First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[THarris123]

You asked "I'm really beginning to lose faith in First and they are forgetting about who are most vital to them in comparison to Webberbus - commuters and the young and their drivers." and "I'm sure to get a bit of backlash on this, but it is not a viable solution to do what First are doing in May to combat Webbers."

Or what about

"Well why do I hate Webberbus?
1. Their stupid non structures fare system
2. Their way in which they run most of their services to mirror the BoS services
3. Their ability to be able to afford new buses
4. Some financial stability - caused by their school contracts and private work which helps fund everything
5. Their drivers
6. Probably the most significant factor - how they operate their services only near enough 9-17, without considering commuters or the young"

Points 3 and 4 make for interesting reading in hindsight

Back onto the actual topic. The fact that they'll have fully depreciated fleet means that they can afford to stand them up during the uni holidays, branded or otherwise. Given JFs background, he thinks branding makes sense. Not so easy with brand new fleet - that's why they've put old fleet on there. It's why they did it with the U1 spares

I'd expect the U2 to be 66992/3 plus another B7RLE

Again, show me a post where I said that Webberbus were right - you're quote above shows that I hated Webberbus and I didn't think First had the right approach to dealing with them. I still believe in that - they went bust due to many other reasons, other than First competing against them. The point about their financial stability was partially correct - they had enough income coming in from private work, but just no ability to manage their public services.

Why are they investing in 8 new vehicles for Bath University then if they are concerned about the age of the vehicle being used in holiday periods?

 

[90sWereBetter]

Does anyone know if the W-EOW deckers at Weymouth and South Wales are DDA-compliant? I went on a few when I was on holiday at the former, and they look very tired indeed. One of them is still in Barbie livery.

 

[freetoview33]

Does anyone know if the W-EOW deckers at Weymouth and South Wales are DDA-compliant? I went on a few when I was on holiday at the former, and they look very tired indeed. One of them is still in Barbie livery.

It's really hit and miss the same with the ones in Bristol, some are, most ain't although they only need minor mods to bring them up to DDA. Some will most likely stay off but I'm sure First want to withdrawal as many as possible as they are at the end or near the end of the line!

 

[THarris123]

Does anyone know if the W-EOW deckers at Weymouth and South Wales are DDA-compliant? I went on a few when I was on holiday at the former, and they look very tired indeed. One of them is still in Barbie livery.

I don't believe any of them are DDA compliant. Its a question that I asked a while ago as to what will be replacing the South Wales ones, but with no response, so I guess we don't know yet.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Again, show me a post where I said that Webberbus were right - you're quote above shows that I hated Webberbus and I didn't think First had the right approach to dealing with them. I still believe in that - they went bust due to many other reasons, other than First competing against them. The point about their financial stability was partially correct - they had enough income coming in from private work, but just no ability to manage their public services.

Why are they investing in 8 new vehicles for Bath University then if they are concerned about the age of the vehicle being used in holiday periods?

I'm sorry but first quote. If you say that First are wrong then say "in comparison to Webberbus " then by definition you're saying they're getting it right. As for financial stability, that's why they were massively in debt and why they were foreclosed upon. How you can say otherwise is an interesting idea of business stability and I'm sure their creditors think so!

As for the U1, half that fleet gets stood up. Currently it's the B7TL fleet that is fully depreciated. In future it will be the bendis. The U1 enjoys a year round demand off peak, more so at Bath than BSU. That is what the new fleet will do. When hols are here, the demand will lessen and the bendis will instead be parked up. Simples

 

[THarris123]

It's really hit and miss the same with the ones in Bristol, some are, most ain't although they only need minor mods to bring them up to DDA. Some will most likely stay off but I'm sure First want to withdrawal as many as possible as they are at the end or near the end of the line!

What W reg vehicles are DDA in Bristol then? Steve White confirmed that all the W reg deckers are non-DDA.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Does anyone know if the W-EOW deckers at Weymouth and South Wales are DDA-compliant? I went on a few when I was on holiday at the former, and they look very tired indeed. One of them is still in Barbie livery.

Ftv33 is correct in saying that the B7TLs can be upgraded to DDA compliance. The Weymouth ones aren't AFAIK except probably the one just converted to open top (32036?). Don't know if another one will be down so both Olyms are replaced?

