Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
Maybe if you press the help point they'll get you a taxi. I think that happens in Scotland a lot where disabled passengers can't travel for whatever reason.

Would you do that if you couldn't get on a train?

RailUK Forums

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
Would you do that if you couldn't get on a train?

Yes if that's what was being arranged for me.

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
Maybe if you press the help point they'll get you a taxi. I think that happens in Scotland a lot where disabled passengers can't travel for whatever reason.

It is also normal practice on LOROL.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
Yes if that's what was being arranged for me.

How long would you be willing to wait for it?
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AlterEgo said:
It is also normal practice on LOROL.

What percentage of London black cabs are wheelchair accessible?

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
What percentage of London black cabs are wheelchair accessible?

They don't use black cabs. They have a specific contractor which supplies only accessible taxis.

Booking of alternative road transport is standard on the railway, where the station is inaccessible to the user. ATW's network is a nightmare for this...

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
How long would you be willing to wait for it?
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What percentage of London black cabs are wheelchair accessible?

It depends on the frequency of the trains. if the next train arrived and the taxi wasn't there i'd get on the train.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
It depends on the frequency of the trains. if the next train arrived and the taxi wasn't there i'd get on the train.

Who would get you on the train though if OBS doesn't do platform duties?

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
Who would get you on the train though if OBS doesn't do platform duties?

You'd be waiting for the taxi then - which is standard practice, and not contrary to the Equality Act *as far as I'm aware*.

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
Who would get you on the train though if OBS doesn't do platform duties?

Nobody would which is why I said press the help point.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

AlterEgo said:
They don't use black cabs. They have a specific contractor which supplies only accessible taxis.

Booking of alternative road transport is standard on the railway, where the station is inaccessible to the user. ATW's network is a nightmare for this...

You still don't understand, Southern out of Metro area have been able to offer spontaneous travel for 25 years, this retrospective step will pretty much destroy this.

I have use the contractor in London who use the same wheelchair accessible black cabs you see on the ranks in London when Thameslink have engineering works, you spend upwards of 20 minutes for them to turn up and that's in London!

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

I think the disabled should make better use of the Dial a Bus type services. These are very expensive to operate and are laid on for people who don't make good use of them.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
I think the disabled should make better use of the Dial a Bus type services. These are very expensive to operate and are laid on for people who don't make good use of them.

So on the same basis, passangers should have relied more on getting taxis between statoons to avoid canceled trains or thowe that would've avoided certain stops during Southern problems?

What's the difference?

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
You still don't understand, Southern out of Metro area have been able to offer spontaneous travel for 25 years, this retrospective step will pretty much destroy this.

I have use the contractor in London who use the same wheelchair accessible black cabs you see on the ranks in London when Thameslink have engineering works, you spend upwards of 20 minutes for them to turn up and that's in London!

I understand it's a step backwards and I'm not trying to sugarcoat a crappy pill for you.

I also understand it probably still complies with the Equality Act.

Harsh realities I'm afraid...

JamesTT · 23 Jul 2016

How about trains that previously had conductors and are going to have an OBS. If the OBS is not available they can only call at manned stations?

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

If you turn up at the station and can't get on the train and the TOC makes arrangements for you to get to your destination safely, i really don't see what there is to complain about. Plus you probably would travel free of charge because a taxi driver doesn't care if you have bought a ticket or not.

HH · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks: the needle is stuck. You've made the same point about 200 times now in this thread. Why not spend the time raising it with MPs, starting an online petition, etc., which,even if it is a very small chance, is still infinitely more likely to actually achieve something?

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

JamesTT said:
How about trains that previously had conductors and are going to have an OBS. If the OBS is not available they can only call at manned stations?

Why would you think that?

absolutelymilk · 23 Jul 2016

AlterEgo said:
Why would you think that?

So that disabled people can get on/off. As a supporter of DOO, the main objections I can see are from disabled people who are worried that if an OBS is delayed on another train/ill/otherwise unavailable then the train will run anyway, which is fine with me unless the train is stopping at an unmanned station in which case disabled passengers will not be able to board.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

HH said:
speedy_sticks: the needle is stuck. You've made the same point about 200 times now in this thread. Why not spend the time raising it with MPs, starting an online petition, etc., which,even if it is a very small chance, is still infinitely more likely to actually achieve something?

