Class 37 - How long can they really last

[Y961 XBU]

With the Class 37 being among the oldest Trains still in daily Service i was wondering just how much longer they can go on for and exactly why operators have shown such loyalty towards them?

 

[Harbornite]

With the Class 37 being among the oldest Trains still in daily Service I was wondering just how much longer they can go on for and exactly why operators have shown such loyalty towards them?

I don't want to be pedantic but class 37s aren't trains and might not even be the oldest vehicles in service on the national network. What about the GBRF/ DRS class 20s and Network Rail Class 31s, although Network are pretty much done with these. There's also Caroline, the inspection saloon which dates from the late 1950s (I think).

Get in contact with RVEL/LORAM and they might tell you how long a 37 will last after one of their overhauls. I wouldn't be surprised if they survive with freight companies for at least 10 more years.

Operators use them because they have good route availability and are cheaper than buying new locomotives.

 

[OneThirtyEight]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-52_Stratofortress

Providing it's well maintained, as long as it's doing the job required.

 

[TheEdge]

I believe DRS spent what can only described as a sh*t-ton of money refurbishing them which has meant they are probably the most reliable spot hire fleets out there.

Compare the difference between the reliability of the Anglia 47s and 37s...

 

[CosherB]

I believe DRS spent what can only described as a sh*t-ton of money refurbishing them which has meant they are probably the most reliable spot hire fleets out there.

Compare the difference between the reliability of the Anglia 47s and 37s...

Particularly the policy of focusing on having 37/4s at the core of their Type 3 fleet, with a few 37/0 and 37/6s to make up numbers.

 

[47802]

With the Class 37 being among the oldest Trains still in daily Service i was wondering just how much longer they can go on for and exactly why operators have shown such loyalty towards them?

I would imagine regular customers on the Cumbrian Coast will be pleased to see the back of them ASAP.

I was intending to have a trip on them on Bank Holiday Monday, but surprise surprise my train was cancelled Ok in this case it was the DBSO rather than the 37 but same result, tried again last Thursday for the same train but oh dear cancelled again.

I did try later in the day on Bank Holiday Monday and amazingly it actually ran without breaking down it was even nearly on time!

 

[AndrewE]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-52_Stratofortress

Providing it's well maintained, as long as it's doing the job required.

...except that fatigue could finish an aluminium-alloy vehicle long before the other systems pack up, whereas for things based on steel structures it's the other way round. Summarised here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit

Ferrous alloys and titanium alloys have a distinct limit, an amplitude below which there appears to be no number of cycles that will cause failure. Other structural metals such as aluminium and copper, do not have a distinct limit and will eventually fail even from small stress amplitudes. In these cases, a number of cycles (usually 107) is chosen to represent the fatigue life of the material.

(That is 10 to the power 7 cycles, not 107!) So the 37s with their massive steel girder bodysides may be almost indestructible!

 

[Moodster020]

New is great for 'showboating' (look at my nice shiny new loco). Its not good for business when the cost of new exceeds the money it generates.

 

[CosherB]

Their continued use is a function of there not being a replacement for them, even though they are now over 50 years old. Had a "Class 38" been built, we may not be having this discussion, but that's now a moot point ....

A lack of a contemporary Type 3 has prompted GBRf to procure a significant number of 73s that has enabled them to form their micro-fleet of 73/9s.

I doubt the 37s will now be subjected to a "57" type re-engineering programme. Just watch that comment come back to haunt me!

 

[Harbornite]

I doubt the 37s will now be subjected to a "57" type re-engineering programme. Just watch that comment come back to haunt me!

I heard about a proposal from DRS to stick CAT engines in some of them, hasn't happened though.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't want to be pedantic but class 37s aren't trains and might not even be the oldest vehicles in service on the national network. What about the GBRF/ DRS class 20s and Network Rail Class 31s, although Network are pretty much done with these. There's also Caroline, the inspection saloon which dates from the late 1950s (I think).

What's the oldest operational class 08 not operating on a preserved railway? Genuine question here by the way.

 

[Cowley]

What's the oldest operational class 08 not operating on a preserved railway? Genuine question here by the way.

I think I remember reading on here somewhere in some thread that the oldest one still registered was built around 1957, so not a lot older than some of the class 20s. I'll see if I can find it.
Edit
Can't seem to link it but the thread was in April, 'Old and New ' 20007 was built 1957.
60 years old next year!
08389 being the oldest registered 08 at the time built 1958.

 

[Phil.]

37s are a conventional engined locomotive built by English-Electric. Therefore they'll last forever.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Our 08410 was new to Newton Abbott in 58.... .Flexibility economy,simplicity and efficiency. Prefered a 33 but not complaining !!

 

[Harbornite]

I wonder which class will stay longer in service: 37 or 47? If I had to bet on one, it would be the former.