There was a rumour of deckers heading from Bristol to FHD (but unsubstantiated). However, the great unknown will be what damage has been done by the IR dispute and if this will lead to fleet cuts

 

[THarris123]

I'm sorry but first quote. If you say that First are wrong then say "in comparison to Webberbus " then by definition you're saying they're getting it right. As for financial stability, that's why they were massively in debt and why they were foreclosed upon. How you can say otherwise is an interesting idea of business stability and I'm sure their creditors think so!

As for the U1, half that fleet gets stood up. Currently it's the B7TL fleet that is fully depreciated. In future it will be the bendis. The U1 enjoys a year round demand off peak, more so at Bath than BSU. That is what the new fleet will do. When hols are here, the demand will lessen and the bendis will instead be parked up. Simples

To quote "I'm really beginning to lose faith in First and they are forgetting about who are most vital to them in comparison to Webberbus - commuters and the young and their drivers." I'm stating here that First were focusing more on combating Webberbus than thinking of their commuters, young and their drivers. I stated that First had the wrong approach to dealing with Webberbus, I partially still agree with that. I said that First were doing things wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't say that Webberbus were doing things right.

So why can't they put 55 plate vehicles on U5? During holidays 55 plate bendies will be off the road, why not 55 plate deckers from U5 too? Anyway argument over - if they put new vehicles on U5, would you agree to owing me a pint of Thatchers? If they don't next September, I owe you. Fair?

 

[carlberry]

I don't believe any of them are DDA compliant. Its a question that I asked a while ago as to what will be replacing the South Wales ones, but with no response, so I guess we don't know yet.

It may be that they're on closed contracts so it wont matter. Otherwise (if First think it's worth retaining the services as they're the only deckers they've got in South Wales) they'll get some rejects from somewhere else before year end. (Or the FTRs - first 40 can have a seat, the rest stand!)

Come on, somebody has to have the FTRs!

 

[1905 Group]

Just to clear up a few questions if I may:
I don't think any vehicles will be heading Bristol - FHD soon
34167 will be staying at Weymouth.
W reg B7TLs in Bristol will be converted to DDA and sold apart from apparently 32003/6 and maybe others - not 100% sure. I have seen a few PAEs with new ramps so wonder if that's part of the upgrade?
Bristol will be getting two Streetcars for Metrobus testing (can't remember if that's been mentioned in here before)
The Cymru Streetcars are due to be scrapped I think.
The CT Plus Citaros all have buyers so I've been told.

Hope that answers a few questions. There are a few more things I know but I can't say all, at least not yet!

 

[carlberry]

Just to clear up a few questions if I may:

W reg B7TLs in Bristol will be converted to DDA and sold apart from apparently 32003/6 and maybe others - not 100% sure. I have seen a few PAEs with new ramps so wonder if that's part of the upgrade?

Weird. One or the other makes sense (i.e. First either upgrade them or sell them) but not both.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just to clear up a few questions if I may:

Bristol will be getting two Streetcars for Metrobus testing (can't remember if that's been mentioned in here before)

Weird again as I thought Bristol CC had given up on bendis and Metrobus would be all singles (dispite First Bristol now being mostly deckers). A streetcar is actually more manouverable than a current full length single decker.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The CT Plus Citaros all have buyers so I've been told.

I assume very close to Barnsley.

 

[swifty]

Ftv33 is correct in saying that the B7TLs can be upgraded to DDA compliance. The Weymouth ones aren't AFAIK except probably the one just converted to open top (32036?). Don't know if another one will be down so both Olyms are replaced?

There was a rumour of deckers heading from Bristol to FHD (but unsubstantiated). However, the great unknown will be what damage has been done by the IR dispute and if this will lead to fleet cuts

From what I've heard from informed sources was that 32036 was indeed DDA'd whilst being converted, and that another will too be converted for next year. There were supposed to be a batch of mid life deckers heading from Bristol to Weymouth, but the strike has potentially seen that put off in favour off the 32xxx batch being converted to DDA and kept on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Cymru Streetcars are due to be scrapped I think.

That's funny AFAIK around 4/5 are being repainted for use on a new Uni service from September?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why are they investing in 8 new vehicles for Bath University then if they are concerned about the age of the vehicle being used in holiday periods?

Because the fuel guzzling bendy monstrosities will be parked up off peak and in the holidays whilst the new fuel efficient deckers will be out earning their keep

 

[ValleyLines142]

Three Manchester E400s seen on the southbound M6 in Cheshire this morning... possibly on their way to Bristol or the SW?

