Possible future franchise announcement surprises

[The Ham]

In some of the recent franchise announcements there have been some surprises, such as TPE loco hauled trains, all new trains for GA and even the level of change being proposed in the GWR extension.

As such what surprises would you like to see, or could we see based in recent experience which goes against what we've seen in the past, when future franchises are announced?

Some possible examples I could think of would be, all for the South Western franchise:
- more frequent services to Bristol
- new units for WofE
- extending the Salisbury 6 (Salisbury to Romsey via Southampton) to Reading to provide more capacity between Salisbury and Basingstoke
- extensing the Salisbury 6 services to run Salisbury to Southampton and back to Salisbury via Eastleigh, with the reverse happening, to increase frequency between Southampton and Salisbury.
- extending the Woking stoppers to Guildford to increase capacity and frequency between the two.
- replacement of the 444's with a larger fleet with comparable facilities (less the micro buffet to increase capacity)

 

[kevjs]

East Midlands Trains replacing all the meridian's, HSTs, and Liverpool to Norwich trains with modern, hybrid, intercity stock.


Derby to Crewe to be extended to Nottingham and Manchester Airport.

 

[87015]

Redeployment of XC HSTs in direct award which should please a fair few.

 

[Haydn1971]

CrossCountry replacing their fleet with Class 230s Now that would be a surprise !

 

[Blindtraveler]

LM.

Order of D trains with appropriate platform extentions on Marston vale and Nuneaton Coventry.

Transfer of 444s from SWT with mid life refurb to include removal of shoe guear, fitment of panto and introduction onto Trent Valley and fast Euston Birmingham meaning longer 350 services in and around the midlands and out of Euston and potentially freeing up some units for cascade.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

- replacement of the 444's with a larger fleet with comparable facilities (less the micro buffet to increase capacity)

What would the the point in doing that? Any replacement would need to be compatible (in service) with 450s which would mean an equivalent number of class 350 units (providing the same overall number of seats across all the units) would have to transfer over to SWT to replace the 444s.

It's already been mentioned in a past thread that removing the micro buffet would only gain about half a dozen seats and you'd still have to find space to store the trolley for a trolley service.

 

[Merseysider]

East Midlands Trains replacing ... Liverpool to Norwich trains with modern, hybrid, intercity stock.

Derby to Crewe to be extended to Nottingham and Manchester Airport.

^This.

Also, the current Northern services from Liverpool to Vic to reverse to Salford Crescent, then onwards to somewhere in Lancs/Yorks would be nice, (yes, I know it's probs not gonna happen) and perhaps some LMs to extend beyond Birmingham to various destinations (Stratford-u-A, Kidderminster etc) but we can but dream.

 

[krus_aragon]

Wales & Borders:

New franchise acquires new stock for Manchester (Liverpool?) - South Wales services with first class provision. 175s released for North Wales and West Wales services, aided by 156s(?) released by other franchises.

North Wales-Birmingham services are separated from Cambrian services. Class 175s used to cascade 158s for Cambrian services.

150s released by 175 cascade to the Valley Lines, removing the need to use Pacers post-2020. The 150s bridge the gap until electrification is completed.

Simples! :P

 

[The Ham]

What would the the point in doing that? Any replacement would need to be compatible (in service) with 450s which would mean an equivalent number of class 350 units (providing the same overall number of seats across all the units) would have to transfer over to SWT to replace the 444s.

It's already been mentioned in a past thread that removing the micro buffet would only gain about half a dozen seats and you'd still have to find space to store the trolley for a trolley service.

Removing the micro buffet would allow the provision of 3 rows of seats, possibly 4, given that there's 4 seats in a row (2+2) then that would be at least least 12 seats per unit or 24 seats when run as pairs. By my maths that is at least 3% more seats.

Buffet trolleys VERY rarely use the buffet space, and if needed will just wait in one set of doors.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Removing the micro buffet would allow the provision of 3 rows of seats, possibly 4, given that there's 4 seats in a row (2+2) then that would be at least least 12 seats per unit or 24 seats when run as pairs. By my maths that is at least 3% more seats.

Buffet trolleys VERY rarely use the buffet space, and if needed will just wait in one set of doors.

You'd do well to get 6 or maybe 8 additional seats given that opposite the buffet is the guard's office.

 

[Monty]

Removing the micro buffet would allow the provision of 3 rows of seats, possibly 4, given that there's 4 seats in a row (2+2) then that would be at least least 12 seats per unit or 24 seats when run as pairs. By my maths that is at least 3% more seats.

