GWR Loco Hauled Stock

[PHILIPE]

There are rumblings that GWR may be using LHCS for a period due to the 150/1s being transferred to Northern having to progressivly depart early, and before the arrival of the Turbos, to enable them to be re-furbished and undergo the Disability Mods prior to their re-entering service. I'm saying no more at this stage because I know nothing definite as everything I've read is merely pure speculation with people already "diagramming" them and suggesting 57s. Probably on Cardiff to Taunton route as before, though. Bear in mind that 57s were replaced by 67s during the period of use before due to their unreliability.

 

[Ash Bridge]

There are rumblings that GWR may be using LHCS for a period due to the 150/1s being transferred to Northern having to progressivly depart early, and before the arrival of the Turbos, to enable them to be re-furbished and undergo the Disability Mods prior to their re-entering service. I'm saying no more at this stage because I know nothing definite as everything I've read is merely pure speculation with people already "diagramming" them and suggesting 57s. Probably on Cardiff to Taunton route as before, though. Bear in mind that 57s were replaced by 67s during the period of use before due to their unreliability.

Could they perhaps be considering using their own 57/6s as opposed to DRS 57/3s do you think?

 

[PHILIPE]

Could they perhaps be considering using their own 57/6s as opposed to DRS 57/3s do you think?

There's nothing being used yet, pure speculation. If it happens, I'd hardly think their own 57/6s would be used otherwise there would be nothing to work the Sleeper.

 

[Topgun333]

Plenty of 67s hanging around.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What coaching stock is available that they'd likely use?

 

[co-tr-paul]

I have heard nothing but we now own 57303 and 57306 as of yesterday...... .

 

[PHILIPE]

Heard from another Forum that the 57/3s have been obtained for the purpose of dragging Class 387s between Old Oak Common and Reading Depots for which paths have been arranged.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Heard from another Forum that the 57/3s have been obtained for the purpose of dragging Class 387s between Old Oak Common and Reading Depots for which paths have been arranged.

I am aware that we have been after at least 1 for several years and this use too does not surprise me. Don't know yet what work is to be done to them to bring them into line with ours - we are only allowed to do minimal servicing on the hired DRS locos - and no doubt will end up allocated to us at PZ when OC closes but whatever, the extra numbers will always be welcomed...... .

306 did not get off to a good start as per my Night Riviera Updates thread...... !

 

[43096]

I have heard nothing but we now own 57303 and 57306 as of yesterday...... .

Own or lease/hire?

 

[co-tr-paul]

Own or lease/hire?

Now own as of yesterday I understand from internal emails.

 

[superalbs]

Now own as of yesterday I understand from internal emails.

That was disallowed after FGW bought some power cars, wasn't it?

 

[route:oxford]

That was disallowed after FGW bought some power cars, wasn't it?

First Rail Holdings bought them didn't they?

 

[43096]

First Rail Holdings bought them didn't they?

Correct. 12 power cars and 42 trailers bought from Porterbrook Leasing.

 

[MatthewRead]

I wonder if they'll be used on any lines around Devon as I go there every August

 

[Rapidash]

If there's one thing using the allstops hst out of Paignton in the mornings, and back again at night has taught me, it is that slam doors lose quite a bit of time with quick ease.

There's a stop roughly every five-minute on the Riviera/Avocet sections of the Metro. Not really suitable I'd reckon. Plymouth - Cardiff could work, I guess.

 

[CosherB]

I have heard nothing but we now own 57303 and 57306 as of yesterday...... .

I daresay that it's not a total coincidence that 304 and 309 have recently had overhauls at Eastleigh for DRS. I think I'm right saying that DRS leased 303 and 306 from Porterbrook as ex-NR locos, so First will now have to pick up the maintenance tab?

 

[PHILIPE]

Ever changing picture. Much of the speculation seems to be based on rumour and uncertainty over dates when this will move and that will move, some of this due to DFT dithering. To be fair to them, however, every time anything slips in time, new plans have to be drawn up. However, somebody on another Forum with insider contact, has categorically stated there will be no LHCS.

 

[richw]

Now own as of yesterday I understand from internal emails.

Leased from Porterbrook as per the other 4 directly to GWR rather than via DRS. Same contract terms as the other 4.

 

[alexl92]

From RAIL Magazine's facebook page...

Up to three locomotive-hauled trains will enter traffic with Great Western Railway (GWR) next May, running between Cardiff and Taunton.
They will be used to replace Class 150 and ‘153’ diesel multiple units that are being sent north for use by Northern in time for the May timetable.
An Invitation to Tender (ITT) has been issued. The locomotive-hauled coaching stock (LHCS) must be formed of up to four carriages, and the ITT specifies that they will run between May and December 2017, but that there could be a change in October. There is the possibility that the trains could run for more than that seven-month period.

How long has this been in the pipeline, and who is likely to bid? I was under the impression that DRS don't have much spare stock at the moment so I can't see them bidding.

 

[1179_Clee2]

From RAIL Magazine's facebook page...



How long has this been in the pipeline, and who is likely to bid? I was under the impression that DRS don't have much spare stock at the moment so I can't see them bidding.

According to RAIL magazine 809. Rail operations group are interested for locomotives.
The BIGGEST PROBLEM is coaching stock !!!!! For such a short contract (seven months) it wont be cost effective to renovate coaches that have been sat around for 5 to 10 years out of use.
So we are only looking at spare stock, DBC, DRS, riviera and west coast don't have enough spare stock that is serviceable.
The ONLY coaches available that are currently serviceable are loco hauled Class 442 or the Pretendolino. The later is at or is going to TPX for driver training on Class 68's but as BOTH TPX and GWR are run by First could a agreement happen ?????
The biggest problem with the Pretendolino is only 1 Brake Van (DVT) so only can form 1 train.

