Ordsall Chord

[PR1Berske]

The Picc P15/16 and Oxford Road works still await ministerial approval for their Transport & Works order.

Joined up thinking!

 

[notlob.divad]

The O-Road and Pic works is definitely not needed for the December 2017 Franchise commitments. I cannot remember which specific commitments it was for but I think commitments post 2019 required the extra platform capacity which to me would indicate Calder Valley <-> Manchester Airport services being one of them.

 

[snowball]

Joined up thinking!

The Chord has always been ahead of the station works all along.

 

[Greybeard33]

The O-Road and Pic works is definitely not needed for the December 2017 Franchise commitments. I cannot remember which specific commitments it was for but I think commitments post 2019 required the extra platform capacity which to me would indicate Calder Valley <-> Manchester Airport services being one of them.

Yes, the additional service required from December 2019 is the hourly Northern Connect Bradford to Airport via the Chord.

 

[rebmcr]

The Picc P15/16 and Oxford Road works still await ministerial approval for their Transport & Works order.

The resident businesses of the arches (one of whom was a client of my old firm 2 years ago) kicked up a fuss when NR tried to serve notice with what was seen as inadequate compensation. I'm not sure what the result of that situation was but I believe MCC were dragged in to it.

 

[Sox]

So, post Chord, people from Leeds direction (heading for the airport) will pass through Victoria, Oxford Rd and Piccadilly.

Manchester city centre alighters can still exit platforms 13 and 14 Piccadilly but maybe, to avoid overcrowding/chaos, will choose to get off at Oxford Road instead.

So will Oxford Road, for a period of a few years or even permanently, be even more overcrowded than normal?

I like Oxford Road as it drops you off in a nicer part of the city.

 

[childwallblues]

So, post Chord, people from Leeds direction (heading for the airport) will pass through Victoria, Oxford Rd and Piccadilly.

Manchester city centre alighters can still exit platforms 13 and 14 Piccadilly but maybe, to avoid overcrowding/chaos, will choose to get off at Oxford Road instead.

So will Oxford Road, for a period of a few years or even permanently, be even more overcrowded than normal?

I like Oxford Road as it drops you off in a nicer part of the city.

It is a pity that Oxford Road does not have escalators. Are there plans for any?

 

[edwin_m]

It is a pity that Oxford Road does not have escalators. Are there plans for any?

Unlikely as it's a listed building. Lifts were added not too long ago.

 

[snail]

So, post Chord, people from Leeds direction (heading for the airport) will pass through Victoria, Oxford Rd and Piccadilly.

Manchester city centre alighters can still exit platforms 13 and 14 Piccadilly but maybe, to avoid overcrowding/chaos, will choose to get off at Oxford Road instead.

Depends how you define city centre. Victoria is closer than Piccadilly to parts of the main shopping area and if they add stops at Salford Central you have Spinningfields served as well.

 

[WatcherZero]

The Chord works do include a new larger pedestrian footbridge and platform lengthening at Oxford Road (as well as removing the bay platform because the junction prevents the through platforms being lengthened). There is also a commercial development being progressed which may add another station entrance.

 

[hibtastic]

Apologies if this question has been asked before. I am travelling from Stalybridge to Edinburgh this sunday. The reservation shows that I must travel to Manchester Victoria as the service will depart from there and travel via Bolton. Presumably this is because of the Ordsall Chord works and the service will be operated by 185s?

The Glasgow services will continue to operate from Piccadilly I think - will these still be 350s?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It is a pity that Oxford Road does not have escalators. Are there plans for any?

Neither does the new Victoria.
The Oxford Road lifts don't reach P1.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Glasgow services will continue to operate from Piccadilly I think - will these still be 350s?

Yes they will be 350s, but starting from Preston.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP

 

[CAF397]

"Delivered in phases"... = project overrunning?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/transformation-of-train-services-across-the-north

 

[snowball]

"Delivered in phases"... = project overrunning?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/transformation-of-train-services-across-the-north

Sounds like it, but they still seem to be saying that both Manchester-Preston electrification and the Ordsall Chord will be completed by Dec 2017, so maybe they're indirectly admitted slippage on Stalybridge??

