Jeremy Corbyn's Traingate

[phoenixcronin]

ahaha https://twitter.com/Virgin_TrainsEC/status/768205796693999616

 

[richw]

There seems to be tweets from members of the public on that service. Apparently there weren't enough seats together for him and his team and due to the nature of whatever they were filming or doing they needed to stick together.
The public are saying that Virgin staff moved quite a few other passengers around including a several getting free upgrades so Virgin could accommodate Corbyn and his crew with seats together.

 

[Harbornite]

In canse anyone dinnae know how to use that link, here's the pic.

Basically it's an internet meme, a screenshot from a "song" vid-thingy with the lyrics "why the f#ck you lying".

 

[AlterEgo]

There seems to be tweets from members of the public on that service. Apparently there weren't enough seats together for him and his team and due to the nature of whatever they were filming or doing they needed to stick together.
The public are saying that Virgin staff moved quite a few other passengers around including a several getting free upgrades so Virgin could accommodate Corbyn and his crew with seats together.

Further undermining Corbyn, who said it was "ram packed". Bull.

 

[FenMan]

Challenge him to withdraw or sue him then.

Fail on DPA.
Fail on Privacy Policy.

Ooh! A squirrel!

 

[richw]

Further undermining Corbyn, who said it was "ram packed". Bull.

But also confirming there wasn't sufficient seating for him and his cronies without Virgin rearranging which reportedly took 45 minutes!

 

[AlterEgo]

But also confirming there wasn't sufficient seating for him and his cronies without Virgin rearranging which reportedly took 45 minutes!

There was sufficient seating, just not together. They had no reservations. Tough titty.

 

[Cowley]

I've been out all day and I'm not going back through all the posts on this, but has anyone called it Train Gate/Seat Gate or Coach H Gate yet? Just wondering.

Branson has stitched him up good here. Probably not wise to take the Bearded one lightly Jeremy. He's pretty good at PR himself.

 

[Groningen]

So not sitting, while there are plenty of seats available. It seems to be called #traingate on Twitter. What is true and what is not?!

This has also reached the Netherlands:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/26467380/__Rel_over_volle_of_niet_volle_trein__.html
http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/partijleider-jeremy-corbyn-in-het-nauw-na-vals-treinfilmpje~a512e458/
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland...jke-onthulling-voor-eerlijke-corbyn~a4363035/

Not sure sure whether the links work and it is in Dutch!

 

[jon0844]

Traingate seems to have won.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But also confirming there wasn't sufficient seating for him and his cronies without Virgin rearranging which reportedly took 45 minutes!

And why should Virgin have had to go to all that trouble?

 

[All Line Rover]

There was sufficient seating, just not together. They had no reservations. Tough titty.

In other words, the guard - like most Virgin guards - was trying to be helpful in upgrading some passengers to first class. Nice of Corbyn to then criticise the company!

One can hardly complain about a train being "rammed" just because a large group cannot sit together. This can be a struggle even on very lightly loaded trains if one is not prepared to ask passengers to move.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Branson has stitched him up good here. Probably not wise to take the Bearded one lightly Jeremy. He's pretty good at PR himself.

Nah, Jeremy Corbyn has stitched himself up.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Alternatively it sounds like Jeremy Corbyn employ's a team of people who are out of their depth.

Employing somebody who can make a train reservation would also be useful.

I get the run through the train trying to find a 4 seat - that's what I thought they were up to by leaving those seats in H alone and heading forwards but to carry out a stunt like that in those circumstances was just crass. They were bound to be found out.

Now that the passengers seem to have confirmed events, his team really should stop trying to spin this one. It looks lame and prolongs the story in the media.

 

[ExRes]

Why? If you believe Virgin 100% then you haven't seen the bigger picture. Private company annoyed at somebody who was giving them bad PR and supports renationalisation? They have much to gain by 'discrediting' him.

Virgin didn't need to discredit Corbyn, he or his 'advisers' did it all for them
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Like doesn`t the press of this little hovel of a nation like to kick this guy enough. He does this one thing wrong maybe and half the forum is wetting itself in fury.

