Pendolino interior

[Clansman]

I've nothing wrong with the Pendolino's as long as I have a window view seat ratherthan just a wall and 2 coat hangers.

Weren't the Pendolinos (and Voyagers?) Branson's preferred choice of new train because he wanted a design similar to that of Italy's railway? Maybe we could of ended up with a tilting train which was better for space, window views and overall better ambience than some may say about the Pendolinos - Old Mk5 design or more 225s?

 

[class387]

The body *was* adapted from the Euro-Pendolino design. Look at them side by side, it is obvious. What is also obvious is that shrinking the train vertically to fit UK loading gauge has resulted in smaller windows.

By the way, the newer SBB/FS Euro-Pendolinos are terrible in 2nd - the seats are far too narrow and have stupid cupholders that get in the way of your knees. Fixtures and fittings are also very poor quality, and the PIS barely works at times - quite different to the UK version! I'd take a VT one any day over one of those.

The old ex-Cisalpino ones were quite comfortable though, despite their horrendous reliability and so are the ICNs, which is sort of a Pendolino. I will be on a ETR610 (on a service that SBB says is full and standing) next week so will see how that turns out. From the pictures think i prefer them, but they are hardly an accurate representation of the travel experience.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've nothing wrong with the Pendolino's as long as I have a window view seat ratherthan just a wall and 2 coat hangers.

Weren't the Pendolinos (and Voyagers?) Branson's preferred choice of new train because he wanted a design similar to that of Italy's railway? Maybe we could of ended up with a tilting train which was better for space, window views and overall better ambience than some may say about the Pendolinos - Old Mk5 design or more 225s?

I read in a magazine (so no guarantee it is true) that Branson wanted his railway to 'replicate air travel'.

 

[J-2739]

I read in a magazine (so no guarantee it is true) that Branson wanted his railway to 'replicate air travel'.

Perhaps the small windows is the consequence of that philosophy.

 

[fireftrm]

One thing is for sure, which is that the Pendolino interior feeling of 'cramped' and small window sizing has nothing to with tilt, or loading gauge. Travel in a Mk4 coach for proof.

 

[Bletchleyite]

ICNs have typical SBB narrow seats (but then near enough all Swiss are skinny) but otherwise decent. I think they have more in common with Voyagers though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Be warned though, a small number of ICN services are run using New Pendolinos. Check on reisezuege.ch.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[class387]

ICNs have typical SBB narrow seats (but then near enough all Swiss are skinny) but otherwise decent. I think they have more in common with Voyagers though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Be warned though, a small number of ICN services are run using New Pendolinos. Check on reisezuege.ch.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Haven't got any ICNs this time, though I have one booked New Pendolino (EC13).

 

[Clansman]

I read in a magazine (so no guarantee it is true) that Branson wanted his railway to 'replicate air travel'.

He should of went to Amtrak then.

Although, he's got the small windows, lack of window/seat alignment, lack of space, feeling of being in a tube, and the miniature soft drink cans down to a T in comparison.

 

[317666]

I don't mind the 390s personally - I definitely think they have a better interior than a Mk4 set, not to mention ride quality which is just terrible on a Mk4!

 

[Clansman]

I don't mind the 390s personally - I definitely think they have a better interior than a Mk4 set, not to mention ride quality which is just terrible on a Mk4!

Much smoother on a Pendolino to be fair. The mk4s are good mostly, but have that constant annoying huming noise (electric going through to the DVT?) and air conditioning, which shut off and startup in a second whilst going through dead zones (I don't know the correct name).

 

[fowler9]

Much smoother on a Pendolino to be fair. The mk4s are good mostly, but have that constant annoying huming noise (electric going through to the DVT?) and air conditioning, which shut off and startup in a second whilst going through dead zones (I don't know the correct name).

Sounds a bit like 390's with bigger windows? Someone who is still happy to get in to a car will be along shortly to tell me I am safer in a pendolino. Not bothered. I am that safe anyway. The chances of me being crippled in my own kitchen are that much greater than being killed on a train that I would really rather have a train I could see out of.

 

[aylesbury]

Pendolinos are fine to travel on fast and first class very good I travelled to York on a Mk4 and found it very uncomfortable and a rough ride.

 

[Retorus]

Much smoother on a Pendolino to be fair. The mk4s are good mostly, but have that constant annoying huming noise (electric going through to the DVT?) and air conditioning, which shut off and startup in a second whilst going through dead zones (I don't know the correct name).

That annoying whine drives me nuts, I'm glad it bothers somebody else.

