First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[matt_splat]

I may well be wrong but I doubt we'll see extension of the P&R into the bus station/rail station area as it would require additional vehicles and make them subject to delays
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Are those confirmed changes?

I can see the logic of the additional evening and Sunday 173/4 to replace the 178s and some later journeys running through to Wells as placement journeys

The 178 not serving Tesco at Old Mills makes sense if that is left to the 172/179. Not serving Chandag is a little curious but if it's part of a general re-jig of Keynsham routes....

At least I'll be able to get a bus from Radstock to Farrington and then onto the 376....something that I've usually done with a 379 to Temple Cloud and then onto the 376. Just wonder where they might turn the 172 in Farrington or some alternating loop (Old Mills - Paulton - Farrington - Old Mills?)

the 173 / 174 later runs will be more positioning movements to get busses back to wells from Bath from what i have been led to beleve.

i would expect the 172 will turn around in the housing estate in farrington.

the 173 i have been led to beleve will not run on a sunday the 174 will which will be a saving of 1 bus as the 161 won't need to run i guess chilcompton will lose out on a sunday service

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

the 173 / 174 later runs will be more positioning movements to get busses back to wells from Bath from what i have been led to beleve.

i would expect the 172 will turn around in the housing estate in farrington.

the 173 i have been led to beleve will not run on a sunday the 174 will which will be a saving of 1 bus as the 161 won't need to run i guess chilcompton will lose out on a sunday service

You could probably speed it up and run the 174 via Chilcompton on a Sunday. However, the massed ranks of folk in Binegar and Gurney Slade will be shaking their pitchforks in disgust

As I say, the evening runs would be placement journeys so think that makes sense; IIRC, Wells used to do the evening runs on the 178 and then ran back with a late 173 (2305?) that omitted Gurney Slade and got back about 00:20

You're probably right about the 172 turning in a loop round the estate and out by the farm shop. Just hope the locals and their visitors park sensibly

 

[carlberry]

Does anyone in the know what the changes would be to the Bath park and ride?

My only hope is that all services, including lansdown, start and terminate as close to the bus/railway station as possible, maybe the existing 41 Odd Down park and ride starts and terminates.

The registered changes are to timings. The P&R services arnt designed to integrate and the Lansdown one would need twice as many buses to cross the city. Merging Odd Down and Newbridge might make sense but Odd Down users would lose out (compared with where the are dropped now) and it might cost an extra bus anyway.

 

[vicbury]

The registered changes are to timings. The P&R services arnt designed to integrate and the Lansdown one would need twice as many buses to cross the city. Merging Odd Down and Newbridge might make sense but Odd Down users would lose out (compared with where the are dropped now) and it might cost an extra bus anyway.

Having met with a public transport officer at BANES last year, i can confirm that there is no desire to extend any of the park and rides as this would compromise reliability and journey times.
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And apart from the big reductions in Wiltshire services, cutbacks elsewhere, there's due to be a complete network overhaul in Bath, virtually all B7RLEs have gone from Bath, X39 now has 7 year old deckers compared to 3 year old singles, 319 has been renumbered and has deckers on use, 161 and 184 were cutback and replaced with 174 and finally in Wells 376 got deckers, i haven't really seen much has changed at Bath under Sherrington either.

I was more thinking of quality of service rather than scope of service, but thanks for filling me in.

 

[matt_splat]

You could probably speed it up and run the 174 via Chilcompton on a Sunday. However, the massed ranks of folk in Binegar and Gurney Slade will be shaking their pitchforks in disgust

As I say, the evening runs would be placement journeys so think that makes sense; IIRC, Wells used to do the evening runs on the 178 and then ran back with a late 173 (2305?) that omitted Gurney Slade and got back about 00:20

You're probably right about the 172 turning in a loop round the estate and out by the farm shop. Just hope the locals and their visitors park sensibly

those evening runs infact use to be ran by bristol.....

i have been told to expect to see a press release towards the end of the month

 

[vicbury]

Bath Norton will be the following

171 - Bath - Peasedown Circle Bath (EVERY HOUR)
172 - Bath - Farrington Gurney via Paulton (Every 30 mins)
173 - Bath - Wells (As current but extra evening busses / sundays)
174 - Bath - Wells (As current gaining some later journeys to get busses to wells and also sundays)
175 - Wells - Shepton (As current 161 but sundays replaced by 174)
178 - Radstock - Bristol ( Run by Bristol not serving tescos or the estates in keynsham)

Expect some interesting changes to the services running around keynsham - bristol also all the bath stuff is very up in the air i have been led to believe that the whole city network is being revamped and changed

Can you reveal any of the Bath city changes? Hoping for nothing negative to the 14!