Buffet trolleys VERY rarely use the buffet space, and if needed will just wait in one set of doors.

You'd be lucky to get 6 seats in that area, 4 is doable but six is a push. There was some talk of removing the micro buffets and setting that area aside for luggage, something that is sorely needed on the 444s. However its gone very quiet on that front and you are unlikely to see any proposals until the next franchise.

 

[J-2739]

Virgin runs HS2, making it 3 franchises...

Illuminati confirmed!!

 

[route:oxford]

Transport Scotland quickly identifies that the 2+4 and 2+5 HSTs are performing poorly with regular stops and often steep gradients with Abelio walking away from the franchise.

Power-car failures are having a deleterious affect on timetabling through single track sections. An emergency timetable re-write has taken place with rail-replacment buses serving stations with difficult gradients to allow services to pass through without stopping. Scotrail has had to hire-in a class 37 as a banking unit to help with the gradient at Cowlairs. Clag from the 37 has resulted in multiple fire alarm activations at the nearby Buchanan Galleries shopping centre.

Transport Scotland force an early break-clause with the ROSCO and re-tender the franchise with procurement of 5-car class 800 series units via new rolling stock company "Alba Traction & Rolling Stock Services" or "AlbaTRoSS" and an early start to the electrification of the line between Dunblane and Perth commences for operational efficiency.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What would I like to happen as a surprise?



The SWT re-franchising in 2017 to result in the 455s and 456s swapping to the Windsor side services and the 707s to work the Epsom side services instead.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Waterloo-Reading
Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour
Waterloo-Weymouth (inc doubling the single track section)
Waterloo-Exeter St Davids (inc doubling of all single track sections)

Converted to OLE (for Waterloo-Exeter OLE installed)

 

[CyrusWuff]

Chiltern:

Another 20 year franchise to encourage further investment
Electrification to follow that of the "CrossCountry core"
Princes Risborough - Aylesbury doubling
Grade separation at Princes Risborough so trains heading to Aylesbury don't conflict with those on the main line
Amersham - Aylesbury handed back over to LU operation to avoid the need to procure dual voltage units
New North Main Line redoubled, with long distance services diverted back to Paddington once capacity is released by Crossrail
Services extended beyond Aylesbury Vale Parkway to a reopened Brackley and an M6 Parkway near Rugby
And, for the truly silly, buildings on former railway land adjacent to Marylebone to be demolished and the station expanded to the originally planned ten platforms

 

[Bevan Price]

Next WCML franchise not going to Virgin/Stagecoach.
9 coach Pendolinos to replace all residual Voyagers on Euston - Birmingham - Scotland services (and Blackpool after electrification.).
Batch of new class of 11 coach tilting trains.
Batch of 10 coach bi-mode trains for North Wales & Shrewsbury services.
Euston - Liverpool increased to 2 per hour.

 

[JaJaWa]

Virgin runs HS2, making it 3 franchises...

Illuminati confirmed!!

I'd heard ICWC and HS2 would be on the same franchise to prevent revenue issues for ICWC?

 

[mugam4]

- extending the Salisbury 6 (Salisbury to Romsey via Southampton) to Reading to provide more capacity between Salisbury and Basingstoke
- extensing the Salisbury 6 services to run Salisbury to Southampton and back to Salisbury via Eastleigh, with the reverse happening, to increase frequency between Southampton and Salisbury.

I'm not sure more capacity is needed Salisbury - Southampton; the Totton - Eastleigh stretch would be more in need. Perhaps a Romsey - Totton service that waits for the GWR to overtake at Central to provide a through connection round the 6, and a better-than-hourly service to the local stations in Southampton?

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not sure more capacity is needed Salisbury - Southampton;

...is exactly what the route studies have always said. A third service on the Romsey to Salisbury section is not wanted or needed.

 

[adrock1976]

I am not sure if this is meant to be a humourous thread or not, but here goes anyway.

1) The re-introduction of the Brighton Belle Express running London Victoria - Brighton, calling at Clapham Junction (Pick up southbound, set down northbound), East Croydon, Haywards Heath, and Brighton. Although this would not be as sexy or glamourous as to when the Pullman Company operated this service in days of yore, the Class 142 Pacers could be dusted off and be specially dedicated for this service.

2) The re-introduction of The Sussex Scot running Brighton - Glasgow Central. This would call at Haywards Heath, Redhill, East Croydon, Kensington Olympia, Old Oak Common (for HS2), Reading, Oxford, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Bolton TS, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme:The Lake District, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell, and Glasgow Central.

