London Bridge reconstruction works

[JamesRowden]

I salute your approach sir (although I cannot agree that every standing at the back of the platform is either workable or remotely practical).

But let's not fall out - the point I was trying to highlight was not about our respective commutes, but about the farcically narrow platforms which wont accommodate the numbers of passengers they should do. I think it will lead to safety issues.

I never said that everyone should do it. Just an individual who doesn't like people walking behind them on the platform in the present climate.

 

[ComUtoR]

Wasn't it brought up on another thread that the plan is that people will wait down on the concourse until their train arrives rather than wait on the platform.

 

[JamesRowden]

Wasn't it brought up on another thread that the plan is that people will wait down on the concourse until their train arrives rather than wait on the platform.

I think they'd be allowed once their train is next. Otherwise station dwell times would be extended.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think they'd be allowed once their train is next. Otherwise station dwell times would be extended.

Usually everyone piles on to the platform and waits. This causes crowding. Now you only really need to be on the platform for when your train is due. It works ok at other places. Take a look at Charing Cross. You wait on the concourse until your train is posted and then you head to the platform. London bridge will now have the same mentality. Wait downstairs till your platform is called and then head up the escalator.

 

[Sunset route]

Wasn't it brought up on another thread that the plan is that people will wait down on the concourse until their train arrives rather than wait on the platform.

Mean while back in the real world with all the Charing Cross trains (to and from) and Thameslink trains (north and south) all operating from dedicated platforms, the only lottery will be the Cannon Strret services operating from 3 palfrorms and the Southern termini platforms, where you would need to hang about down stairs. With this in mind I think most people will wait on the platform, better to part of the crowd than having to fight your way through it.

 

[carriageline]

Mean while back in the real world with all the Charing Cross trains (to and from) and Thameslink trains (north and south) all operating from dedicated platforms, the only lottery will be the Cannon Strret services operating from 3 palfrorms and the Southern termini platforms, where you would need to hang about down stairs. With this in mind I think most people will wait on the platform, better to part of the crowd than having to fight your way through it.

Don't (quite) get what your aiming for? Charing Cross trains will have the choice of 4 platforms once the work has been done (2 in each direction.) and Cannon St will have 3 as you say. Currently Charing Cross trains are using 3 platforms as it is


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[ComUtoR]

Any ideas on regulation yet or is it too early to tell ? My main concern (other than narrow platforms, signal sighting, confusing stop marks, dispatch...) is that when it is all completed and all 4 platforms are in operation that the metro services will consistently be held for mainline. I'm glad the bottleneck has been removed for the Thameslink clash but now SE side has a bottleneck over the bridge. I still have that dread of when anything through London Bridge breaks.

Will there still be opportunity to change ends at London Bridge when the brown stuff hits the spinning thing ?

Cheers in advance.

 

[Sunset route]

Don't (quite) get what your aiming for? Charing Cross trains will have the choice of 4 platforms once the work has been done (2 in each direction.) and Cannon St will have 3 as you say. Currently Charing Cross trains are using 3 platforms as it is


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When all is open 6&7 (one island) are for down Charing Cross and 8&9 (one island) are up Charing Cross are they not, so people being people will just go up and just wait.

 

[carriageline]

When all is open 6&7 (one island) are for down Charing Cross and 8&9 (one island) are up Charing Cross are they not, so people being people will just go up and just wait.

Sorry I see what you mean now! Yeah that is right


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[Sunset route]

Sorry I see what you mean now! Yeah that is right


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Singing from the same simplifier now lol

 

[N/100]

When all is open 6&7 (one island) are for down Charing Cross and 8&9 (one island) are up Charing Cross are they not, so people being people will just go up and just wait.

When all is open, people heading out of London on South Eastern will have a choice of Cannon St, Charing Cross and in some cases TL services. So not all platforms 6&7.

 

[Sunset route]

When all is open, people heading out of London on South Eastern will have a choice of Cannon St, Charing Cross and in some cases TL services. So not all platforms 6&7.