If you don't like 'this little hovel of a nation' then why don't you remove yourself to one that is better and the sooner the better, I think you'll find that YOU are one of the part 'wetting itself in fury'

 

[tomoufc]

I've just seen the video on Newsnight, which give a different impression to the stills highlighted by Virgin. In the video you can see a lot more of the seats occupied in Coach H when Corbyn makes his first visit. Not all the seats, but it is also impossible to tell if there might be a bag or clothing on the others (or, of course, there might not - it doesn't prove it either way). Perhaps one or two seats are free, but quite probably none adjacent for the team (including his wife). They're looking for some seats together, so move up the train, as you might in that situation. They probably know that there's a whole load of standard coaches to go, having just walked through or past all the first class ones. If one or two seats appear to be free in the standard coach nearest the London end, why not move up the train looking for a bit more space?

They are then unable to find seats in the remaining standard class coaches, and once they reach the far end of the train in Coach A, surmise that any free seats back in Coach H (or 'maybe free' - who knows when clothing is on seats, or someone uses more than their 'fair share' of a bay table?), will have now been taken. They chat about the situation, about all the people standing on the train, and agree that it would be a good opportunity to highlight overcrowding on services.

They were reasonably quickly seated in standard by the guard, after some first class upgrades were reportedly performed, and the party were returned to Coach H anyway, perhaps with the guard's knowlege that the Leader of the Opposition was on the train, after Corbyn refused a 1st class upgrade. (As an aside, Corbyn accepting the offer would have caused a much worse media reaction - Corbyn using his privilege to get free first class travel, while ordinary punters stand, on the day he announces his transport plan. It would have been sensible for the guard, having accepted this, to go to the next most obvious thing to do - upgrade standard class passengers in the nearest coach to First class, in order to keep movements on a busy train to a minimum)

Perhaps, given the great customer service shown by the guard, it wasn't a great idea to record the video (it is unclear whether Corbyn's praise of the train staff was in relation to their efforts to find him a seat, but it certainly could be). It certainly was a hit on social media, but it seems to have been a bit ill-conceived. Perhaps it would have been better to catch the 17:00 out of Paddington to make the point. But that would have been more of a 'stunt' than this.

What really isn't clear is that Corbyn lied at any stage. Perhaps he did - anything is possible. But it hasn't been proven as far as I can tell. It seems to me that at the very worst it wasn't a good day at the office publicity-wise, but I do feel for Corbyn's inexperienced media team. Sometimes what works well on Facebook is altogether different when refracted through the mainstream press and television, especially when much of them are so ideologically opposed to you.

 

[theageofthetra]

Virgin didn't need to discredit Corbyn, he or his 'advisers' did it all for them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If you don't like 'this little hovel of a nation' then why don't you remove yourself to one that is better and the sooner the better, I think you'll find that YOU are one of the part 'wetting itself in fury'

North Korea and Venezuela are just lovely this time of year I believe.

 

[FenMan]

IWhat really isn't clear is that Corbyn lied at any stage. Perhaps he did - anything is possible. But it hasn't been proven as far as I can tell. It seems to me that at the very worst it wasn't a good day at the office publicity-wise, but I do feel for Corbyn's inexperienced media team. Sometimes what works well on Facebook is altogether different when refracted through the mainstream press and television, especially when much of them are so ideologically opposed to you.

"At the very worst, it wasn't a good day at the office publicity-wise but I do feel for Corbyn's inexperienced media team. ".

Surely you mean at the very best?

The Labour Party's Executive Director of Strategy and Communications is the "inexperienced" Seamus Milne, who has worked for The Guardian in increasingly senior capacities since 1984, so he has 30+ years experience in the media business. Milne is a dyed in the wool Stalinist, so it's not too surprising that the many media folk who don't share his opinion that Uncle Joe wasn't such a bad guy really (got to break a few eggs, right?) have the knives out for him.