As I feel the time is now right to lose my virginity and as I am feeling dirty, I'm going to suggest that The Sussex Scot is to be operated by

*wait for it*

*drum roll*

Loco hauled Class 442s.

The 442s could operate under their own power to Kensington Olympia, then a loco to be attached to continue northbound.

All in all, the townsfolk of Croydon would have had 3 things resurrected in recent years. They brought back trams, so they might as well have the Brighton Belle Expess and The Sussex Scot too.

I'll duck and hide now

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Derby to Crewe to be extended to Nottingham and Manchester Airport.

I am sure that there are some on this website who can give actual historical chapter and verse to at least part of this particular aspiration.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I am sure that there are some on this website who can give actual historical chapter and verse to at least part of this particular aspiration.

Yes, I used to this service quite frequently, mainly Nottingham to Crewe, but at least once to Manchester airport.

There are a few of the ex- central trains links that would be nice to see back. A return of Nottingham/Leicester to Birmingham to the West Midlands franchise, allowing cross Birmingham services. (Including a new service to Gloucester via Worcester). Birmingham - Cardiff to Wales franchise, and Leicester to Stanstead, whoever objects the least to having it.

 

[kevjs]

I am sure that there are some on this website who can give actual historical chapter and verse to at least part of this particular aspiration.

Didn't realise it used to do that - I remember getting a Crewe to Nottingham direct once, alas it was a fully rammed 2 car Turbostar which started at Crewe an hour after I arrived there (thanks to a late running Pendalino on the WCML) which was sat in the platform the whole time I was waiting, yet I still had to stand all the way to Derby

Went via Manc Picc after that as it least there's something to do in Manchester...

 

[shaun]

1) XC to get add-on order of Class 800/802s to replace all Voyager and HST services. Voyagers cascaded to Cardiff - Nottingham and longer distance ATW and GWR regional services, freeing up 170s and 158s to provide extra capacity elsewhere.

2) Mk4 stock & DVTs from the 225s to supplement 68s and MK3s on Chiltern to provide an all-day IC-style service between London and Birmingham/Kidderminster. Not sure where the locos will come from though...

3) Bi-mode Pendolinos to replace Voyagers on North Wales and Edinburgh via Birmingham WCML services.

4) Pushing it but fleet of 801s for London Midland Crewe services, freeing up 350s for extra capacity.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Carmarthen - Aberystwyth becomes a committed obligation in the next Wales Franchise and to be served by bi-modes extending through to London Paddington (insurance for when the wires fail to reach Swansea this century)

Costed options to be included for Brecon - Merthyr / Hereford / Neath and Lampeter to Aberaeron.

 

[gg1]

Next WCML franchise not going to Virgin/Stagecoach.
9 coach Pendolinos to replace all residual Voyagers on Euston - Birmingham - Scotland services (and Blackpool after electrification.).
Batch of new class of 11 coach tilting trains.
Batch of 10 coach bi-mode trains for North Wales & Shrewsbury services.
Euston - Liverpool increased to 2 per hour.

I'd go for a variaton of this and order a fleet of 6 coach bi-modes, of an approriate size so that when doubled up they're the same length as a 11 coach Pendolino. Euston-Brum-Scotland would be combined with an hourly Shrewsbury service with the units splitting/joining at Wolverhampton. North Wales coast services would split at Chester with one unit terminating and the other continuing on to either Holyhead or Wrexham.

The surplus Voyagers would then go to Cross Country allowing them to withdraw their HSTs and run all services as either single 5 coach or doubled up 4 coach Voyagers

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Carmarthen - Aberystwyth becomes a committed obligation in the next Wales Franchise and to be served by bi-modes extending through to London Paddington (insurance for when the wires fail to reach Swansea this century)

Costed options to be included for Brecon - Merthyr / Hereford / Neath and Lampeter to Aberaeron.

If you'd said Caernarfon-Bangor I might have believed you...

 

[backontrack]

2) The re-introduction of The Sussex Scot running Brighton - Glasgow Central. This would call at Haywards Heath, Redhill, East Croydon, Kensington Olympia, Old Oak Common (for HS2), Reading, Oxford, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Bolton TS, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme:The Lake District, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell, and Glasgow Central.

You're missing the S&C

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd heard ICWC and HS2 would be on the same franchise to prevent revenue issues for ICWC?

That possibly sounds like wishful thinking by the incumbent. They'll be paranoid about becoming the second tier operator on the routes.

I don't think I've seen anything official about how the post HS2 ECML, WCML and MML services will be franchised or allocated, and wouldn't expect it any time soon.