33685, 33750 and 33755 have arrived at Hengrove from Oldham. The rumour is that these will replace 33560, 33564-6 and 33569 so that all of the ex-Leicester ones will be at Weston.

 

[swifty]

Or maybe the Scanias? 65725 still needs repainting and 65724 might be repainted when it comes back to life.

I'd keep my eye on those and the Streetlites at Westbury!

 

[1905 Group]

I could be wrong on the Streetcars, not entirely sure about those. I might have misunderstood and what was meant is that they should be scrapped - but won't actually be scrapped.

 

[THarris123]

I'd keep my eye on those and the Streetlites at Westbury!

Oh no, please don't tell me that the Streetlites are heading elsewhere? I was thinking that maybe the Scanias might move to Wells (?) - they need another two or three vehicles in Sept, so could make sense.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

33685, 33750 and 33755 have arrived at Hengrove from Oldham. The rumour is that these will replace 33560, 33564-6 and 33569 so that all of the ex-Leicester ones will be at Weston.

I thought that there was another two ex leicesters at Hengrove?

 

[ValleyLines142]

I thought that there was another two ex leicesters at Hengrove?

33506, 33508, 33547, 33550 and 33571 are at Weston.

33554, 33556, 33560, 33564, 33565, 33566 and 33569 are at Hengrove.

 

[THarris123]

33506, 33508, 33547, 33550 and 33571 are at Weston.

33554, 33556, 33560, 33564, 33565, 33566 and 33569 are at Hengrove.

So we should expect at least another 4 vehicles from Manchester to move all the ex Leicester ones to Weston.

 

[vicbury]

I'm sorry but first quote. If you say that First are wrong then say "in comparison to Webberbus " then by definition you're saying they're getting it right. As for financial stability, that's why they were massively in debt and why they were foreclosed upon. How you can say otherwise is an interesting idea of business stability and I'm sure their creditors think so!

As for the U1, half that fleet gets stood up. Currently it's the B7TL fleet that is fully depreciated. In future it will be the bendis. The U1 enjoys a year round demand off peak, more so at Bath than BSU. That is what the new fleet will do. When hols are here, the demand will lessen and the bendis will instead be parked up. Simples

How do Go-Ahead make the business case for their university services in Southampton then? Virtually the whole fleet on those routes is less than 3 years old. Southampton does have a significant cohort of overseas students, like Bath, however services are still reduced and quieter out of term time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Weird. One or the other makes sense (i.e. First either upgrade them or sell them) but not both.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Weird again as I thought Bristol CC had given up on bendis and Metrobus would be all singles (dispite First Bristol now being mostly deckers). A streetcar is actually more manouverable than a current full length single decker.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I assume very close to Barnsley.

This doesn't surprise me at all. If you look at any of the highway drawings for the Metrobus routes, all stops are 18m long. Now what kind of bus is 18m long..!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How do Go-Ahead make the business case for their university services in Southampton then? Virtually the whole fleet on those routes is less than 3 years old. Southampton does have a significant cohort of overseas students, like Bath, however services are still reduced and quieter out of term time.

I don't know - it may be a different form of funding model. Greater ability to generate year round traffic from locals? You tell me? I'm familiar with Bath - less so with Southampton.

Just be X happens somewhere, it doesn't mean that the same will happen with a different firm in a different city.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So we should expect at least another 4 vehicles from Manchester to move all the ex Leicester ones to Weston.

Aren't there 10 coming down from Manchester?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To quote "I'm really beginning to lose faith in First and they are forgetting about who are most vital to them in comparison to Webberbus - commuters and the young and their drivers." I'm stating here that First were focusing more on combating Webberbus than thinking of their commuters, young and their drivers. I stated that First had the wrong approach to dealing with Webberbus, I partially still agree with that. I said that First were doing things wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't say that Webberbus were doing things right.

So why can't they put 55 plate vehicles on U5? During holidays 55 plate bendies will be off the road, why not 55 plate deckers from U5 too? Anyway argument over - if they put new vehicles on U5, would you agree to owing me a pint of Thatchers? If they don't next September, I owe you. Fair?