Yes and no, we are as a population, lazy, and when the patterns and platforms are all worked out that is where the majority will go. Apart from the smart platform hoppers with their smart phone apps.

 

[ijmad]

The Thameslink Programme twitter posted this a few days ago.
https://twitter.com/TLProgramme/status/771377307508498432

Feels potentially disingenuous, given the small print says "excluding voids, columns and platform buildings".

If we subtract the relatively small footprint of the stairs on the old platforms, from the enormous chasms they've designed in for the stairs and escalators on the new platforms, I wonder how well that 25% increase holds up!

 

[Bald Rick]

Any ideas on regulation yet or is it too early to tell ? My main concern (other than narrow platforms, signal sighting, confusing stop marks, dispatch...) is that when it is all completed and all 4 platforms are in operation that the metro services will consistently be held for mainline. I'm glad the bottleneck has been removed for the Thameslink clash but now SE side has a bottleneck over the bridge. I still have that dread of when anything through London Bridge breaks.

Will there still be opportunity to change ends at London Bridge when the brown stuff hits the spinning thing ?

Cheers in advance.

Yep, changing ends will be possible in most of the through platforms.

Regulation will be the same as it was before last January, ie first in first out unless there is a very specific request. The 'bottleneck' over the bridge is the same as it always was; except the junction at Ewer Street is quicker than the old Met Jn, so trains to/from the slows clear the conflict point about 8 seconds more quickly. Every second counts there as you can imagine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When all is open, people heading out of London on South Eastern will have a choice of Cannon St, Charing Cross and in some cases TL services. So not all platforms 6&7.

TL aside (and we'll wait to see if that actually happens) - Much the same as the situation that lasted for the previous 40 years and more!

 

[ComUtoR]

I have the Junction speeds at 15mph. Are they going to be increased to 20 ?

Cheers as always BR

 

[carriageline]

Agreed with BR. First in first out seems to work best. We had a go at trying to get a 4 late out in front of a ontimer (On timer went in first) this was heading countrybound

The late one was fairly close behind, by the time the second one was pulling in and nearly stationary the first one was sending waiting at signal. By the time the whole dispatch process was complete then the ontimer was now 4-5 late, making the whole process void.

So it definetly seems first in first out works best. Of course, any help tips and suggestions are muchly appreciated!


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[ComUtoR]

Of course, any help tips and suggestions are muchly appreciated!

From a passenger perspective ? I don't think it matters too much if your waiting at London Bridge for a Charing Cross service as they will just get whichever is quickest and under normal circumstances the only problem I forsee will be train hopping if you get a situation where 2 trains are both on the up platform. If I was a passenger then I'd look out for whichever gets the road first.

The main issue for passengers I see will be if trains are regulated onto the other platforms. Aren't all platforms eventually going to be reversible ? I'm sure there will be a situation where your regulated onto the down platform. Will a service be held if passengers need to switch due to a platform alteration ? or will there be a more rigorous approach to keep the ups and downs together.

For me. The problem is that my delay gets compounded and turn around times are often so tight you cannot make time back when changing ends. If I arrive late then invariably I go out late. It gets worse if your held for a fast. From a Driver perspective its about preventing any knock on delay. I've been held before and its caused such a knock on effect that I end up getting not to stop orders. Contrary to popular belief, I hate being late/running fast/getting caped/being sent ECS.

 

[carriageline]

What a day on the eastern side that's for sure!! 3 issues that pretty much ruined today's train service.


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[infobleep]

From a passenger perspective ? I don't think it matters too much if your waiting at London Bridge for a Charing Cross service as they will just get whichever is quickest and under normal circumstances the only problem I forsee will be train hopping if you get a situation where 2 trains are both on the up platform. If I was a passenger then I'd look out for whichever gets the road first.

The main issue for passengers I see will be if trains are regulated onto the other platforms. Aren't all platforms eventually going to be reversible ? I'm sure there will be a situation where your regulated onto the down platform. Will a service be held if passengers need to switch due to a platform alteration ? or will there be a more rigorous approach to keep the ups and downs together.

