First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[THarris123]

Loads of buses on the Balloon Shuttle today, including 10178, 10179, 32763, 33956, 35115, 37164, 37321, 37328, 37331, 37594 and 39191.

Last year I remember paying the extra to upgrade my Day Rider but having realised the X2 and X3 stops closer (just outside UWE Bower Ashton) I wondered why on earth I bothered. Therefore this year I decided to get the X2.

Unfortunately, Bristol was in complete lockdown all day due to a suspect package found in a vehicle outside the police station, with the police practically shutting off all of the city centre from Union Street to the Horsefair and the Haymarket. Some of the diversions buses were taking were very unusual. The 75/76 appeared to be running from Broad Quay, then up Park Street, loop around the Triangle, back down Queens Road and past the bus station regaining the usual route at the Bearpit. Lawrence Hill services (i.e. 42-49) appeared to be running from the Bearpit via Queens Road, Park Street, the centre, Baldwin Street, Wine Street and via Old Market and out like the 36, same for the 1/2 except turning right onto Victoria Street. Hotwells services appeared to be doing the same, coming from Anchor Road/Canons Marsh. Very unusual diversion indeed but Queens Road and Old Market were the only two ways in and out of the city for the best part of six hours.

In the end I had to get the Balloon Shuttle despite my theory, as that was possible the only route that wasn't affected! Plenty of buses although I did have 10179 both ways, which was a squeeze, annoying when there were plenty of deckers on also.

Yesterday was a nightmare in Bristol. I went into Bristol on 376 only to find they had closed off most of Broadmead. I was going to catch X/W1 to Weston and then 126 back to Wells. I waited at Anchor Road, nothing came for 40 mins or so, X6 went in the other way and so gave up. Walked to Temple Meads only to wait another 30 mins for 376 back home. Notice how First didn't put up anything on social media, apart from an emergency notice that Broadmead is closed - could have told us what way buses are diverted.

 

[Marc]

Have First really had South Bristol sown up? The 52, 57/67, 349, 511, 512 ,513 ,514 ,515 and A4 are all current, all S Bristol and all not First.

yes. all bar 349 and A4 are subsidised one way or another.

 

[swifty]

yes. all bar 349 and A4 are subsidised one way or another.

And of course First tickets are accepted on the 349.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And of course First tickets are accepted on the 349.

Here's a bit of a take on the 51. Discuss

1. Is it because First bus are losing money on the 51?

Well no-one on this forum knows the reality or not of that statement. Only First and James Freeman know the truth but a couple of things to consider. If they were making a tidy sum, why would they withdraw it? Or do we actually think that JF (who is a well-respected individual) is actually lying? There are other things that could’ve been said rather than that?

2. How can it be losing money when there are full buses at peak?

Well, fair point and we’ve all seen these in peak. However, anecdotally, an off peak trip from the BroadWalk to Hengrove usually has the odd farepayer and a number of free passes. That means you’re probably running at a loss during the day (a bus usually needs to take £30-35 per hour on average) so even the peak may not be outweighing that.

Now it does beg the question as to whether the 2 and 376 will be swamped at peak. Clearly, First believe that there is sufficient capacity to cope with that element of traffic from the city centre to BroadWalk from the 51. Well, that is the great imponderable and we just don’t know. First, of course, have the information and data and today’s ticket machines now provide a greater wealth of management and passenger information than we’ve ever seen in the past. Whether that is robust, or fundamentally flawed, none of us know at the moment. We can only hope that First have got their sums right.

3. It’s to create capacity to take on the P&R

Well, it certainly does help in enabling a further dozen vehicles into Hengrove, but is that really such an issue? Surely parking space could be obtained? It could also be about drivers but those currently employed by CT Plus have the right under TUPE to transfer across on the same terms.

4. Is it about a shortage of drivers?

Well, that is definitely a problem and may well be a factor. First have been struggling, resorting to bringing drivers in from other depots and OpCos as well as a number of agency drivers. This adds to the cost of operation directly (driver wages plus agency fee) and indirectly (as agency staff typically have higher levels of accidents and MPG)

5. Is it because the route has been systematically destroyed by years of poor service and high fares?

That may be an issue certainly. However, in recent years, First have sought to redress this by increasing frequencies and lowering fares. This has benefitted many of the other city services but clearly not this one. Why?