 

[matt_splat]

Can you reveal any of the Bath city changes? Hoping for nothing negative to the 14!

from what i have been told some renumbering will be happening and some cross city services will be spilt to try and improve reliability i get the impression the 4 kingsway - bus station and the 1 bus station to upper weston will be paired together again but we shall see

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

those evening runs infact use to be ran by bristol.....

i have been told to expect to see a press release towards the end of the month

Wasn't there a run that was 17:46 or 18:46 ex Wells that then returned at 23:05 or 23:15 or something and it did a run in between to MSN? In fact, I think I suggested a return to that sort of arrangement a few months ago on this thread
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from what i have been told some renumbering will be happening and some cross city services will be spilt to try and improve reliability i get the impression the 4 kingsway - bus station and the 1 bus station to upper weston will be paired together again but we shall see

If there's one that needs splitting, I'd go for the 13. The London Road traffic disrupts that service markedly, despite priorities

 

[matt_splat]

Wasn't there a run that was 17:46 or 18:46 ex Wells that then returned at 23:05 or 23:15 or something and it did a run in between to MSN? In fact, I think I suggested a return to that sort of arrangement a few months ago on this thread
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If there's one that needs splitting, I'd go for the 13. The London Road traffic disrupts that service markedly, despite priorities

i beleve they are being split but we shall wait and see....

what use to happen was bath ran one duty a day on the 173 this changed when the b10s arrived and wells took all 3 on and the last trip 19:05 started to run....

i know there use to be two bristol based busses working evenings bath - norton - bristol and one radstock based bus not sure how it all worked

 

[ValleyLines142]

If there's one that needs splitting, I'd go for the 13. The London Road traffic disrupts that service markedly, despite priorities

Which routes in Bath are cross city? Is it the 1, 4, 13 and 14?

I also did not realise the 5 ran every ten minutes!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

i beleve they are being split but we shall wait and see....

what use to happen was bath ran one duty a day on the 173 this changed when the b10s arrived and wells took all 3 on and the last trip 19:05 started to run....

i know there use to be two bristol based busses working evenings bath - norton - bristol and one radstock based bus not sure how it all worked

Indeed, there was a gap in the service in the morning and so Bath ran the 10:05/13:05/16:05 departures and returns at 11:39/14:39/17:39 IIRC. Mind you, I'm relying on memory here. However, at one time, I am fairly certain there was a post 23:00 run to Wells that basically ran express south of Chilcompton
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Which routes in Bath are cross city? Is it the 1, 4, 13 and 14?

I also did not realise the 5 ran every ten minutes!

5 got upped when the 231 got axed

 

[matt_splat]

Indeed, there was a gap in the service in the morning and so Bath ran the 10:05/13:05/16:05 departures and returns at 11:39/14:39/17:39 IIRC. Mind you, I'm relying on memory here. However, at one time, I am fairly certain there was a post 23:00 run to Wells that basically ran express south of Chilcompton
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that might well have been before i do remember there being a 773 which use to run Bath - Peasedown - Radstock - Norton - Paulton - Chilcompton - Wells - Shepton

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed, there was a gap in the service in the morning and so Bath ran the 10:05/13:05/16:05 departures and returns at 11:39/14:39/17:39 IIRC. Mind you, I'm relying on memory here. However, at one time, I am fairly certain there was a post 23:00 run to Wells that basically ran express south of Chilcompton
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that might well have been before i do remember there being a 773 which use to run Bath - Peasedown - Radstock - Norton - Paulton - Chilcompton - Wells - Shepton

I don't recall that 773 running to Shepton. I do remember the Sunday one that omitted Binegar and Gurney Slade but instead ran through to Glastonbury.

 

[Private Baxter]

The 773 was a Friday and Saturday only service which as you say ran Bath to Wells omitting Binegar arriving in Wells as 00.20. It was still running in 2004, but stopped running some time before 2006 but can't remember when. I think some bus stop signs might still have 773 on them! I don't remember if at any stage it went on to Shepton, if it did it must have been before 1998. There was however a late Friday and Saturday only 161 (or 661 in the early 00s) which ran Wells to Shepton (ran back empty). Can't remember its departure time but it was after midnight so maybe was timed to connect with the arrival of 773.