The Labour Party's decision to introduce direct democracy to elect its leader has given the likes of Milne their chance. Corbyn is a pawn (a useful idiot even?) in a much bigger game.

 

[WatcherZero]

The 'Witness' on the train was Momentums National Organiser Emma Rees though, don't know how experienced she is.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I doubt the ICO will give a toss as well, but largely because no breach has occurred. To quote from the ICO's CCTV code of practice's section on releasing CCTV images:I would suggest that a train vestibule is more akin to a bookshop than a drug rehab centre.

I suggest you read the guidance again. You could even read the bit I quoted, relating to publishing CCTV pictures on the internet. It's on about page 12.

Most data protection experts seem to be saying Virgin were wrong to release the unpixellated pictures of people. Virgin themselves seem to think they are wrong, because they pulled the pictures and pixellated them. Most data protection experts are saying the unpixellated pictures are a breach.

So if virgin can make such an elementary editing mistake then, no, I don't think their lawyers checked it. And it also makes me question their competence more generally.

 

[al78]

Virgin didn't need to discredit Corbyn, he or his 'advisers' did it all for them
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If you don't like 'this little hovel of a nation' then why don't you remove yourself to one that is better and the sooner the better, I think you'll find that YOU are one of the part 'wetting itself in fury'

Just because someone lives in a country does not mean they can't criticize the worst aspects of it. One way we can make improvements is to stand up to the worst of people.

Your statement is like telling someone not to complain about being punched in the face because some people get murdered. :roll:

 

[38Cto15E]

Ii think this episode has blown Corbyns chances of having a VTEC 91 named after him.

 

[jon0844]

Ii think this episode has blown Corbyns chances of having a VTEC 91 named after him.

Actually I can rather Virgin's PR machine deciding to name a train 'ram-jam express' or something now!

 

[embers25]

I've just seen the video on Newsnight, which give a different impression to the stills highlighted by Virgin. In the video you can see a lot more of the seats occupied in Coach H when Corbyn makes his first visit. Not all the seats, but it is also impossible to tell if there might be a bag or clothing on the others (or, of course, there might not - it doesn't prove it either way). Perhaps one or two seats are free, but quite probably none adjacent for the team (including his wife). They're looking for some seats together, so move up the train, as you might in that situation. They probably know that there's a whole load of standard coaches to go, having just walked through or past all the first class ones. If one or two seats appear to be free in the standard coach nearest the London end, why not move up the train looking for a bit more space?

They are then unable to find seats in the remaining standard class coaches, and once they reach the far end of the train in Coach A, surmise that any free seats back in Coach H (or 'maybe free' - who knows when clothing is on seats, or someone uses more than their 'fair share' of a bay table?), will have now been taken. They chat about the situation, about all the people standing on the train, and agree that it would be a good opportunity to highlight overcrowding on services.

They were reasonably quickly seated in standard by the guard, after some first class upgrades were reportedly performed, and the party were returned to Coach H anyway, perhaps with the guard's knowlege that the Leader of the Opposition was on the train, after Corbyn refused a 1st class upgrade. (As an aside, Corbyn accepting the offer would have caused a much worse media reaction - Corbyn using his privilege to get free first class travel, while ordinary punters stand, on the day he announces his transport plan. It would have been sensible for the guard, having accepted this, to go to the next most obvious thing to do - upgrade standard class passengers in the nearest coach to First class, in order to keep movements on a busy train to a minimum)

Perhaps, given the great customer service shown by the guard, it wasn't a great idea to record the video (it is unclear whether Corbyn's praise of the train staff was in relation to their efforts to find him a seat, but it certainly could be). It certainly was a hit on social media, but it seems to have been a bit ill-conceived. Perhaps it would have been better to catch the 17:00 out of Paddington to make the point. But that would have been more of a 'stunt' than this.