6. Is there something in the demographics of the area?

Perhaps this is a major point. Some interesting issues highlighted in this study of the main ward - https://www.bristol.gov.uk/document...Park.pdf/24bc4b46-509b-4db8-88a2-34efda4de0e4
Look at the population pyramid and you see that the Hengrove and Whitchurch population is weighted much more to older people. That means ENCTS is likely a higher proportion. This is backed up with few areas of deprivation (and consequently above average life expectancy) and high levels of social care. Also, people are better off; more people own their own homes than the city average (by some distance) and the number of households without a car is well below the city average. Those with one car are average but more than one is considerably higher than the city average.

It could be argued that the poor service in the past has forced people to buy cars. However, that is rarely borne out by research.

7. Should JF/First have expected this backlash?

Yes, and to be honest, they’ve not really handled it as well as they could’ve.

8. What can be done next by First?

Well, they could back down but somehow don’t see that happening and reinstating the 51. They could put a vehicle into the 36 and extend it to Fortfield Road and Wharnecliffe Gardens to link with the SBH and Hengrove Park and it would provide a circuitous route to BroadWalk (but Walsh Avenue would still be unserved).

9. What about another operator?

Well, my point before with the 20, 52 and 57 is that the same lines were trotted out before. We could see Wessex or Abus come in but on what terms? Also remembering that the 50 will mop up most of the city bound traffic so it’s about the Whitchurch to BroadWalk bit and how lucrative that is? Wessex could come in and compete on the Wells Road but then again, do that and you may as well compete over the 2. That might be regarded as wasteful competition but that market is probably more reliable?

Of course, we have the curate’s egg that is CityFox. The attendance at protests and Twitter led pronouncements were seen when the 20 got pulled and came to nought, and we’ve seen the same here. Mr Hand has on one hand denounced First (3rd Aug) and stated it’s a ploy to get the council to “pay up”, whilst then stating that they are discussing options with various councillors (13th Aug). It’s an open market – they could just run commercially unless….they want the council to pay up, just to them not to First. Perhaps Phil Stockley, who I do rate and respect, could perhaps convince Rhys to stop tweeting and undertake things in a more professional manner?

10. What next?

My personal gut feel? The BCC will rummage down behind the sofa and some money will be found for some sort of replacement. At best, it might be some hourly service with one bus dedicated and another wrapped around existing schools requirements, similar to Abus’ 57.

Just my thoughts on the subject

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yesterday was a nightmare in Bristol. I went into Bristol on 376 only to find they had closed off most of Broadmead. I was going to catch X/W1 to Weston and then 126 back to Wells. I waited at Anchor Road, nothing came for 40 mins or so, X6 went in the other way and so gave up. Walked to Temple Meads only to wait another 30 mins for 376 back home. Notice how First didn't put up anything on social media, apart from an emergency notice that Broadmead is closed - could have told us what way buses are diverted.

I know, I saw a 51 and a 376 turning out of Colston Street, which I wasn't sure was reopened following the apartment fire in October (Megabus services must still be using Bond Street for the forseeable). All in all, there was complete chaos although it was quite nice to see a bit more variety going up Park Street!

A few Twitter users complained when First tweeted that their responses for the day had finished, saying that it was appalling that whilst the city is in complete lockdown they just buggered off (also at an earlier 5pm instead of 6pm), which I partly agree with, but perhaps some of the staff had been sent out to help customers or were drafted over to Ashton Court for the Balloons. Either way, it was carnage. My friend was waiting for the 2055 42 from Broad Quay which did not turn up at all!

 

[carlberry]

I know, I saw a 51 and a 376 turning out of Colston Street, which I wasn't sure was reopened following the apartment fire in October (Megabus services must still be using Bond Street for the forseeable). All in all, there was complete chaos although it was quite nice to see a bit more variety going up Park Street!

A few Twitter users complained when First tweeted that their responses for the day had finished, saying that it was appalling that whilst the city is in complete lockdown they just buggered off (also at an earlier 5pm instead of 6pm), which I partly agree with, but perhaps some of the staff had been sent out to help customers or were drafted over to Ashton Court for the Balloons. Either way, it was carnage. My friend was waiting for the 2055 42 from Broad Quay which did not turn up at all!