For me. The problem is that my delay gets compounded and turn around times are often so tight you cannot make time back when changing ends. If I arrive late then invariably I go out late. It gets worse if your held for a fast. From a Driver perspective its about preventing any knock on delay. I've been held before and its caused such a knock on effect that I end up getting not to stop orders. Contrary to popular belief, I hate being late/running fast/getting caped/being sent ECS.

If it's not practical to hold trains then the only thing I can see happening is passengers running to the other platform. Does the new layout take into account passengers running for a train that has switched platforms at the last minute?

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[carriageline]

Switching platforms in the down direction at the last minute is banned, unless absolutely necessary. You have a minute or so after the train leaves Charing Cross and that's about it.

Of course, when the service is up the wall it's different. It takes a fair bit of working out to get it to work then.


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[infobleep]

Switching platforms in the down direction at the last minute is banned, unless absolutely necessary. You have a minute or so after the train leaves Charing Cross and that's about it.

Of course, when the service is up the wall it's different. It takes a fair bit of working out to get it to work then.


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During disruption no matter how minor, it usually is at times or that's my experience elsewhere.

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[carriageline]

During disruption no matter how minor, it usually is at times or that's my experience elsewhere.

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It usually is what mate? Sorry didn't quite get your post!


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[telstarbox]

Southeastern were dishing out Costa Coffee gift cards yesterday as an apology for the disruption - does anyone know how much credit is on one of these?

 

[QueensCurve]

Southeastern were dishing out Costa Coffee gift cards yesterday as an apology for the disruption - does anyone know how much credit is on one of these?

Did they offer the option of gift cards for less bland coffee? I think I would need a strong one, full of flavour.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does the new layout take into account passengers running for a train that has switched platforms at the last minute?

If you are really asking "do the new passenger handling routes make some specific arrangement for getting quickly from one island to another", then no they don't, and I can't think of any through station where this would be possible.

Until someone invents an island platform with more than two faces I think we are pretty much f@@ked

 

[infobleep]

If you are really asking "do the new passenger handling routes make some specific arrangement for getting quickly from one island to another", then no they don't, and I can't think of any through station where this would be possible.

Until someone invents an island platform with more than two faces I think we are pretty much f@@ked

It was lovely be fine if they try to limit the number of platform changes at the last minute during disruption. I don't know if that's possible.

It didn't always seem to be possible at London Euston but that was a station station rather than a through one. Here we are talking about through lines.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It usually is what mate? Sorry didn't quite get your post!


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That the platform is changed. To be fair the delay might be close to 5 minutes when the platform is changed but when is a delay no longer minor? TOCs wouldn't consider 5 minutes to not be minor. At lest not publicly.

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[carriageline]

As far as I'm aware, the platforms are not being changed last minute. They are being given at least 10 minutes notice of the platform change. Last minute changes are being completely avoided.


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[infobleep]

As far as I'm aware, the platforms are not being changed last minute. They are being given at least 10 minutes notice of the platform change. Last minute changes are being completely avoided.


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That's really good. If successful, hopefully they can use it as a best practice and introduce it elsewhere.

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[ijmad]

Until someone invents an island platform with more than two faces I think we are pretty much f@@ked

Not an issue after 2018 of course when there'll be one island for up, one island for down for CX.

I wonder if any thought was ever given to arranging the Cannon Street platforms in the new layout so there'd be two islands with a reversible track in the middle. Would be the same track/platform area and make it easier on people in the evening peak!

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if any thought was ever given to reversing the position of platform 1 and line 1 in the revised layout, so there'd be an island for up and an island for down for Cannon Street, even though the middle track would be reversible.

That would be a pretty reasonable solution AFAICS, with separate platform numbers used for the centre road depending on direction so there'd be no need for people to end up on the wrong platform, e.g. in the am peak trains would be using say P4 and P3, with down trains on P1 only, and in the evening trains would use P1 and P2, with P3 unused and P4 for up trains.

In an ideal world, i.e. with standardised rolling stock, you could make a good case for platform edge doors as well...