Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[D365]

That may well be the case, but it was the Coventry to Nuneaton line of the actual 12 month trials that I was making reference to, not just that of the public launch.

The Planner was referring to the first date of the trial being known as well as the date of the public launch.

 

[47802]

I make it 3 franchises that have elected to bin 153's
GWR, Northern and Anglia

I was under the impression that while that was the original plan GWR Traction plan now gets changed on a more or less weekly basis and that some might now be staying and that the Short HST set solution is still not approved, with the Dft still looking at various alternatives. Who knows maybe we will still end up with D trains on GWR I know GWR essentially have 2 issues to deal with one is their longer term cascade plan with delayed electrification and the short term problem of the loss of some 150's to Northern while there cascade program is so delayed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there much difference between 158s/159s and 153s for drivers, guards and fitters?

I'm not a driver but AIUI even 153s and 155s have significant differences.

 

[A0]

Is there much difference between 158s/159s and 153s for drivers, guards and fitters?

158s and 159s should be almost identical - after all the 159s were a slightly modified batch of 158s when Regional Railways had over-ordered and NSE needed something for Waterloo - Exeter to replace increasingly unreliable class 47s.

 

[HLE]

That may well be the case, but it was the Coventry to Nuneaton line of the actual 12 month trials that I was making reference to, not just that of the public launch.

Paul, with regards to the trial commencement date, it's unlikely to be until early next year. I doubt there are many that know an exact date yet - even if they do it may be missed.

Drivers at Cov need training up on the unit before it can even begin to enter service on the line, and that isn't happening yet - the unit still requires modifications to be made.

 

[The Ham]

158s and 159s should be almost identical - after all the 159s were a slightly modified batch of 158s when Regional Railways had over-ordered and NSE needed something for Waterloo - Exeter to replace increasingly unreliable class 47s.

IIRC some of the 159's were 158's.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Paul, with regards to the trial commencement date, it's unlikely to be until early next year. I doubt there are many that know an exact date yet - even if they do it may be missed.

Drivers at Cov need training up on the unit before it can even begin to enter service on the line, and that isn't happening yet - the unit still requires modifications to be made.

I am most grateful to you for this well worded response to the query that I raised.

 

[The Planner]

The dates I have are specified in months in early 2017, no more specific than that, including the press runs and entering into service

 

[iantherev]

IIRC some of the 159's were 158's.

159101-8 were originally 158s.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

159101-8 were originally 158s.

Specifically TPE 158's, although slightly reformed with different centre cars. They had to deconstruct a 159/0 to figure out what mods were done to the trains in order to convert them as the original blueprints were "missing"

NSE needed something for Waterloo - Exeter to replace increasingly unreliable class 47s.

It was actually the 50's that had been deemed non-standard and had to go. They were deliberately concentrated on the mule and starved of maintenance to bump up the running costs compared to the 47's on T&C in order to gain financial authority for the 159's from government. Once secured the 47's took over the mule as well as T&C work. Ironically the 47's proved to be no more reliable than the 50's were. 50 025's demise at Ealing was while standing in for an unavailable 47!

 

[boxerdog]

Paul, with regards to the trial commencement date, it's unlikely to be until early next year. I doubt there are many that know an exact date yet - even if they do it may be missed.

Drivers at Cov need training up on the unit before it can even begin to enter service on the line, and that isn't happening yet - the unit still requires modifications to be made.

As far as I am aware the unit is still not main line certified. I have been led to believe the trials may possibly be from March 2017, whether this is passenger trials or the start of driver training I am unsure. It would only be link 1 drivers at Coventry that would sign the unit. The training manual/course is being written now.

 

[HLE]

As far as I am aware the unit is still not main line certified. I have been led to believe the trials may possibly be from March 2017, whether this is passenger trials or the start of driver training I am unsure. It would only be link 1 drivers at Coventry that would sign the unit. The training manual/course is being written now.

Yep it'll only be link 1. With it being rammed on the 2 morning peak trips off Nuneaton, full and standing all down the aisle with about 10 people in no.2 end vestibule most of the week, it'll certainly be welcomed on the peak services.

To retain traction knowledge aside from ECS movements, it would be a good idea that some of the early afternoon trips run as a 153 instead, with the 230 in the yard.....although I doubt the 2 ECS moves could be plugged into the existing diagrams.

To think some depots get the better work in link 1, Coventry get the 153's on the branch!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

As far as I am aware the unit is still not main line certified.

Even though they used to run on the main line (Richmond) as electric, does the adding of the diesel packs render their existing certification for the mainline void?

 

[D365]

Think it was more a special dispensation for LU rolling stock, though in any case I imagine it would still have to be recertified.