 

[507021]

I quite like the Pendolinos personally, I think the ride quality and interior are both excellent.

 

[Clansman]

That annoying whine drives me nuts, I'm glad it bothers somebody else.

That's the better word. I've no idea where it comes from, surprised it hasn't been raised on this forum already!

 

[47271]

That's the better word. I've no idea where it comes from, surprised it hasn't been raised on this forum already!

Do you mean that unique up and down surging sound that you get on mk4s? I don't mind it, it isn't that loud, but I can see how some might be annoyed by it.

As for poor ride quality on them, you need to position yourself bang on mid coach and you're fine. Over bogie is hopeless, but I think the ride on a mk4 is still better than an HST through the Grantshouse and Houndwood bends. I don't have to hold on to my coffee cup in the quite the same way.

Anyway back on topic, as far as I'm concerned Pendolinos are absolutely fine and Voyagers need to be avoided in the same way as 180s. Both have nasty high frequency underfloor vibration way beyond tolerable levels.

I like the idea of Branson wanting to copy air travel and put it on the rails. Maybe that was still semi desirable 20 years ago, although it was already pretty rubbish then, but can you imagine anything worse for a long distance trip than the experience of most flights now?

 

[J-2739]

Do you mean that unique up and down surging sound that you get on mk4s? I don't mind it, it isn't that loud, but I can see how some might be annoyed by it.

As for poor ride quality on them, you need to position yourself bang on mid coach and you're fine. Over bogie is hopeless, but I think the ride on a mk4 is still better than an HST through the Grantshouse and Houndwood bends. I don't have to hold on to my coffee cup in the quite the same way.

Anyway back on topic, as far as I'm concerned Pendolinos are absolutely fine and Voyagers need to be avoided in the same way as 180s. Both have nasty high frequency underfloor vibration way beyond tolerable levels.

I like the idea of Branson wanting to copy air travel and put it on the rails. Maybe that was still semi desirable 20 years ago, although it was already pretty rubbish then, but can you imagine anything worse for a long distance trip than the experience of most flights now?

The only 'hum' I recognise on 225's is that loud one emitting from the class 91.

The loud vibrations on the voyagers and 180's is not a coincidence due to them sharing the same Cummins engine.

Voyagers?

 

[47271]

The loud vibrations on the voyagers and 180's is not a coincidence due to them sharing the same Cummins engine.

Oh I know, and 185s too. But I'm perfectly happy with those, I literally can't stomach Voyagers and Adelantes. The buzz makes me feel sick.

 

[satisnek]

I read in a magazine (so no guarantee it is true) that Branson wanted his railway to 'replicate air travel'.

Enough said...

 

[Starmill]

Hard seats, small windows and the overpowering stench of a dirty loo are at least based on facts. They're not the kind of thing anyone on the modern railway aspires to (and if they don't have higher standards than that I'd have to ask what they're doing).

However, the dispute arises because of different ideas about our tolerance of such scummy standards. Some people think there's too much complaining and people should just put up with it. Personally I think the solution to the 'Voyager problem' is at hand, and it's new stock. Until then I'll just do my best to avoid them because I know I won't enjoy it.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

I find nothing wrong with Pendolino's having used one yesterday for Preston to Motherwell (9 car) and Glasgow to Preston (11 car) In standard class, (coach C) I found the journey fine. I hardly noticed the tilt and didn't find it claustrophobic at all. I was sat at a table seat which meant that I had a full size window so maybe that helped with not being Claustrophobic. All in all however, I thought that you can't beat whizzing past the scenery at 125mph and I would much prefer a Pendolino against anything else.

 

[jamesst]

I find nothing wrong with Pendolino's having used one yesterday for Preston to Motherwell (9 car) and Glasgow to Preston (11 car) In standard class, (coach C) I found the journey fine. I hardly noticed the tilt and didn't find it claustrophobic at all. I was sat at a table seat which meant that I had a full size window so maybe that helped with not being Claustrophobic. All in all however, I thought that you can't beat whizzing past the scenery at 125mph and I would much prefer a Pendolino against anything else.

Hear hear!! I've used both them and Voyagers frequently and never found a problem!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I think the solution to the 'Voyager problem' is at hand, and it's new stock. Until then I'll just do my best to avoid them because I know I won't enjoy it.

The solution to the Voyager problem is wires and EMUs (or bi-modes, with the diesel used only for outreaching parts of the network). Though I didn't hate them to start with, they really are not ageing well[1], so early scrappage to be replaced with Stadler FLIRT IC bimodes, or IEPs, would be a good move.