The road opened fairly quickly, however there was a problem with access to bus stops which mostly effected the 'minor services' stop slightly further up the road and was fixed a few months ago now (building work continues but just takes out parking places). I suspect that Bond Street is better for Megabus and (with Falcon and Belles) makes a nice 'Stagecoach' bus station! The access INTO Colston Street from the centre was stopped in the last couple of weeks.
I doubt that First's Twitter account is provided by somebody in Bristol!

 

[THarris123]

I know, I saw a 51 and a 376 turning out of Colston Street, which I wasn't sure was reopened following the apartment fire in October (Megabus services must still be using Bond Street for the forseeable). All in all, there was complete chaos although it was quite nice to see a bit more variety going up Park Street!

A few Twitter users complained when First tweeted that their responses for the day had finished, saying that it was appalling that whilst the city is in complete lockdown they just buggered off (also at an earlier 5pm instead of 6pm), which I partly agree with, but perhaps some of the staff had been sent out to help customers or were drafted over to Ashton Court for the Balloons. Either way, it was carnage. My friend was waiting for the 2055 42 from Broad Quay which did not turn up at all!

Just remember that the Twitter account I think you'll find is manned by people in Norwich.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The road opened fairly quickly, however there was a problem with access to bus stops which mostly effected the 'minor services' stop slightly further up the road and was fixed a few months ago now (building work continues but just takes out parking places). I suspect that Bond Street is better for Megabus and (with Falcon and Belles) makes a nice 'Stagecoach' bus station! The access INTO Colston Street from the centre was stopped in the last couple of weeks.
I doubt that First's Twitter account is provided by somebody in Bristol!

It wasn't. The roads were closed at 1558, and was not opened until 1937, confirmed by Avon and Somerset Constabulary Twitter page.

 

[freetoview33]

First do have a habit of backtracking on things a year or two down the line!

 

[swifty]

It wasn't. The roads were closed at 1558, and was not opened until 1937, confirmed by Avon and Somerset Constabulary Twitter page.

I think Carl was referring to the closure of Colston Street and the Megabus services staying at their new stops.

I was under the impression that road were closed by police yesterday just after midday and stayed closed for around 7 hours.

 

[Colly405]

yes. all bar 349 and A4 are subsidised one way or another.

But what does that mean to Joe Public?

I know it is North Bristol, but do the public really kbow, or care, that the current 501/502 are subsidised but the 18 isn't? I'd hazard a guess that they don't know and wouldn't see it as relevant...

 

[ValleyLines142]

I think Carl was referring to the closure of Colston Street and the Megabus services staying at their new stops.

I was under the impression that road were closed by police yesterday just after midday and stayed closed for around 7 hours.

Sorry, yes that is indeed the case. I didn't read it properly! I could have sworn Colston Street was still closed a few weeks ago!

It was quite a while yesterday.

 

[THarris123]

I think Carl was referring to the closure of Colston Street and the Megabus services staying at their new stops.

I was under the impression that road were closed by police yesterday just after midday and stayed closed for around 7 hours.

Well it was closed at least from 3 to 7.

 

[swifty]

Well it was closed at least from 3 to 7.

Thanks for clearing that up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But what does that mean to Joe Public?

I know it is North Bristol, but do the public really kbow, or care, that the current 501/502 are subsidised but the 18 isn't? I'd hazard a guess that they don't know and wouldn't see it as relevant...

But people do realise they can't use their First day ticket on the service, which is relevant to First having south Bristol to themselves. The size of the vehicles used on the 51x services speaks volumes for the passenger numbers. I suspect it would be the same for any sort of 51 replacement.

 

[carlberry]

Well it was closed at least from 3 to 7.

I'm not aware that Colston Street was closed at all yesterday. However it was NOT closed at any time between 3.40 and 5.00 as I've got several pictures of buses that shouldn't have been there nose to tail on it at those times!

It was closed at some point in October 2015 which was what I was answering and opened fairly soon afterwards the same month.

From 12.30 until 19.00 yesterday Police did close at least Rupert Street and the Haymarket as part of their new 'zero tolerance' policy towards cars parked on double yellow lines.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Colston Street wasn't closed with regards to Sunday's incident.