 

[Townsend Hook]

The biggest problem with the Pretendolino is only 1 Brake Van (DVT) so only can form 1 train.

Not necessarily, if you top-and-tail the set with two locos.

 

[1179_Clee2]

Not necessarily, if you top-and-tail the set with two locos.

Having never worked on the national rail network I would not know.
I have worked on a preserved line and to give manual dispatch on a loco hauled train you do, irrespective of how many loco's you have on the train.
You are required to check the gauge be it vacuum or air, so brakes are released you then and only then can you stand on the platform to wave your green flag to give a manual RIGHT AWAY. (ALSO doors tail light ect ect)
Even back in the FRAGONSET days of topped and tailed loco hauled train with through blue star coupling so both loco's worked, you still needed a brake van.
Have thing's changed or will the guard ride in the rear loco ????????

 

[Townsend Hook]

Having never worked on the national rail network I would not know.
I have worked on a preserved line and to give manual dispatch on a loco hauled train you do, irrespective of how many loco's you have on the train.
You are required to check the gauge be it vacuum or air, so brakes are released you then and only then can you stand on the platform to wave your green flag to give a manual RIGHT AWAY. (ALSO doors tail light ect ect)
Even back in the FRAGONSET days of topped and tailed loco hauled train with through blue star coupling so both loco's worked, you still needed a brake van.
Have thing's changed or will the guard ride in the rear loco ????????

You probably would need to find a brake van for each set, but no reason why the Pretendolino (for instance) couldn't be split down and divided between sets.

 

[CosherB]

Not necessarily, if you top-and-tail the set with two locos.

The Pretendolino fleet had two DVTs, 82126 and 82101. Both are now owned by DRS and both are at Loram/RVEL for refurbishment.

The prevailing view online seems to be that the Mk3 rakes for TPE will be top-and-tailed by 68s and will not use DVTs.

I would take the view that the GWR LHCS will also be top-and tail. I'm sure that GWR would prefer to have only one type of loco to deal with, although it doesn't mean that both t-a-t locos have to be fitted with ETS.

Loco options are varied:

DBC 67s
DRS 37/0, 37/4, 57/0, 57/3, 68
ROG 37/6, 37/7, 47/8

Are Riviera so stuck for air-con Mk2 stock that they couldn't provide, say, 6 x TSOs and 3 x BSOs?

DBC presumably have their ex-Fife Circle Mk2s and reserve fleet in storage that could be used?

 

[1179_Clee2]

The Pretendolino fleet had two DVTs, 82126 and 82101. Both are now owned by DRS and both are at Loram/RVEL for refurbishment.

The prevailing view online seems to be that the Mk3 rakes for TPE will be top-and-tailed by 68s and will not use DVTs.

I would take the view that the GWR LHCS will also be top-and tail. I'm sure that GWR would prefer to have only one type of loco to deal with, although it doesn't mean that both t-a-t locos have to be fitted with ETS.

Loco options are varied:

DBC 67s
DRS 37/0, 37/4, 57/0, 57/3, 68
ROG 37/6, 37/7, 47/8

Are Riviera so stuck for air-con Mk2 stock that they couldn't provide, say, 6 x TSOs and 3 x BSOs?

DBC presumably have their ex-Fife Circle Mk2s and reserve fleet in storage that could be used?

Lets look at a few points that may OR MAY not be correct.

Top and tail with non ETS lead loco.
Back in the FRAGONSET era the lead loco had to be able to turn OFF the ETS or the rear loco needed to be manned. This is why Fragonset created the 31/6 loco's through wired but able to control the ETS when leading.

Riviera short of coaches.
Riviera have 11 Mk2 TSO's in use by Scotrail AND 2 in use in Anglia on the new short set the original being a DRS set. This leave's them with 11 operational and 3 stored.

DBC ex Fife Circle Mk2's.
Most coaches have been stored in either Bescot yard or Millerhill yard for several years, although with no garentee they have probably come under attack by the local's while stored be it grafetti or smashed windows that allow water damage. Too costly to fix ????????

 

[CosherB]

Lets look at a few points that may OR MAY not be correct.

Top and tail with non ETS lead loco.
Back in the FRAGONSET era the lead loco had to be able to turn OFF the ETS or the rear loco needed to be manned. This is why Fragonset created the 31/6 loco's through wired but able to control the ETS when leading.

Riviera short of coaches.
Riviera have 11 Mk2 TSO's in use by Scotrail AND 2 in use in Anglia on the new short set the original being a DRS set. This leave's them with 11 operational and 3 stored.

DBC ex Fife Circle Mk2's.
Most coaches have been stored in either Bescot yard or Millerhill yard for several years, although with no garentee they have probably come under attack by the local's while stored be it grafetti or smashed windows that allow water damage. Too costly to fix ????????

That's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes!

What other LHCS alternatives are there? Demic DRS MK3s? Demic Porterbrook Mk3s at LM? 442s?

 

[Townsend Hook]

I imagine it's been covered elsewhere in the forum in intricate detail, but how much work would a 442 need to take power from standard loco ETS?

 

[43096]

That's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes!



What other LHCS alternatives are there? Demic DRS MK3s? Demic Porterbrook Mk3s at LM? 442s?

Porterbrook have no stored Mark 3 day coaches.

 

[hello]

Are 73's already wired to be able to work with 442's in push/pull mode

 

[CosherB]

Porterbrook have no stored Mark 3 day coaches.

There are some at Long Marston that I think are still owned by Porterbrook, together with a small Mk3 fleet with DB?