Anyway, interesting changes coming up, as always. Sensible move with 178 going to MH. Perhaps a renumbering of that service might follow in the next year or two. Do we know the frequency of the 178? And will it be a suitable alternative to the 379?

Obviously Wells will not now be doing those services, and I assume Bath are doing the 171. Will Wells be doing 172 perhaps, or will they get something else? Or has this info not been revealed yet?

 

[matt_splat]

The 773 was a Friday and Saturday only service which as you say ran Bath to Wells omitting Binegar arriving in Wells as 00.20. It was still running in 2004, but stopped running some time before 2006 but can't remember when. I think some bus stop signs might still have 773 on them! I don't remember if at any stage it went on to Shepton, if it did it must have been before 1998. There was however a late Friday and Saturday only 161 (or 661 in the early 00s) which ran Wells to Shepton (ran back empty). Can't remember its departure time but it was after midnight so maybe was timed to connect with the arrival of 773.

Anyway, interesting changes coming up, as always. Sensible move with 178 going to MH. Perhaps a renumbering of that service might follow in the next year or two. Do we know the frequency of the 178? And will it be a suitable alternative to the 379?

Obviously Wells will not now be doing those services, and I assume Bath are doing the 171. Will Wells be doing 172 perhaps, or will they get something else? Or has this info not been revealed yet?

Bath will be doing just the 171 wells will do the rest

 

[THarris123]

The 773 was a Friday and Saturday only service which as you say ran Bath to Wells omitting Binegar arriving in Wells as 00.20. It was still running in 2004, but stopped running some time before 2006 but can't remember when. I think some bus stop signs might still have 773 on them! I don't remember if at any stage it went on to Shepton, if it did it must have been before 1998. There was however a late Friday and Saturday only 161 (or 661 in the early 00s) which ran Wells to Shepton (ran back empty). Can't remember its departure time but it was after midnight so maybe was timed to connect with the arrival of 773.

Anyway, interesting changes coming up, as always. Sensible move with 178 going to MH. Perhaps a renumbering of that service might follow in the next year or two. Do we know the frequency of the 178? And will it be a suitable alternative to the 379?

Obviously Wells will not now be doing those services, and I assume Bath are doing the 171. Will Wells be doing 172 perhaps, or will they get something else? Or has this info not been revealed yet?

Wells is indeed doing 172. 11 is PVR - 173 to Bath, then 172 to Farrington, then to Bath, then 174 back to Wells. Drivers on a 5.5 hour working.

 

[DaveHarries]

Today's VOSA Bus Service Registrations for the Western Region run to 82 entries for today. For First S&A theirs can be summarised as follows:

RT = Changes to Route
TT = Changes to Timetable
SP = Changes to Stopping Places

1 Bath (Upper Weston - Bus Station) (RT, SP, TT)
2 Bath (Combe Down - Bus Station) (RT, TT)
21 Newbridge Park & Ride (TT)
31 Lansdown Park & Ride (TT)
39/X39 Bath - Bristol (RT, TT)
41 Odd Down Park & Ride (TT)
175 Wells - Shepton Mallet (RT, SP, TT) (was Bath - PSJ which becomes 171)
179 Bath - Writhlington (RT, TT)

The changes to the 39/X39 will be down to feedback arising from the consultation which took place earlier this year but noticeable is the omission of Service 38 from that registration as I have seen it as 38/39/X39 in the past.

Also, as has already been said, the registration for the 175 is to allow it to replace the 161: the old 175 as run by Somerbus between Bath and Peasdown St. John will become Service 171 (which used to be Wells - Wookey IIRC).

I reckon there will be more registrations to come from First S&A as well as some from First Bristol who don't appear today.

HTIOI,
Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bath will be doing just the 171 wells will do the rest

If that is the actual proposal (as we've had a lot of highly aerated postings about Wells doing the 178/379 in recent times) then I think it makes a lot of sense.

Bath are down on drivers whilst Wells have plenty so eases the burden on Bath depot. Also, the loss of the 379 as a fast link to Bristol is a bit disappointing but it is perhaps tempered by a faster 178 and that may help support the continued existence of that service.

The next obvious questions will be in terms of rolling stock - the return of the itinerant 59 plates or will they simply transfer down some of 66881-6 or even 69253? And, of course, the current 47544-50 - will some move to MH for the 178 or stay in Bath for the 171 and other work?