Personally, despite the intense security with what has been going on in France and other parts of Europe, I do think that the whole lockdown was completely over the top. It was probably just someone who parked in the wrong place by mistake. I know they've arrested three people over the incident but I do find it ridiculous that the city was closed for almost seven hours. Surely if it was an explosive it would have detonated by then!

But anyway, this is a bus thread and I'm digressing.

With regards to Colston Street, I was under the impression that it was still closed from the fire in October but, as I found out when a Mendip Explorer Streetdeck emerged from there, clearly it isn't. I'm not sure when it reopened. I do think that Megabus should retain their stop at Bond Street as it is generally a more central location. I used the Megabus twice or three times last year when there was engineering work on the rails and I did find it more convenient at Bond Street. I'll probably use it more when the Severn Tunnel is closed next month for six weeks.

 

[THarris123]

Right I think we're getting things muddled up here.

I meant that Bristol (all of Broadmead) was in lockdown mode from at least 3 to 7, not Colston Street. 3 was when First announced the emergency notice (which is all they did) and I was in there from 5 to 7.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see a number of the 70/1 Streetdecks have had their route branding amended with Temple Meads removed. 3 out of 4 I saw had been so amended of which 35139 was one.

69442 was working the 376 yesterday. Other less common workings (but by no means Unknown) also included 66325 on the 42 and 32258 on the 2.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Right I think we're getting things muddled up here.

I meant that Bristol (all of Broadmead) was in lockdown mode from at least 3 to 7, not Colston Street. 3 was when First announced the emergency notice (which is all they did) and I was in there from 5 to 7.

No I know, I think carlberry thought I was talking about the closure of Colston Street altogether with regards to Sunday's incident but I was referring to the opening after the fire in October.

I see a number of the 70/1 Streetdecks have had their route branding amended with Temple Meads removed. 3 out of 4 I saw had been so amended of which 35139 was one.

Indeed. 35103 and 35107 have had the same treatment. I would have thought they would have just had UWE Bower Ashton added as the 70 will still go from Temple Meads.

The fan on the Streetdecks seem to be getting louder and louder. 35114 was on the 70 on Sunday and I was almost deafened by the thing!

 

[THarris123]

I see a number of the 70/1 Streetdecks have had their route branding amended with Temple Meads removed. 3 out of 4 I saw had been so amended of which 35139 was one.

69442 was working the 376 yesterday. Other less common workings (but by no means Unknown) also included 66325 on the 42 and 32258 on the 2.

Practically always a B7 on 376 lately. One came into Wells at 21.00 yesterday, 25 mins late and as its a B7, came in on the 22.35 from Bristol into Wells perfectly on time. Try making up 25 mins on a Streetdeck.

 

[freetoview33]

Megabus/Stagecoach are most likely not serving Colston Street because of the Metrobus works. Maybe they will go back next year when it is completed, there will still be provisions for buses to use that stop outside the Colston Hall.

Now onto the 51! First do seem to have a habit of withdrawing services due to lack of demand then going back on it later on.

A good example is Wraxall, that a few years ago had it's service cut to just a few peak trips, due to lack to demand. Where in a few weeks time, it will once again have a half hourly bus service! So I am always a little bit sceptical when that is given as a reason for cutting services.

I do understand they are a business and they can't just carry around fresh air, but surly the nature of it would say a few odd off peak services would loose money, but if they can be worked off of other trips or dead trips, then that's okay. Lack of drivers is a big thing, I can understand that a lack would cost they dearly, in terms of agency drivers, overtime, cancelled services and such like.

I do come back to if you lived in places like Thornbury, Yate or even South Wales it might be off putting to work at Hengrove or Lawrence Hill due to distance. Maybe a North Bristol depot would have a greater catchment area for drivers and take pressure off Lawrence Hill and Hengrove with seem to be full or at least near full.

I was thinking a depot at Avonmouth could be good, as it could serve Cribbs services and Portishead services or Westerleigh way to serve Yate and Emersons Green services.

Maybe it is time for the South Bristol network to get overhauled in a similar way to North Bristol, North Somerset and now Bath. The current routes are just useless now.

376 seems to have reliability issues, as said often runs up to 25 mins late, and now with the 51 and 379 being withdrawn it will get worse!

 

[THarris123]

Megabus/Stagecoach are most likely not serving Colston Street because of the Metrobus works. Maybe they will go back next year when it is completed, there will still be provisions for buses to use that stop outside the Colston Hall.