Is there another document somwewhere that's the actual plan?? This one is just a press release.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Electrification as reported in Modern Railways.

Ordsall Chord is on time.

 

[snowball]

As is often the case with press releases, it's hard to tell what the news content is supposed to be amid the waffle, spin and re-announcements.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sounds like it, but they still seem to be saying that both Manchester-Preston electrification and the Ordsall Chord will be completed by Dec 2017, so maybe they're indirectly admitted slippage on Stalybridge??
Is there another document somwewhere that's the actual plan?? This one is just a press release.

Looks to me like NR's confirmed plan for the rest of CP5 in the north (though they don't give dates).
But the train service implications are vague to say the least.
Manchester Airport-Newcastle is stated as 2018, not this year as originally promised.
Comments from TPE and Northern but no detail. Nothing whatever on Rail North's site.
At least it says Manchester-Preston electrics by Dec 2017, and Chester-Liverpool is mentioned as part of the wider plan, rather than being treated as a detached orphan.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks to me like NR's confirmed plan for the rest of CP5 in the north (though they don't give dates).
But the train service implications are vague to say the least.
Manchester Airport-Newcastle is stated as 2018, not this year as originally promised.

I thought that Dec 2016 only saw the 4 or 5 per day Man Air to Newcastle extensions, (which are now in the timetable) and the full hourly second Newcastle service would only come later on after the extra stock was delivered in 2017, for the 2018 period? I may have the dates a bit out but I thought it was always planned to be staged introduction?

Just checked the TAAs, and 1st Supplementary is for the services starting this December, for the 2017 year, then 2nd Supplementary provides for the remaining dozen or so additional York - Newcastle extensions from Dec 2017 for the 2018 timetable period, and it is them that bring the Man Air - Newcastle service up to an all day service. The 2nd Supplementary then adds the Newcastle - Edinburgh extensions of the Liverpool services from Dec 2019 for the 2020 timetable year.

 

[Viscount702]

Difficult to work out the facts from the Press release most of which is spin.

A few points.
It seems the Chord will be done by December 2017

They say electric trains Manchester to Preston in December 2017 . This has been doubted by many including me due the lack of progress. I still think the jury is out.
However I think most of us have understood that the power for this has to come from the New sub station at Stalybridge which means they have to wire to there as well but if so why not say so.

The press release implies new services around the Chord from December 2017. Is this just the re-routed TPE services or one from Calder Valley say the Burnley one as well.

Finally two new Depots one in Lancashire(presumably Blackburn) but also one in GM. Where will this be? Will it be Guide Bridge

 

[Altfish]

They say electric trains Manchester to Preston in December 2017 . This has been doubted by many including me due the lack of progress. I still think the jury is out.

There are electric trains from Manchester to Preston now and have been for a few years.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There are electric trains from Manchester to Preston now and have been for a few years.

Agreed 350s routed Preston -Wigan - Chat Moss - Manchester area and MIA. What I think they are trying to do is have "2 bites of the cherry PR spin". They do of course mean Preston- Chorley-Bolton- Manchester. If they do Wigan -Lostock Jct that will of course be yet another route for the electrics- even I could not spin that one though.

 

[Sox]

If I've understood things correctly, the benefit the curve actually brings depends on your approach direction to Manchester.

Ranked as follows:

1. from SW = no benefit
2. from NW = no benefit (you got the Windsor Link in 1988)
3. from SE = some benefit in that you get a direct rail service to more of the Manchester stations and onward to the north-east plus an indirect benefit in that the approach throat to Piccadilly becomes less congested
4. from NE = "jackpot", you get a direct rail service to all Manchester stations, the airport and all points south and east plus the decongestion at Piccadilly

 

[markem41]

The Chord works do include a new larger pedestrian footbridge and platform lengthening at Oxford Road (as well as removing the bay platform because the junction prevents the through platforms being lengthened). There is also a commercial development being progressed which may add another station entrance.