Perhaps a little too early to speculate (chastises himself ) and whatever the speculation anyway, the plan may well be different.

 

[Private Baxter]

Similar arrangement (but opposite!!) to when Wells did 379. But in the same way that only lasted a couple of years, so too I wonder if 172 will eventually be Bath operated. Further losses for Bath, with 171 being but a small consolation.

Too soon to speculate of course (and in the even we're almost always wrong) but hopefully 69448/57/8 will return to Wells for these services. But they might have to come off 126. I reckon 171 (Dave Harries that was once the Wells to Wookey service) will make do with darts, but as to where the streetlites go is any body's guess. If the gossip of a couple of months ago is true that X2/X3 will be converted to deckers soon then that might just mean those in WM are sent elsewhere. I'd like to say the 5 and 14.
As for 178, hmm I foresee MH shoving any thing on that!
But we're miles away from all that so I won't get any more carried away!!

 

[THarris123]

Similar arrangement (but opposite!!) to when Wells did 379. But in the same way that only lasted a couple of years, so too I wonder if 172 will eventually be Bath operated. Further losses for Bath, with 171 being but a small consolation.

Too soon to speculate of course (and in the even we're almost always wrong) but hopefully 69448/57/8 will return to Wells for these services. But they might have to come off 126. I reckon 171 (Dave Harries that was once the Wells to Wookey service) will make do with darts, but as to where the streetlites go is any body's guess. If the gossip of a couple of months ago is true that X2/X3 will be converted to deckers soon then that might just mean those in WM are sent elsewhere. I'd like to say the 5 and 14.
As for 178, hmm I foresee MH shoving any thing on that!
But we're miles away from all that so I won't get any more carried away!!

Its difficult to guess.

Wells will need the following from Sept:
11 vehicles for 172/3/4
8 vehicles for 376 (PVR)
1 for 175
2 for 126 (1 board surprisingly going back to Weston - obviously they now have enough staff?)

That's 14 B7s, plus 3 spare B7s. Could be interesting that. Can't see the solo staying - hopefully now Sherringtons seen it a few times in Bath, he might realise having it down there is a bad plan. I'm hoping the B7L goes away too. But my guess will probably be 69448/57/8 go to Wells again, 60912 heads off and a couple of B7RLEs come in from Weston. Or - we receive the B7RLEs from Hoeford which will be displaced from E300s. They add up to 17. Means that the 59 ref B7s head to Weston for 7 and displaces the 54 plates into Bristol to replace B7Ls.

 

[Private Baxter]

To be honest I've not quite worked out what the current running situation with 126 is anyway!

Currently they have twenty buses for a pvr of eighteen. Based on this from September they will have a pvr of 22, so they will need an extra four or five buses (depending whether they want two or three spare)

Sorry, but I see the solo staying for 175!

 

[THarris123]

To be honest I've not quite worked out what the current running situation with 126 is anyway!

Currently they have twenty buses for a pvr of eighteen. Based on this from September they will have a pvr of 22, so they will need an extra four or five buses (depending whether they want two or three spare)

Sorry, but I see the solo staying for 175!

Currently PVR 18, with 21 vehicles
Sept will very likely be PVR 22, with 25 vehicles

Increase in 4 - still 1 less than they had before May. Might change though later in the year - could see some changes to 376.

 

[matt_splat]

Also in September first maybe in a position to take back the 67 service which I beleve bakers are doing because of a shortage of drivers...

 

[Private Baxter]

Currently PVR 18, with 21 vehicles
Sept will very likely be PVR 22, with 25 vehicles

Increase in 4 - still 1 less than they had before May. Might change though later in the year - could see some changes to 376.

Just 20 isn't it? 11 B7RLEs, 8 streetdecks and a solo. Or am I forgeting one?

Also in September first maybe in a position to take back the 67 service which I beleve bakers are doing because of a shortage of drivers...

That would be brilliant if that were to happen, so lets hope so.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just 20 isn't it? 11 B7RLEs, 8 streetdecks and a solo. Or am I forgeting one?

That would be brilliant if that were to happen, so lets hope so.

Is 60912 showing on WS these days?
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Currently PVR 18, with 21 vehicles
Sept will very likely be PVR 22, with 25 vehicles

Increase in 4 - still 1 less than they had before May. Might change though later in the year - could see some changes to 376.

However, that Sep figure is still an increase on the situation a year or two ago when the PVR was 18/19?
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Also in September first maybe in a position to take back the 67 service which I beleve bakers are doing because of a shortage of drivers...