It shows that certain people on this board just don't care about the disabled and vulnerable folks. This is a very negative reflection on current Management within Southern Rail.

Once again you are degrading travel for those who rely on it the most.

What's the point of spending millions on infrastructure if you can't get the basics right.

Southerm used to care about the passanger.....

Once again I would ask all on this board who book EVERY JOURNEY 24 hours in advance?

Equality is the key here and it's obviously in breach.

I put it to people here that you shouldn't be complaining about cancelled trains and trains missing stops, or your just as unqualified ad me it seems to expect equality in rail travel.

There is an easy solution to all this, it's just not being done and certain people here just don't seem to care a dam...

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

absolutelymilk said:
So that disabled people can get on/off. As a supporter of DOO, the main objections I can see are from disabled people who are worried that if an OBS is delayed on another train/ill/otherwise unavailable then the train will run anyway, which is fine with me unless the train is stopping at an unmanned station in which case disabled passengers will not be able to board.

There are already trains which are DOO which call at stations with no staff.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

absolutelymilk said:
So that disabled people can get on/off. As a supporter of DOO, the main objections I can see are from disabled people who are worried that if an OBS is delayed on another train/ill/otherwise unavailable then the train will run anyway, which is fine with me unless the train is stopping at an unmanned station in which case disabled passengers will not be able to board.

My other main concern is staffed stations where a platform isn't staffed, impossible to get off if communication fails.

I know a few disabled passangers who have their local train station phone numbers for this reason
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AlterEgo said:
There are already trains which are DOO which call at stations with no staff.

Where?

That's like telling giving a large person more unhealthy food even though you know it wI'll kill them

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
My other main concern is staffed stations where a platform isn't staffed, impossible to get off if communication fails.

I know a few disabled passangers who have their local train station phone numbers for this reason

Presumably if staff put you on the train then they will still be there to get you back off the train.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
Presumably if staff put you on the train then they will still be there to get you back off the train.

I was on a Thameslink DOO train at St Pancras International, they didn't tell Three Bridges I was coming so couldn't get off the train.

SPADTrap · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
If you turn up at the station and can't get on the train and the TOC makes arrangements for you to get to your destination safely, i really don't see what there is to complain about. Plus you probably would travel free of charge because a taxi driver doesn't care if you have bought a ticket or not.

Pretty bad image for a modern railway if it cannot convey mobility impaired passengers, how is that progress?

AlterEgo · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
Where?

That's like telling giving a large person more unhealthy food even though you know it wI'll kill them

GTR is wholly DOO, and call at stations which are unstaffed for portions of the day's service.

Look at Cricklewood station. It has 24h service yet staffing is available only for just over half the day. There's also no ramp for train access and one platform can't even be reached step-free.

This appears to still satisfy the law.

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

Haig paxton said:
Presumably if staff put you on the train then they will still be there to get you back off the train.

I was on a Thameslink DOO train at St Pancras International, they didn't tell Three Bridges I was coming so couldn't get off the train.

My main concern is what happens in that situation under OBS?

Carlisle · 23 Jul 2016

highdyke said:
I don't really see the problem with this because rail is right now a growing industry, and everyone can be accommodated and not chucked on the scrapheap with a little flexibility on both sides.

Theoretically true and was rarely if ever a problem in BR days, but nowadays the different companies don't always cooperate that well eg the GTR trolley contract staff given about 4 days redundancy notice and freight drivers being offered an alternative depot many miles away from their current one when there are passanger TOC depots much closer

speedy_sticks · 23 Jul 2016

AlterEgo said:
GTR is wholly DOO, and call at stations which are unstaffed for portions of the day's service.

Look at Cricklewood station. It has 24h service yet staffing is available only for just over half the day. There's also no ramp for train access and one platform can't even be reached step-free.

This appears to still satisfy the law.

GTR Isn't wholly DOO Yet.

Haig paxton · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
I was on a Thameslink DOO train at St Pancras International, they didn't tell Three Bridges I was coming so couldn't get off the train.

My main concern is what happens in that situation under OBS?

Pull the cord.

SPADTrap · 23 Jul 2016

speedy_sticks said:
GTR Isn't wholly DOO Yet.

Flipping superb comment for him to make in this thread, the mind boggles :lol:

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Haig paxton said:
Pull the cord.

Then what? Can that person reach it? What if not?

Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

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