[1] In a number of ways. They've always smelled of toilet waste, but now the exhaust is filthy (makes me feel ill breathing it in), the windows often steamed up with the gaskets damaged, the seats in a poor condition, the interiors beat up, the doors slow and sticky, the fixtures rattly and so on. Basically all that's good is the bodyshell and bogies, so arguably as that isn't even optimal in terms of seating capacity it'd be easier to scrap and start again.

 

[najaB]

The solution to the Voyager problem is wires and EMUs (or bi-modes, with the diesel used only for outreaching parts of the network).

Other than the WCML, GWML and ECML, where are they used that has a realistic chance of being wired up in the next 5 years? So we're stuck with them for half a decade or more.

They've always smelled of toilet waste, but now the exhaust is filthy (makes me feel ill breathing it in), the windows often steamed up with the gaskets damaged, the seats in a poor condition, the interiors beat up, the doors slow and sticky, the fixtures rattly and so on. Basically all that's good is the bodyshell and bogies, so arguably as that isn't even optimal in terms of seating capacity it'd be easier to scrap and start again.

Other than the toilet smell, all of that is cosmetic and can be fixed with a proper interior refurbishment.

 

[ainsworth74]

Other than the toilet smell, all of that is cosmetic and can be fixed with a proper interior refurbishment.

Even the toilet smell can be significantly improved by an altered maintenance regime which VTWC, as far as I'm aware, continue to use. It's XC who cheap out and don't pay for the slightly more intensive maintenance of the toilet tank and associated fittings with the result that XC Voyagers do have a significantly stronger smell.

As for the rest I agree most of what's wrong currently with the Voyagers could be fixed by taking them back to bare interiors and starting again. Similarly with the Pendolino's the main problem there is the awful interior design (at least in Standard Class).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Other than the toilet smell, all of that is cosmetic and can be fixed with a proper interior refurbishment.

And the stinking exhaust, which would probably mean a heavy engine overhaul and the addition of particulate filters. They are far, far worse than almost every other modern (post-privatisation) DMU in that regard - only things like 150s and 153s kick out similar levels of filth, and even then they often don't seem *that* bad.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for the rest I agree most of what's wrong currently with the Voyagers could be fixed by taking them back to bare interiors and starting again. Similarly with the Pendolino's the main problem there is the awful interior design (at least in Standard Class).

The VT "hybrid coach" (now converted to Standard, but still with the same layout) does show how pleasant a low-density window-aligned interior in them can be.

 

[najaB]

And the stinking exhaust, which would probably mean a heavy engine overhaul and the addition of particulate filters.

To be honest, I can't say I've really noticed it that much. Maybe it depends on which units you end up getting.

 

[backontrack]

Do enlighten us as to why this is the case...

I'll stick with the evidence, not Trainspotter wibble.

It may be incorrect but there's no need to be offensive.

 

[route101]

I find nothing wrong with Pendolino's having used one yesterday for Preston to Motherwell (9 car) and Glasgow to Preston (11 car) In standard class, (coach C) I found the journey fine. I hardly noticed the tilt and didn't find it claustrophobic at all. I was sat at a table seat which meant that I had a full size window so maybe that helped with not being Claustrophobic. All in all however, I thought that you can't beat whizzing past the scenery at 125mph and I would much prefer a Pendolino against anything else.

Not many Virgin trains stop at Motherwell these days ha .

 

[Wolfie]

The solution to the Voyager problem is wires and EMUs (or bi-modes, with the diesel used only for outreaching parts of the network). Though I didn't hate them to start with, they really are not ageing well[1], so early scrappage to be replaced with Stadler FLIRT IC bimodes, or IEPs, would be a good move.

[1] In a number of ways. They've always smelled of toilet waste, but now the exhaust is filthy (makes me feel ill breathing it in), the windows often steamed up with the gaskets damaged, the seats in a poor condition, the interiors beat up, the doors slow and sticky, the fixtures rattly and so on. Basically all that's good is the bodyshell and bogies, so arguably as that isn't even optimal in terms of seating capacity it'd be easier to scrap and start again.

Voyagers are still quite capable of doing a job albeit a refurb is due.. it would be crazy economics to screp them any time soon particularlly for a Stadler design which is completely unproven in UK and, some foreign experience suggests, may not have the best crash resistence.

I've come across most of the problems you describe on XC Voyagers, although never too many on any one train, but rarely if ever on the Virgin examples.... nuff said..

 

[superkev]

I call them 'paddedcellinos" as to me they resemble a padded cell.
K