My point was that before you start accusing people of writing essays, take a look closer to home. Glass houses and all that. At least my missive on the 51 was balanced and accurate - yours praised the financial stability of Webberbus about 3 weeks before they went bust with debts of £1.5m

Now, I like the occasional bet so let's make it more interesting. If there's new vehicles (brand new) on the U5 by September 2017, I'll give £55 to cancer research. If not, you do. Sounds fair and it'll do some good

As for the disparity with the U1, let's make it crystal clear

• The U1 has a decent year round trade for a core number of vehicles - this will be the new e400mmc
• In term times, they have to support with additional vehicles. These are currently fully depreciated B7TLs in Purple. In the new world these will be B7LAs
• Surely the B7LAs will have outstanding depreciation? Yes, but who in the group will want some 11 year old bendis - FWoE would be stuck with the depreciation if they simply withdrew them so it's the least worst option

As for the U5/U6, they are clearly weaker than the U1 and don't have the same level of off peak demand (from a frequent service in terms to half hourly). Therefore, it makes sense to use depreciated fleet. Remember that to all but a handful of people, they'll get on a refurbished bus with a dateless plate and not have a clue as to if they're on a 5, 10 or 15 year old bus and, as long as the refurb is decent, it doesn't breakdown and turns up on time, the heating and the wifi work, they won't care either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd keep my eye on those and the Streetlites at Westbury!

How intriguing? You inferring that the Streetlites may head to Wells for 172-4 and the Scanias for the 126? Or am I misinterpreting you?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From what I've heard from informed sources was that 32036 was indeed DDA'd whilst being converted, and that another will too be converted for next year. There were supposed to be a batch of mid life deckers heading from Bristol to Weymouth, but the strike has potentially seen that put off in favour off the 32xxx batch being converted to DDA and kept on.

That was my understanding of the original plans and potential revisions

 

[carlberry]

This doesn't surprise me at all. If you look at any of the highway drawings for the Metrobus routes, all stops are 18m long. Now what kind of bus is 18m long..!

That was the original plan for Metrobus and theres no real reason not to retain the ability to use them (and if they have I assume that's the reason for testing with bendis), however I cant see anybody investing in new bendis. However the last BCC plan involving new Bendis (the P&R) ended up with 10 year old cast offs so you can never tell!
All bus stops need extra space anyway to allow for the BMW owners that think they're car parks!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From what I've heard from informed sources was that 32036 was indeed DDA'd whilst being converted, and that another will too be converted for next year. There were supposed to be a batch of mid life deckers heading from Bristol to Weymouth, but the strike has potentially seen that put off in favour off the 32xxx batch being converted to DDA and kept on.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That was the original plan for Metrobus and theres no real reason not to retain the ability to use them (and if they have I assume that's the reason for testing with bendis), however I cant see anybody investing in new bendis. However the last BCC plan involving new Bendis (the P&R) ended up with 10 year old cast offs so you can never tell!
All bus stops need extra space anyway to allow for the BMW owners that think they're car parks!

How very dare you.... I have a BMW (At least it's not an X6 though)

I'm a bit dubious about FTRs - it's still the issue of a two man vehicle that carries no more than a B7RLE or Streetlite Max. New bendis - rare as hen's teeth!

 

[carlberry]

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How very dare you.... I have a BMW (At least it's not an X6 though)

I'm a bit dubious about FTRs - it's still the issue of a two man vehicle that carries no more than a B7RLE or Streetlite Max. New bendis - rare as hen's teeth!

Sorry! Should have said SOME BMWs owners!

The FTRs are a problem (in the same way as the Excels at Muller Road) in that it's going to be ages before they can be written off.
Somebody in First should be able to find a business case for a vehicle that takes up twice as much garage space as anything else, has only slightly more seats than most Solos, needs twice as many staff to run it, poor fuel consumption and the driver has to be specially trained. They do have a wow factor (until you get on and have to stand and you're got to rereg them so people think that they're newer than they actually are now).

 

[baza585]

I don't know - it may be a different form of funding model. Greater ability to generate year round traffic from locals? You tell me? I'm familiar with Bath - less so with Southampton.

Just be X happens somewhere, it doesn't mean that the same will happen with a different firm in a different city.

AFAIK the Southampton Unilink contract specifies buses below a certain age, which is why they tend to get replaced regularly, and cascaded into the GSC fleet. The frequencies do drop out of term time, but the Unilink service has killed off almost all other services to that part of the city so non-students do use them and the reductions in frequency are not that severe (8bph to 6bph on the U1 service for example).