That said, that will coincide with some of the summer work cooling off. Will have to wait and see.

Off topic - not heard from our South Somerset posters (Ron and Mike). Hope they're OK and their relative silence is a reflection of stability in the area
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Its difficult to guess.

Wells will need the following from Sept:
11 vehicles for 172/3/4
8 vehicles for 376 (PVR)
1 for 175
2 for 126 (1 board surprisingly going back to Weston - obviously they now have enough staff?)

That's 14 B7s, plus 3 spare B7s. Could be interesting that. Can't see the solo staying - hopefully now Sherringtons seen it a few times in Bath, he might realise having it down there is a bad plan. I'm hoping the B7L goes away too. But my guess will probably be 69448/57/8 go to Wells again, 60912 heads off and a couple of B7RLEs come in from Weston. Or - we receive the B7RLEs from Hoeford which will be displaced from E300s. They add up to 17. Means that the 59 ref B7s head to Weston for 7 and displaces the 54 plates into Bristol to replace B7Ls.

Think you need to just dial it down slightly; Theres not been anything about any B7s heading from Hoeford. More likely is that it'll just be some B7RLEs from the existing. The new Eclipse vehicles are long e200MMCs IIRC.

 

[THarris123]

Is 60912 showing on WS these days?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


However, that Sep figure is still an increase on the situation a year or two ago when the PVR was 18/19?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That said, that will coincide with some of the summer work cooling off. Will have to wait and see.

Off topic - not heard from our South Somerset posters (Ron and Mike). Hope they're OK and their relative silence is a reflection of stability in the area
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Think you need to just dial it down slightly; Theres not been anything about any B7s heading from Hoeford. More likely is that it'll just be some B7RLEs from the existing. The new Eclipse vehicles are long e200MMCs IIRC.

Well i did give one option that was quite plausible. Where are the B7RLEs heading after Hoeford? They'll either stay in Hampshire and displace something else (maybe Scanias), but where will those vehicles head? They could indeed go anywhere, but I'd like to think they'll head our way.

It is E200MMCs, but are they the Max version? I prefer to call them E300s instead (although I get a bit of flack from that!)

60912 is indeed working in Wells, usually on 126 or 161.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well i did give one option that was quite plausible. Where are the B7RLEs heading after Hoeford? They'll either stay in Hampshire and displace something else (maybe Scanias), but where will those vehicles head? They could indeed go anywhere, but I'd like to think they'll head our way.

It is E200MMCs, but are they the Max version? I prefer to call them E300s instead (although I get a bit of flack from that!)

60912 is indeed working in Wells, usually on 126 or 161.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see the Eclipse B7RLEs head to FWoE. Think they'd be great on the 172/3/4 as I think that would benefit from an upgrade in image and quality to encourage further passenger growth.

That said, we could put forward all manner of options that would be equally plausible viz

• As you say, the Eclipse ones stay in FHD and allow the Omnicities to move to join similar ones in Potteries OR
• They go to South Wales to upgrade the Cymru Clipper services that currently have 2005-7 B7RLEs OR
• They go to replace the assorted B7RLEs, Scanias and Streetlites on the 265 with the Streetlites sent to Somerset to replace hired fleet/non PSVAR deckers/B7Ls OR
• None of the above

You may be right and I'd be happy if you were but my gut feeling is that we're unlikely to see them

The e200MMCs are the long wheelbase type (AFAIK). Seen the similar ones with Stagecoach in Norfolk, and whilst not keen on the psychedelic seating, they do look well appointed.

 

[ValleyLines142]

5 got upped when the 231 got axed

Didn't realise the 5 was remotely similar to the 231!

 

[Marc]

Also in September first maybe in a position to take back the 67 service which I beleve bakers are doing because of a shortage of drivers...

i think bakers are likely to keep the 67. im not awaire of it being a temporary arrangment.

Didn't realise the 5 was remotely similar to the 231!

it isnt but withdrawing 231 did free up several buses which made it possible to increase the pvr of 5 by one.

anyone know why the crosvile training dart was in bath last week? seams a long way to take trainey drivers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Didn't realise the 5 was remotely similar to the 231!

It's not but you know that

As Marc has said, the axing of the 231 freed up 5 vehicles and a number of drivers. This allowed the upping of the PVR by one on the 5, the 13 and the 10 IIRC. The other two were a saving that allowed the final two B10BLEs to be withdrawn and sent to BoS