Class 387

[swt_passenger]

Phase 1 MML electrification, Bedford to Kettering and Corby, had a 'regulated output' of Dec 2019 (entry into service) as of September this year.

It wasn't mentioned in last week's announcements AFAICS.

 

[GodAtum]

I'm not sure I agree to be honest, the vestibule areas are about the same size so you'd only gain capacity if you could stand double file in the aisles. With the seat spacing and armrests that's not actually very practical - the loathed 'metro style' 357s are a much better optimised unit for that and were an idea I actually supported. As it stands (no pun intended) the use of an 8-car 387 in place of an 8-car 357 simply moves more seated passengers into the same amount of already-busy standing space, so I can see why people are complaining, even though of course more units in service is better and I understand the reasons for it entirely.

Agreed on the vandalism, sometimes I'm embarrassed to use the route for the reprehensible behaviour of its user base. You can't tar them all with the same brush but the area does seem to have more than its fair share of unsociables.

The Maidenhead - Slough route has it's fair share of yobs. I hope the trains will cope.

 

[Mikey C]

Why do people always come out with statements like that, who knows where they are going at this stage the order for replacement trains was only recently signed.

I suppose they could use 379's but their layout is more medium distance so the they would likely need to change the interior for a start, as MK2 Electrostars they are probably not that compatible with 357's anyway so they may as well go for new trains as stated in the Franchise. I guess metro style Aventra's or Desiro City's will be what they are looking for.

The requirement of the franchise is also for 17 new trains so it would mean splitting the 379 fleet.

Only a casual suggestion. but we can't keep ordering new trains every time there's a requirement for extra stock, while the number of surplus EMUs grows, especially with the electrification that might use them gets pushed further and further back.

 

[samuelmorris]

I think now that sufficiently many cascade plans are out in the open, it'd be absolute folly for a route like that to have yet more new stock ordered (doesn't mean it won't happen though, of course). The 379s are a valid suggestion, although timing would be very tight for Dec19. The exact same could probably be said about the 360/1s depending on the requirement for gangway connections between units. The point being made is probably that such speculations are neverending on this forum :P

 

[47802]

Only a casual suggestion. but we can't keep ordering new trains every time there's a requirement for extra stock, while the number of surplus EMUs grows, especially with the electrification that might use them gets pushed further and further back.

I'm not so sure if the financials stack up for new EMU's who to say that more franchise bidders wont take that route, we will see with next franchises due, I've already seen it suggested that whoever wins the SWT franchise will bin the re-tractioned 455's, and everybody expects the west Midlands franchise will take spare 350/360/323 etc. but I wouldn't be surprised to see some new trains.

 

[43096]

I think now that sufficiently many cascade plans are out in the open, it'd be absolute folly for a route like that to have yet more new stock ordered (doesn't mean it won't happen though, of course). The 379s are a valid suggestion, although timing would be very tight for Dec19. The exact same could probably be said about the 360/1s depending on the requirement for gangway connections between units. The point being made is probably that such speculations are neverending on this forum :P

You're making a big assumption that wiring will be complete by December 2019. On the current form of other NR electrification schemes, it will miss that by a distance, not least because GW wiring is critical to a lot of other changes.

Corby wiring throws up a small number of 222s spare, but not enough to replace the EMT HST fleet (which need a solution for 31/12/19), so if anything gets delayed it will be Corby.

 

[87015]

Second set out on c2c next week

 

[samuelmorris]

I assume by that you mean two at once? I was on 387303 (behind 304) today, it was 301/302 earlier in the week. I do quite like the units, but it is a little hard to appreciate them with the overcrowding issues that they themselves have created. I can see why they intend to keep them as a pair of 12-car sets. As 8s they just aren't capacious enough.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Second set out on c2c next week

I thought there were already two sets out? Or do you mean two 8-car sets?

 

[Class377/5]

Saw 387305 + friend (assuming its 306) out today on test at Gatwick.

 

[Devonman2014]

387138 , First of the 2nd batch for GWR being delivered to Bletchley tonight on 7X34 path.

 

[4-COR 3142]

Any test runs likely today?

 

[JonathanH]

The diagram this week was picked out as STP workings:

5B75 0735 Shoeburyness C.S.D. to Thorpe Bay
1G91 0743 Thorpe Bay to London Fenchurch Street
5E10 0857 London Fenchurch Street to East Ham E.M.U.D.

5B85 1721 East Ham E.M.U.D. to London Fenchurch Street
1G92 1743 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness
5S86 1854 Shoeburyness to Shoeburyness C.S.D.

Additional STP workings for next week are

5G61 0539 Shoeburyness C.S.D. to Shoeburyness
2G91 0556 Shoeburyness to London Fenchurch Street
5G26 0710 London Fenchurch Street to Leigh-on-Sea
1G93 0808 Leigh-on-Sea to London Fenchurch Street
5S99 0902 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness C.S.D.

5G78 1545 Shoeburyness C.S.D. to London Fenchurch Street
1G94 1713 London Fenchurch Street to Leigh-on-Sea
1G95 1806 Leigh-on-Sea to London Fenchurch Street
1G96 1902 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness
5S89 2016 Shoeburyness to Shoeburyness C.S.D.

Possibly some driver training runs as well?

Anyway 387302 (country end) and 387301 tonight.

 

[tsr]

The Maidenhead - Slough route has it's fair share of yobs. I hope the trains will cope.

387s and the similar 377/6 and /7 units cope just fine around South, North and West London. Yes, you get the occasional issues, but the designs of these units actually also discourage all sorts of things ranging from rough sleeping to liquid pooling in odd places. Not all the interior components are terribly tough (buttons! Still...) but most things are more than able to cope with the travelling public's misdemeanours.