 

[sprinterguy]

Specifically TPE 158's, although slightly reformed with different centre cars.

Actually the 159/1s all retain their original centre cars from when they were 158s. It's only the 3-car 158s with Northern where centre cars have been swapped between units.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

IIRC some of the 159's were 158's.

Technically, they all were, though only the 159/1s spent any time in passenger service as 158s. At least some of the early 159/0s were used for driver training purposes as 158s prior to conversion at Rosyth.

 

[HH]

Someone has been touting retractioning D-Stock for some time - reminds me of the lunatic ideas to rebuild 442s to save their favourite stock

Watch this space...

 

[D365]

Watch this space...

?? Bit of a strange reply to make.

 

[HH]

Rumours suggest that both D-Trains and 442s are being considered by bidders for franchises.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rumours suggest that both D-Trains and 442s are being considered by bidders for franchises.

Where do the rumours emanate from?

 

[D365]

The last I heard of the 442s being reused was as LHCS for GWR in place of the touted 2+4 "HST GTI" sets.

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought the testing of 2+4 HST had gone very well.

 

[47802]

Well I guess its not beyond the bounds of possibility that LM might be considering a few D trains for their new franchise bid, however I think I might treat the 442 comments with a fair bit of disbelief.

I get the impression that first group are not keen on using the 442's and that the info that seems to be floating about is that they are still looking at up to 14 Mini HST's.

I can not imagine they would order more class 68's for this, are their enough spare taking into the TPE requirement, or 67's for that matter

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well I guess its not beyond the bounds of possibility that LM might be considering a few D trains for their new franchise bid

Can you think of a "ball-park" numerical figure of Class 230 units that London Midland would consider as part of their next franchise submission bid?

 

[47802]

Can you think of a "ball-park" numerical figure of Class 230 units that London Midland would consider as part of their next franchise submission bid?

Well clearly it wouldn't be many given there are only 2 lines that could really use them so maybe half a dozen, but as has been pointed out with the 139 LM are perhaps not averse to the odd quirky train.

But if you ask the question where would we see them in large numbers then I would strongly doubt its anywhere given new trains for Anglia and partial new trains for Northern.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

With 19 68's allocated to TPE and most of the remaining for chiltern there will only be 2 68's not in regular traffic. Pl3nty 67's tho although their tractive effort is poor in comparison

 

[jimm]

I thought the testing of 2+4 HST had gone very well.

There weren't likely to be any issues wth the timing trials for short HSTs - the issue over HSTs or any other interim solution to GWR's rolling stock needs in the West of England is going to be what it will cost to implement and whether the DfT will approve those costs - in the case of short HSTs this includes power doors and toilet tanks, both of which are already fitted to the 442s. Not that 442s would come without costs either, as I assume the idea would be to make the driving controls compatible with AAR multiple working kit, as used on 67s and 68s, to operate them in push-pull mode.

None of which has anything to do with 230s...

 

[The Planner]

Can you think of a "ball-park" numerical figure of Class 230 units that London Midland would consider as part of their next franchise submission bid?

Depends on the outcome of various planned infrastructure schemes in my view. If NUCKLE sorts itself out you could speculate on two for Coventry Nuneaton, another one for Leamington Coventry off the back of Kenilworth and maybe two for the Marston Vale if they went for that, so five maybe six if they wanted a spare. Another wild one could be if a bidder brought back Wolves Walsall direct services, that could bring you to seven. It could even just be the one for the trial and that is it.

 

[route:oxford]

Depends on the outcome of various planned infrastructure schemes in my view. If NUCKLE sorts itself out you could speculate on two for Coventry Nuneaton, another one for Leamington Coventry off the back of Kenilworth and maybe two for the Marston Vale if they went for that, so five maybe six if they wanted a spare. Another wild one could be if a bidder brought back Wolves Walsall direct services, that could bring you to seven. It could even just be the one for the trial and that is it.

Once Oxford's signalling is sorted out, but before E-W is complete...

I could imagine a set of 230s running a short-term OA franchise Bicester Village-Oxford every 30 minutes - thus effectively giving Bicester Village & Oxford Parkway a service every 15 minutes into Oxford.

It's what the service will be post E-W, so why not start it now?

At a guess at the layout of the signalling, units will be able to proceed past the Bicester chord to clear the line, then return into Bicester.

Very handy for Long Marston "depot"

Might even allow for the odd extra passenger service between HYB and OXF in lieu of an ECS.

 

[HH]

Where do the rumours emanate from?

"The industry". You don't seriously expect me to name names, do you?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

"The industry". You don't seriously expect me to name names, do you?

Err, no. Not wise. Social media has spies....