Now onto the 51! First do seem to have a habit of withdrawing services due to lack of demand then going back on it later on.

A good example is Wraxall, that a few years ago had it's service cut to just a few peak trips, due to lack to demand. Where in a few weeks time, it will once again have a half hourly bus service! So I am always a little bit sceptical when that is given as a reason for cutting services.

I do understand they are a business and they can't just carry around fresh air, but surly the nature of it would say a few odd off peak services would loose money, but if they can be worked off of other trips or dead trips, then that's okay. Lack of drivers is a big thing, I can understand that a lack would cost they dearly, in terms of agency drivers, overtime, cancelled services and such like.

I do come back to if you lived in places like Thornbury, Yate or even South Wales it might be off putting to work at Hengrove or Lawrence Hill due to distance. Maybe a North Bristol depot would have a greater catchment area for drivers and take pressure off Lawrence Hill and Hengrove with seem to be full or at least near full.

I was thinking a depot at Avonmouth could be good, as it could serve Cribbs services and Portishead services or Westerleigh way to serve Yate and Emersons Green services.

Maybe it is time for the South Bristol network to get overhauled in a similar way to North Bristol, North Somerset and now Bath. The current routes are just useless now.

376 seems to have reliability issues, as said often runs up to 25 mins late, and now with the 51 and 379 being withdrawn it will get worse!

376 should be a bit more reliable in November if rumours are true that 35148 or 35149 are heading down to Wells. I think the reliability on 2 will be worse, rather than 376. They are only usually 25 mins late if the bus has to pick up a load of people up to and including Temple Meads, who had been waiting for 2 or 51, so I don't think the reliability will really be affected, compared with the state of it at the moment. It is more the capacity that will be affected and I think it may be time for First to do limit stop on 376 between Broadwalk and centre to ensure there is plenty of capacity and reliability improves. I don't think First really realise what is going to happen to the 2, which is my biggest worry about 51 being withdrawn. 376 will be hit, but not like 2 - I've seen some journeys on there that run with spare capacity and some even on time, which will surely affect that, ending up with having a regular occurrence of 2 buses arriving at the same time.

 

[carlberry]

No I know, I think carlberry thought I was talking about the closure of Colston Street altogether with regards to Sunday's incident but I was referring to the opening after the fire in October.

I only answered two posts. One was one about the Colston Street fire which I answered with details of the closure during the fire and another was a subsequent post about Colston Street which somebody answered with 'Well it was closed at least from 3 to 7', but subsequently has said the 'it' he was refering to was Broadmead so I dont think it's me that's confused!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Megabus/Stagecoach are most likely not serving Colston Street because of the Metrobus works. Maybe they will go back next year when it is completed, there will still be provisions for buses to use that stop outside the Colston Hall.

I'm not aware that Stagecoach have tried to serve Colston Street. For Belles Express it would be extra running time for littel benefit and they realise that Bond Street is a better target for Falcon than 'the Centre'.
Megabus had to move from Colston Street when the fire happened however the old Megabus stop would have been usable again within a few weeks. I suspect that Megabus were quite happy being 'forced' to move and wont be back. The Metrobus works began many months after the move and wouldnt have effected it (other than the general disruption to traffic).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A good example is Wraxall, that a few years ago had it's service cut to just a few peak trips, due to lack to demand. Where in a few weeks time, it will once again have a half hourly bus service! So I am always a little bit sceptical when that is given as a reason for cutting services.

Wraxall already has a half hourly service (the X9)! The X8/X9 improvements were part of a North Somerset CC promoted improvement/cooperation for the area that started the last time all the services in the area were renumbered (the timetable I've got is a year old, they may have kept the same numbers for even longer than that but that may be pushing it!).
The previous cut was because First decided Wraxall couldnt support two bus services so decided to leave it to North Somerset BC, unfortunately North Somerst BC decided to do the same thing a week later!
If First are wrong on the 51 then there should already be plenty of companies willing to prove them wrong. As an example from the same Weekend Wessex should have loads of spare vehicles and staff, CT Plus the same (however) and there's always City Fox.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Colston Street wasn't closed with regards to Sunday's incident.