What really isn't clear is that Corbyn lied at any stage. Perhaps he did - anything is possible. But it hasn't been proven as far as I can tell. It seems to me that at the very worst it wasn't a good day at the office publicity-wise, but I do feel for Corbyn's inexperienced media team. Sometimes what works well on Facebook is altogether different when refracted through the mainstream press and television, especially when much of them are so ideologically opposed to you.

Wow your last paragraph highlights why you said everything else but that entire post is rubbish. The video shown shows just the same number of empty seats (its the same video from where the stills were taken!). Also even if there were coats and bags on every single spare seat (which obviously is extremely unlikely on the reserved seats not used in the other coach), could he not politely ask for them to be removed like every other commuter in the world does on a daily basis when it became apparent there were allegedly no other seats and his entire media post that day was a lie and so how is he not a liar? Seriously the level his supporters will got to trying to justify his actions at all stages of his leadership are frightening...cloud cuckoo land doesn't even come close.

 

[EAD]

NB - I am posting about the incident, not political beliefs and wish to keep it that way.

I have seen the stills and now as of last night the Corbyn machine trying to claim they were right irrespective. One thing it underlines to me is the wider lack of public understanding re reservations (yes we have debated that on here) and seats on a train. There may well have been difficulty spotting free seats when he got on and many may have had a reservation but no person at that stage, but on balance I think there were seats available once underway but as is often the case, it would involve talking to people or walking a fair distance to find them - we often see that people huddle like sheep when there is actually space elsewhere on busy services.

I noticed this morning a spokesperson for him trying to turn it into an argument on privatisation along the lines of well Branson would say all this because he gets our money and does nicely out of running a franchise etc. Of course this is a) irrelevant to the question of whether there were free seats and b) is a mass oversimplification given many franchises pay in and the level of any subsidy/level of pay in to the alters to DfT's favour over the life of the franchise. Even if publicly owned - where does said spokesperson expect new capacity and trains to come from? Let me guess the oft heard "add some carriages on..."

This is a stupid spat, but one of JC's making in having used his time on the floor to make that video.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I noticed this morning a spokesperson for him trying to turn it into an argument on privatisation along the lines of well Branson would say all this because he gets our money and does nicely out of running a franchise etc.

Virgin Trains East Coast actually pays a sizeable amount to the Treasury, not the other way around.

 

[highdyke]

Latest gaff by Corbyn's office is Branson relies on the taxpayer for his TOC profits.

"I think it’s quite clear, Richard Branson is literally laughing all the way to the bank at the British taxpayers' expense. Let’s be clear about this and exactly what’s going on here. No train operating company in this country would be able to actually turn a profit without the vast subsidy of British taxpayers. This guy’s a tax exile. In the last year this chap has made around about £53m direct from the taxpayer, that’s profit before any other thing to do with turnover."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...tax-exile-richard-branson-over-virgin-trains?

Of course the £9.3 billion premium he's paying to the DFT for VTEC, which wouldn't change if the railway was nationalised, thus is order to pay the loss making parts, clearly forgotten. BR used to do this too (Think MGR, London commuting, certain IC flows).

The entire 'expensive' ticket argument on ECML is because of long standing policies by the DFT on a very congested ECML to extract as much as possible. There's not a huge amount of space to run many more trains on this very multi-user route. As for overcrowding Corbyn voted against HS2...

Another reason to question Corbyn's competence. Good at protesting, crap on the detail.

 

[Phil.]

Like doesn`t the press of this little hovel of a nation like to kick this guy enough. He does this one thing wrong maybe and half the forum is wetting itself in fury.



No, they`re pretending to be worthy heads of a TOC . Tell that to the majority of their commuters.

"Little hovel of a nation"
That'll be the little hovel that people are risking their lives to get to after passing much greater places.
Calm down dear, it's only politics.

 

[jonty14]

Don't know if it has been mentioned but nearly all those empty seats had reservation tickets on them.

 

[Phil.]

Don't know if it has been mentioned but nearly all those empty seats had reservation tickets on them.

It doesn't mean that they're occupied though. In my experience up to 20% of reserved seats are never taken.