GSC also have several seasonal services (New Forest Tour, Purbeck Breezers) so the spare vehicles from both Bournemouth and Southampton uni services tend to back-fill other routes at times, rather than sit idle), and also get used as part of the special events fleet (Festivals, events P&R etc.).

I've no idea re the Bath uni funding model but then I suspect neither has the OP.

 

[Class 33]

Suspense at the moment as to what will happen to the 51...

From the Save 51 Facebook page...

This morning was the deadline for accepting the rescue package brought by the Save 51 bus campaign and local Lib Dem Councillors. The deal with Wessex Buses, negotiated by Cllr Gary Hopkins and Cllr Tim Kent, would see a full service on the 51 route even better than we presently have. But concern is growing as the Council and Mayor have sat on the deal for 3 days now. There is now only an hour or two left to agree to save the 51.

Silence from @BristolCouncil on deal we brought to them to save the 51 bus … 1 hour left for Mayor to act

And some comments from passengers....

Travelled home tonight on the busiest bus EVER experienced. The driver seriously couldn't cram any more people on the bus, it was dangerous. Dread to think what it will be like in 2 weeks time with the withdrawal of the 51. A guy at the front took a selfie showing just how uncomfortable it was. Let's hope that he posts it on First's website.

I don't have much reason to get the bus as I work locally. But this morning I had to collect my car from kwik fit on the wells road. Just between charnwood road and Hengrove shops the downstairs of the bus was full of such a wide range of people including a large number of elderly people, a lady with a baby in a pushchair, another lady with an older child in a wheelchair, students and families. If this bus route were to close, it would have such a detrimental effect on so many people's independence. I wish you luck in your campaign to save the 51

I'm at Temple Meads bus stop with 5 ladies who've been waiting over an hour for a 50. The next bus has been cancelled. So another 20 min wait. Hope this one turns up! Doesn't bode well for when the 51 is cancelled!

I live off the Wells Road and am a wheelchair user. Without a 51 bus service I will be unable to directly access the hospital at Hengrove (changing buses in a wheelchair is no fun, trust me) and it will be even more likely that the buses that do cover the Wells Road will be so over-crowded that using them in my wheelchair will either be impossible or extremely difficult. I already can't get on because of buggies pretty often, and find manoeuvring on or off busy buses very difficult as it is. Losing an entire bus service scares me, frankly.

It almost seems that First have been running this route down for some time now, and I really am not surprised by this.

On one occasion alone, I have been left waiting an hour and a half (at least three buses should have arrived in this period, and other people had been left waiting for over 2 hours) and during that time 3 people gave up and walk off in disgust - that's potentially £12 lost (if they bought day tickets) on one period on one stop. How much money did they lose due to people walking away on other stops that day alone? And First Bus reckon the route's not profitable - maybe it would be if the buses turned up when advertised so people could trust them.

I have also been told that the drivers will "chop off" the Ridgeway Lane and Wharnecliffe Gardens loop by going straight down Fortfield Road if they are running late.

I do still use the bus on occasion (not often as I can't trust it to actually turn up, or I try and have to use the car instead) - my local 51 stop is less than a minute's walk away. If it is scrapped I will have to potentially walk 8 to 10 minutes to the nearest bus stop for either the 50 or the 376/379.

I fully agree and support the need for the 51 to serve Hengrove and Whitchurch, however, it also serves the commuter route between Broad Walk Square, Wells Road, Temple Meads and the Centre. The services that currently that run along from the Centre to Broad Walk shops and return (including the 51) are already full and cramped at peak commuter times. Without the 51 running it is going to be horrendous at these times for passengers.

Guess there should be further news later on today.

But there will certainly be consequences if the 51 is not saved. People in Hengrove and Whitchurch with no direct bus link to Broad Walk Shopping Centre and Wells Road, and South Bristol Hospital. Overcrowding and increased journey times on the 2 and 376, full buses meaning people can not board and having to wait for the next service to hopefully board that one!

Not impressed atall that it appears Bristol City Council are remaining silent on the issue!

Also people were only given just 5 weeks notice that the 51 is to be cancelled. If a bus operator is due to cancel a service, it should really give a lot more notice than that, to give more time for hopefully another operator to take over the service.

 

[THarris123]

I don't know - it may be a different form of funding model. Greater ability to generate year round traffic from locals? You tell me? I'm familiar with Bath - less so with Southampton.