Personally, despite the intense security with what has been going on in France and other parts of Europe, I do think that the whole lockdown was completely over the top. It was probably just someone who parked in the wrong place by mistake. I know they've arrested three people over the incident but I do find it ridiculous that the city was closed for almost seven hours. Surely if it was an explosive it would have detonated by then!

With incidents like this, whatever the Police do, they're always going to be told they're wrong by lots of people and newspapers. Clearly there was something highly suspicious about the car involved as there's usually any number of illegally parked cars in Rupert Street that the Police are quite happy to ignore!

 

[Bristol_Buses]

Maybe a North Bristol depot would have a greater catchment area for drivers and take pressure off Lawrence Hill and Hengrove with seem to be full or at least near full.

I was thinking a depot at Avonmouth could be good, as it could serve Cribbs services and Portishead services or Westerleigh way to serve Yate and Emersons Green services.

I think it would be a good idea to refurbish/open Muller Road Again, as it could take Services such as the 16 - 19 , 24, 70 - 79 and 82.

Hengrove could then stick with the routes currently there like the 8, 9, 50 , 90, and P&R.

Leaving, Lawrence Hill with Cadbury Heath, Bitton and Emersons Green and Yate Services.

 

[freetoview33]

I only answered two posts. One was one about the Colston Street fire which I answered with details of the closure during the fire and another was a subsequent post about Colston Street which somebody answered with 'Well it was closed at least from 3 to 7', but subsequently has said the 'it' he was refering to was Broadmead so I dont think it's me that's confused!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'm not aware that Stagecoach have tried to serve Colston Street. For Belles Express it would be extra running time for littel benefit and they realise that Bond Street is a better target for Falcon than 'the Centre'.
Megabus had to move from Colston Street when the fire happened however the old Megabus stop would have been usable again within a few weeks. I suspect that Megabus were quite happy being 'forced' to move and wont be back. The Metrobus works began many months after the move and wouldnt have effected it (other than the general disruption to traffic).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wraxall already has a half hourly service (the X9)! The X8/X9 improvements were part of a North Somerset CC promoted improvement/cooperation for the area that started the last time all the services in the area were renumbered (the timetable I've got is a year old, they may have kept the same numbers for even longer than that but that may be pushing it!).
The previous cut was because First decided Wraxall couldnt support two bus services so decided to leave it to North Somerset BC, unfortunately North Somerst BC decided to do the same thing a week later!
If First are wrong on the 51 then there should already be plenty of companies willing to prove them wrong. As an example from the same Weekend Wessex should have loads of spare vehicles and staff, CT Plus the same (however) and there's always City Fox.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


With incidents like this, whatever the Police do, they're always going to be told they're wrong by lots of people and newspapers. Clearly there was something highly suspicious about the car involved as there's usually any number of illegally parked cars in Rupert Street that the Police are quite happy to ignore!

I'm sure someone else would run the 51, if we had an oyster style system. And it was because the car had false numberplates too so I have heard. But everything was okay so all good!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think it would be a good idea to refurbish/open Muller Road Again, as it could take Services such as the 16 - 19 , 24, 70 - 79 and 82.

Hengrove could then stick with the routes currently there like the 8, 9, 50 , 90, and P&R.

Leaving, Lawrence Hill with Cadbury Heath, Bitton and Emersons Green and Yate Services.

Muller Road is too small and needs knocking down and rebuilding so it won't happen.

 

[83G/84D]

I know it is a few weeks away but does anyone know what operators are supplying vehicles for rail replacement services during the Severn Tunnel closure?

 

[CD]

376 should be a bit more reliable in November if rumours are true that 35148 or 35149 are heading down to Wells. I think the reliability on 2 will be worse, rather than 376. They are only usually 25 mins late if the bus has to pick up a load of people up to and including Temple Meads, who had been waiting for 2 or 51, so I don't think the reliability will really be affected, compared with the state of it at the moment. It is more the capacity that will be affected and I think it may be time for First to do limit stop on 376 between Broadwalk and centre to ensure there is plenty of capacity and reliability improves. I don't think First really realise what is going to happen to the 2, which is my biggest worry about 51 being withdrawn. 376 will be hit, but not like 2 - I've seen some journeys on there that run with spare capacity and some even on time, which will surely affect that, ending up with having a regular occurrence of 2 buses arriving at the same time.