 

[co-tr-paul]

The 47has been much modified so harder to obtain a second hand standard fleet is one reason why 37s are preferred#waiting4apair2turnuponourNightRivirera.

 

[alexl92]

The 47has been much modified so harder to obtain a second hand standard fleet is one reason why 37s are preferred#waiting4apair2turnuponourNightRivirera.

I was going to ask why DRS and others were disposing of 47s in favour of 37s. Makes sense!

 

[Harbornite]

I was going to ask why DRS and others were disposing of 47s in favour of 37s. Makes sense!

Rail ops group have bucked the trend by buying 5 class 47s off Rivieria. I wonder how long they will last with ROG!

 

[Helvellyn]

Could the DRS 37/4s be re-engined with redundant Mirrless MB275T engines from DB Class 60s?

I ask in all seriousness because 37901-904 were the testbeds for the MB275T albeit rated at 1340kW (1800 hp) compared to 2310 kW (3100 hp) in the Class 60s.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Nah, the engine itself wouldnt fit.

 

[Cowley]

Could the DRS 37/4s be re-engined with redundant Mirrless MB275T engines from DB Class 60s?

I ask in all seriousness because 37901-904 were the testbeds for the MB275T albeit rated at 1340kW (1800 hp) compared to 2310 kW (3100 hp) in the Class 60s.

Oh no, you said the S word (60), don't do that!
Anyway, the original power unit is probably better

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Wouldnt their efforts be better spent repairing 90 050?.....

 

[47802]

Could the DRS 37/4s be re-engined with redundant Mirrless MB275T engines from DB Class 60s?

I ask in all seriousness because 37901-904 were the testbeds for the MB275T albeit rated at 1340kW (1800 hp) compared to 2310 kW (3100 hp) in the Class 60s.

Would there be any point, there current passenger work is likely to get the boot at the end of 2019 at the latest when the coaching stock would need significant modification, and the new build and cascaded DMU's should be available by then. In fact if I was northern I would look at replacing the 37's as soon as cascaded units either from GWR or the North West electrification become available.

 

[ac6000cw]

Could the DRS 37/4s be re-engined with redundant Mirrless MB275T engines from DB Class 60s?

I ask in all seriousness because 37901-904 were the testbeds for the MB275T albeit rated at 1340kW (1800 hp) compared to 2310 kW (3100 hp) in the Class 60s.

I think the 37/9s had the (smaller) 6-cylinder version of the MB275T - the 60s use the 8-cylinder version.

 

[sprinterguy]

Wouldnt their efforts be better spent repairing 90 050?.....

Why would DRS want to spend any money or effort repairing a heavily stripped Arriva owned loco (unless it's been sold on again, but I wouldn't have thought so given that DRS don't operate any 90s)?

 

[Harbornite]

Why would DRS want to spend any money or effort repairing a heavily stripped Arriva owned loco (unless it's been sold on again, but I wouldn't have thought so given that DRS don't operate any 90s)?

DB surely? Arriva haven't owned any 90s to my knowledge. Come to think of it, 90050 might be a FL loco. However, I agree with what you are saying.

 

[sprinterguy]

DB surely? Arriva haven't owned any 90s to my knowledge. Come to think of it, 90050 might be a FL loco. However, I agree with what you are saying.

Freightliner's active class 90s are leased from Porterbrook, however 90050 is owned by Arriva UK Trains. Not sure what went on there, it was purchased by LNWR so you would think that logically it would have come into the Arriva fold when Arriva took on LNWR, but a few online sources report that it was subsequently bought by Freightliner themselves in November 2014, yet Platform 5 now show it as being owned by Arriva in 2016, and the usually reliable ABrail site shows it still owned by LNWR.

 

[CosherB]

To clarify:

On the 2nd December 2014, 90050 transferred ownership from LNWR to Freightliner and was moved to Basford Hall where she can be found until further notice. The loco is to continue being used as a donor for the time being.
There is a possibility that this loco or part of her could be used as a static display at some point in the future and this can’t be ruled out, but this is just one of a number of outcomes for this last class 90 to be built and outshopped by BREL at Crewe Works in 1990.

http://www.class90electriclocogroup.co.uk/stored_serviceable.html

So 90050 is likely to never run on the mainline again.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Freightliner's active class 90s are leased from Porterbrook, however 90050 is owned by Arriva UK Trains, having passed to them when Arriva took over LNWR.

Are you sure? I thought that Freightliner owned their 10 active 90s. Porterbrook own 90001 - 15 and, of course, are on lease to AGA.

 

[sprinterguy]

Are you sure? I thought that Freightliner owned their 10 active 90s.

Yes, to the best of my knowledge. I don't have any sources to hand, written or online, that suggest otherwise.

 

[CosherB]

Yes, to the best of my knowledge. I don't have any sources to hand, written or online, that suggest otherwise.

The Porterbrook website only lists the 15 locos on lease to AGA ....

https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/rolling-stock/fleet