wind and Solar...

True, I suppose. But the majority of it will be wind - you just need to spend some time travelling through Scotland to realise just how much installed capacity there is - and more going up all the time.

 

[miami]

The problem with nuclear is the long term storage costs. Safety is pretty much 100%, look at the Fukushima deaths compared with road casualties, or coal mining, or even the tsunami that caused the problems, but you're still signing up for thousands of years of storage.

 

[cjmillsnun]

They all have their issues.

Nuclear you have storage and initial cost.

Coal (even with carbon capture) you have emissions and efficiency

Oil - You have cost, efficiency and security of supply

Renewables - the only reliable source is Hydro and there are no major Hydro stations and it is unlikely we will build any.

Gas - CCGT - Security of Supply and Carbon emissions, OCGT add efficiency to CCGT, CCGTs could be better if they could be supplied by biomethane or fracking, however at this time, anaerobic digesters are small scale and fracking would have to be forced through as HMG policy due to local objections.

Biomass - It's not really any greener than coal once you factor in transport.

Part of the solution could be another HVDC interconnector, but we tend to export in the winter.

If you want to see the current energy makeup for the electricity demand in the UK, have a look at http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

They all have their issues.



Biomass - It's not really any greener than coal once you factor in transport.

It is; the coal has to be transported to power statins too, and most of it comes a long way!