 

[samuelmorris]

Additional STP workings for next week are

5G61 0539 Shoeburyness C.S.D. to Shoeburyness
2G91 0556 Shoeburyness to London Fenchurch Street
5G26 0710 London Fenchurch Street to Leigh-on-Sea
1G93 0808 Leigh-on-Sea to London Fenchurch Street
5S99 0902 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness C.S.D.

5G78 1545 Shoeburyness C.S.D. to London Fenchurch Street
1G94 1713 London Fenchurch Street to Leigh-on-Sea
1G95 1806 Leigh-on-Sea to London Fenchurch Street
1G96 1902 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness
5S89 2016 Shoeburyness to Shoeburyness C.S.D.

Possibly some driver training runs as well?

Anyway 387302 (country end) and 387301 tonight.

Are they in addition to this week's or instead of? Looking at what in the timetable is STP I'm assuming in addition to - would be nice to try and get all of the units before they disappear onto services I can't normally use.

 

[JonathanH]

Are they in addition to this week's or instead of? Looking at what in the timetable is STP I'm assuming in addition to - would be nice to try and get all of the units before they disappear onto services I can't normally use.

I'm just going off what '87015' wrote and the fact that these STP workings have revised headcodes for next week consistent with those for the diagram that has operated this week - eg 2G91 was 2B61 yesterday, 1G93 was 1B27 etc.

The existing workings seem to keep the revised headcodes they have had this week. Both workings seem to be in adjacent platforms 1 and 2 at Fenchurch Street for a short time in the morning just before 9am.

 

[swt class 450]

The plan is from December run 2x 12 car 387 in peak only. Current introduction period is getting them out and about bedding in prior to full passenger service.

In addition to the previous reply, the actual services were first mentioned in this thread a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2749977&postcount=4060

Out of interest will C2C Guards need additional training to work the 12 coach 387s or are they similar enough to the 357s not to need additional training?

 

[Mordac]

Out of interest will C2C Guards need additional training to work the 12 coach 387s or are they similar enough to the 357s not to need additional training?

What guards?

 

[swt class 450]

What guards?

All 12 coach trains on C2C still have Guards (only 4 coach and 8 coach trains are DOO).

 

[Mordac]

All 12 coach trains on C2C still have Guards (only 4 coach and 8 coach trains are DOO).

Well, just goes to show there's always something you didn't know. I believe sackcloth and ashes are in order.

 

[chris11256]

c2c are moving to 12 carriage DOO very very soon. Was told unions are expected to sign off on it very very soon. As the new timetable has more 12 carriage services than they have guards.

 

[jopsuk]

All 12 coach trains on C2C still have Guards (only 4 coach and 8 coach trains are DOO).

Do they run any 12-car at the weekends, or are they the only operational staff on the network on a Monday-Friday only contract?

 

[jax4154]

Do they run any 12-car at the weekends, or are they the only operational staff on the network on a Monday-Friday only contract?

Hardly run 8 cars at weekends so certainly not ganna run 12's

class 387 will only run with 8 set I would imagine, no point training the "train captains" when their days are numbered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

c2c are moving to 12 carriage DOO very very soon. Was told unions are expected to sign off on it very very soon. As the new timetable has more 12 carriage services than they have guards.

So c2c has less then 10 captains

 

[swt class 450]

Thanks for the info. I am surprised that i havent heard anything from the RMT Union or anyone about C2C planning to get rid of Guards on 12 coach trains. At the moment C2C employ 16 Guards who work the four morning Westbound 12 coach trains and the six evening Eastbound 12 coach trains. 12 coach trains only run on Mondays to Fridays at the moment.

 

[D365]

Do bear in mind that the Class 387s have on-board DOO CCTV, so the need for guards on twelve-car formations is reduced.

 

[chris11256]

C2c originally had 16 guards. However they were told last year of the DOO plans. Was originally meant to go live early this year. A number of guards have since left or accepted other positions. That's why there's been a few cancellations because of having too few guards.


Still need to catch an inservice 387. Hoping the 05:56 runs as a 387 tomorrow.

 

[87015]

C2c originally had 16 guards. However they were told last year of the DOO plans. Was originally meant to go live early this year. A number of guards have since left or accepted other positions. That's why there's been a few cancellations because of having too few guards.


Still need to catch an inservice 387. Hoping the 05:56 runs as a 387 tomorrow.

It probably won't be. Late notice change, now planned for 387s on same trains as last week but as a 12 car. Probably subject to further change!

 

[samuelmorris]

Can confirm, 1G91 was formed of 304/301/302 this morning. What a pleasant change. Seated for almost half the journey and ample standing space for the rest. Reminds me of what c2c used to be like when I first started using it in 2012 The 12-car set caught me by surprise so I only ended up in vehicle 9 this morning, I wonder if I'd have strolled further down I would have got a seat from Upminster. I'm determined to achieve that at some point

Edit: I now notice c2c have tweeted that this service will 'permanently' be 12 carriages. Does that mean that a 12-car 387 is now booked on this service every day, or just that, whichever units are used, there are going to be three of them?

 

[chris11256]

I was told that the 387's are going onto different services once the new timetable starts. Unless its changed it is the 05:56 from Shoeburyness and a leigh starter that I've now forgotten.

 

[samuelmorris]

It was the 0808 from Leigh, but that's the same diagram as the 0556, which the second 387 diagram is already operating as of this week, so no change that I can see? If that is the definitive booking for the new timetable, then no mention (that I can see) has been made regarding the other diagram - assuming they're running 12-car services, two diagrams are presumably going to continue.