Wouldn't that mean the Lime Street - Oxford Road stoppers using one of the main platforms and effectively blocking it until heading back the way they came?

 

[WatcherZero]

Would probably terminate somewhere else.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If I've understood things correctly, the benefit the curve actually brings depends on your approach direction to Manchester.
Ranked as follows:

1. from SW = no benefit
2. from NW = no benefit (you got the Windsor Link in 1988)
3. from SE = some benefit in that you get a direct rail service to more of the Manchester stations and onward to the north-east plus an indirect benefit in that the approach throat to Piccadilly becomes less congested
4. from NE = "jackpot", you get a direct rail service to all Manchester stations, the airport and all points south and east plus the decongestion at Piccadilly

Manchester Victoria becomes a bigger interchange, and the new services should mean fewer passengers forced through Oxford Road/Piccadilly.
Whether the current passengers think this is a benefit is debateable.
There's still no certainty where the ATW Chester/North Wales service will go.
There will be generally faster journeys Liverpool-Yorkshire.

My worry is the capacity at Victoria and the congestion through all the flat junctions .

 

[Geeves]

Once all the services currently clogging up Victoria get extended out to Rochdale, Stalybridge and elsewhere that should free up some space. I think the Warrington stopper gets extended to the airport but probably it will eventually end at one of the extra platforms at Piccadilly. It will be strange to see a Blackburn train at the Airport!

Had a walk down to the chord site anyway yesterday, pretty much all of the concrete work to take it over Trinity Way is now in place. Also the arches on the water Street Viaduct extension are nearly complete except for the original Water St Bridge which gets replaced with two new bridges carrying the V of the south junction.

 

[Altfish]

If I've understood things correctly, the benefit the curve actually brings depends on your approach direction to Manchester.

Ranked as follows:

1. from SW = no benefit
2. from NW = no benefit (you got the Windsor Link in 1988)
3. from SE = some benefit in that you get a direct rail service to more of the Manchester stations and onward to the north-east plus an indirect benefit in that the approach throat to Piccadilly becomes less congested
4. from NE = "jackpot", you get a direct rail service to all Manchester stations, the airport and all points south and east plus the decongestion at Piccadilly

1. From the SW - the benefit is for some of the Airport to Leeds/Yorkshire/NE trains to avoid having to cross Piccadilly throat and reverse.
2. From NW - agreed, little benefit
3. From the SE - As with (1) some trains will run via Victoria and avoid the throat at Piccadilly and a reversal.
4. From NE - as you say the greatest benefit with direct trains to the Airport from the likes of Bradford, Halifax, Rochdale, etc

 

[Senex]

My worry is the capacity at Victoria and the congestion through all the flat junctions .

The British do love their flat junctions!

But, of course, the timetable is going to run to the minute, 24 hours a day every day of the year, so there will be no problems.

 

[SteveRainhill]

Had a walk down to the chord site anyway yesterday, pretty much all of the concrete work to take it over Trinity Way is now in place. Also the arches on the water Street Viaduct extension are nearly complete except for the original Water St Bridge which gets replaced with two new bridges carrying the V of the south junction.

My impression from the plans is that several of the piers and abutments supporting the Trinity Way bridge can't be built until the road is realigned, either back to its original course or to a new temporary one. Good to hear of progress though.

 

[Bantamzen]

Depends how you define city centre. Victoria is closer than Piccadilly to parts of the main shopping area and if they add stops at Salford Central you have Spinningfields served as well.

I can see most passengers heading into Manchester city centre via Victoria alighting there and walking / using the tram to complete the journey in. The tram / train interface is slightly easier, and more obvious than at Piccadilly, and it's a few minutes walk from Oxford Road to the tram network (assuming of course services don't call at Deansgate). It would be even better if Northern / TPE made an agreement to make onward travel into the city centre via tram for a small charge available as an option. So you could have tickets to Manchester (All Stations) and Manchester (City Centre via tram) for a couple of quid more, certainly something I would use.