Just be X happens somewhere, it doesn't mean that the same will happen with a different firm in a different city.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Aren't there 10 coming down from Manchester?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


My point was that before you start accusing people of writing essays, take a look closer to home. Glass houses and all that. At least my missive on the 51 was balanced and accurate - yours praised the financial stability of Webberbus about 3 weeks before they went bust with debts of £1.5m

Now, I like the occasional bet so let's make it more interesting. If there's new vehicles (brand new) on the U5 by September 2017, I'll give £55 to cancer research. If not, you do. Sounds fair and it'll do some good

As for the disparity with the U1, let's make it crystal clear

• The U1 has a decent year round trade for a core number of vehicles - this will be the new e400mmc
• In term times, they have to support with additional vehicles. These are currently fully depreciated B7TLs in Purple. In the new world these will be B7LAs
• Surely the B7LAs will have outstanding depreciation? Yes, but who in the group will want some 11 year old bendis - FWoE would be stuck with the depreciation if they simply withdrew them so it's the least worst option

As for the U5/U6, they are clearly weaker than the U1 and don't have the same level of off peak demand (from a frequent service in terms to half hourly). Therefore, it makes sense to use depreciated fleet. Remember that to all but a handful of people, they'll get on a refurbished bus with a dateless plate and not have a clue as to if they're on a 5, 10 or 15 year old bus and, as long as the refurb is decent, it doesn't breakdown and turns up on time, the heating and the wifi work, they won't care either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How intriguing? You inferring that the Streetlites may head to Wells for 172-4 and the Scanias for the 126? Or am I misinterpreting you?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That was my understanding of the original plans and potential revisions

Fair enough on the bet.

 

[carlberry]

Also people were only given just 5 weeks notice that the 51 is to be cancelled. If a bus operator is due to cancel a service, it should really give a lot more notice than that, to give more time for hopefully another operator to take over the service.

The changes were published on 18th July by VOSA and at this point the council should already have known. I dont know where you get 5 weeks from.
Any operator can register it up to the 4th September as long as VOSA agrees the short notice which they'd discuss with Bristol CC.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry! Should have said SOME BMWs owners!

The FTRs are a problem (in the same way as the Excels at Muller Road) in that it's going to be ages before they can be written off.
Somebody in First should be able to find a business case for a vehicle that takes up twice as much garage space as anything else, has only slightly more seats than most Solos, needs twice as many staff to run it, poor fuel consumption and the driver has to be specially trained. They do have a wow factor (until you get on and have to stand and you're got to rereg them so people think that they're newer than they actually are now).

Possibly one of the worst ideas that First ever came up with. I can't imagine how the conversation went....

"Right, so it's an articulated vehicle but more expensive than a standard bendi to buy. However, it only has the capacity of a standard B7RLE. It has crippling MPGs. Oh, and it needs a two man crew as if it wasn't expensive enough..... where do we sign?"

I don't know how long they've depreciated them over but if it's the standard 15 years, there's still a bit to go

 

[matt_splat]

On the u5 and u6 discussion I do wonder if first will get some new deckers for the x39 in the future which will release b9s for the uni routes maybe it's just a idea but could happen

 

[baza585]

Possibly one of the worst ideas that First ever came up with. I can't imagine how the conversation went....

"Right, so it's an articulated vehicle but more expensive than a standard bendi to buy. However, it only has the capacity of a standard B7RLE. It has crippling MPGs. Oh, and it needs a two man crew as if it wasn't expensive enough..... where do we sign?"

I don't know how long they've depreciated them over but if it's the standard 15 years, there's still a bit to go

Given Lochhead's desire to screw down costs, I can only assume he was on holiday when the decision to go ahead with ftr was taken, OR it was a monumental folly on his part to show his management style was not just about costs!! . Either way it was a big mistake, but other groups make big mistakes too (Stagecoach's purchase of MAN engined buses, Go Ahead's ill-fated West Midlands adventure etc. etc.)

ftrs would be best used where the second person and fare collection isn't required (eg on shortish Park and Rides like Eden Project), or maybe on university services where there are few/no farepayers. Trouble is there are not enough of these to utilise them all. Ultimately First has to make a financial decision; lay them up and take the depreciation, sell them for peanuts (big hit on profits in the year of sale) or find creative ways to use them and accept the high running costs.

Bristol's Metrobus???