I would go even further and make 376 non-stop Whitchurch Village to Temple Meads.
Countless times I've been on a 376 that has been on time and often had to wait time at Pensford only to call at every stop from Whitchurch and be 10-15 minutes late into the bus station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The A39 causeway between Street and Glastonbury is to be closed from Sunday 22nd October to Sunday 30th October. The shortest diversionary route is 28 miles !

So presumably 376 will terminate at Glastonbury and 29/55/77 at Street with nothing in between for a week ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think it would be a good idea to refurbish/open Muller Road Again, as it could take Services such as the 16 - 19 , 24, 70 - 79 and 82.

Hengrove could then stick with the routes currently there like the 8, 9, 50 , 90, and P&R.

Leaving, Lawrence Hill with Cadbury Heath, Bitton and Emersons Green and Yate Services.

Reopening Muller Road is a non starter for a number of reasons. Firstly, it would cost a fortune to put right all that is wrong with it. Secondly, you're unlikely to attract any different pool of drivers.

Also, it's an expensive option in having a third depot. When this was first mooted as LH and HE were filling up, I said the most likely option was for LH to reopen the old annex to the depot - quelle surprise, that's what happened. I'm not some sort of visionary or medium - it was just obvious!

FWIW, if they a) wanted to create additional capacity and b) expand the driver pool, I've advocated a Westbury style outbase in the Yate area. Get a secure compound with an existing business, a portacabin or two for staff welfare, and run it off LH depot with some of the 46 and 47 group of routes PVR and the X49 and the 82. Checking times, that constitutes c.10 vehicles

 

[Class 33]

It'll be very interesting to see what happens with the 51. Either if a new operator takes it over, who that operator is, and what they do with the service(perhaps even making it a cross-city service). Or if the service isn't saved or a suitable replacement service introduced, and the effects this will have on passenger volumes and increased journey times on the 2 and 376.

I've always said the 376 should be limited stop between Temple Meads and the upper part of Wells Road, as too many city users are using this service and slowing down journey times on what is a country service. The Wells Road/Greenleaze bus stop would be suitable, as it would provide interchange with the 2 for passengers to and from intermediate stops along the lower part of Wells Road. However, this was when the First Bus 51 was in service! And I also commented that I think there should also be a new city service(an every 30 minute frequency would probably be sufficient) serving the upper part of Wells Road as well! The upper part of Wells Road hasn't had a city service serving it since the days of the old 55 Stockwood-Southmead and the limited X68 Stockwood-Centre services!

However the thing to also consider is that even if a new operator does take over the 51, those people who currently use the service and use weekly or monthly First travelcards and who need to use other First Bristol services, will then not be able to use the new 51 unless they pay the additional cost of another travel card with the new operator. Which will add considerable to their travel costs. Though for passengers only travelling between Broadmead and Broad Walk this wouldn't be an additonal cost issue for them, instead they'll just have to use the 2 and 376 instead of the current 2, 51, and 376. Though basically this would still mean that the 2 and 376 will get higher passenger volumes and increasing cases of over-crowding.....

For people having to use different bus operators or prefer having the flexibility of choice of more services to use, it is good that there is a Bristol Rider ticket available at £4.50, just 50p more than a First Day Rider ticket. But there also needs to be weekly and monthly tickets that can be used on multiple operators within Bristol too.

 

[THarris123]

I would go even further and make 376 non-stop Whitchurch Village to Temple Meads.
Countless times I've been on a 376 that has been on time and often had to wait time at Pensford only to call at every stop from Whitchurch and be 10-15 minutes late into the bus station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The A39 causeway between Street and Glastonbury is to be closed from Sunday 22nd October to Sunday 30th October. The shortest diversionary route is 28 miles !

So presumably 376 will terminate at Glastonbury and 29/55/77 at Street with nothing in between for a week ?

376 should be only limited stop between Broadwalk and Centre, as if there is a 51 still, there will be plenty of buses per hour going along that section. Anywhere between Whitchurch and Broadwalk is only really served by 376, hence limited stop would mean no service for some parts of the Wells Road (Clive Road, etc). Only when it hits Broadwalk it completely fills up and coming home quite a few get off at Broadwalk. Good example is Sunday - about 20 people waiting at Temple Meads for 376 and of those 20 about 15 got off in the stops towards Broadwalk.