Class 387 to GN

[Failed Unit]

For people travelling this evening.

16:53 London Kings Cross to Cambridge due 18:24

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

17:22 London Kings Cross to Cambridge due 18:50

Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8 to Royston. First class is declassified.

Shame the 4 coaches without a driver can't be used to make the 1722 8. Unless they have lost 2 sets and they are already doing this. As for the first class getting declassified - isn't it always now.

 

[Class377/5]

His post was perfectly clear.

I think you're the one who's taken the wrong road.

Yet what I typed is correct. Perhaps move past this petty attack and add to the thread rather than get personal?

 

[philjo]

I arrived at WGC this evening (on a 313 from Potters Bar) to find that the 16:53 from Kings Cross had been cancelld due to a train fault. so had 20 minutes to do some shopping in John Lewis.

I caught the next Cambridge train ( 17:22 from Kings Cross). This was an 8-coach 387.
The announcements are completely loopy (& somewaht amusing) - they are obviously not programmed correctly.
After announcing the stopping pattern for the train it was saying something along the lines of "This train divides at Royston. Coaches East Coast to Cross Country continue to Cambridge. Coaches Grand Central to First Great Western detach and terminate at Royston. Coach 6 of 8. "

As it says this twice before each station and once afterwards it must have repearted this about 6 times between Welwyn Garden City and Stevenage at which point the driver did a manual announcement about the train dividing at Rotston and front 4 going all stations to Cambridge - the auto annoucner als made no mention of the front porton calling at Meldreth Shepreth and Foxton.

The scrolling displays were correctly showing the coach numbers that terminate at Royston so looks like the train company names had been loaded in the wrong file where the numbers should be!

 

[jon0844]

Seems like GTR couldn't organise a PIS up in a brewery!

 

[Failed Unit]

I was on the 1650 London - Peterborough last night. A good run for a 387 to be on. People only standing because they wanted to.

They are unfortunately if you live at potters bar and Hatfield out in large numbers on Saturday now.

One question can the drivers still not dispatch the 387s. The 1650 had a person on the platform dispatching at Welwyn North last night.

 

[bramling]

I was on the 1650 London - Peterborough last night. A good run for a 387 to be on. People only standing because they wanted to.

They are unfortunately if you live at potters bar and Hatfield out in large numbers on Saturday now.

One question can the drivers still not dispatch the 387s. The 1650 had a person on the platform dispatching at Welwyn North last night.

There's been assisting staff at Welwyn North for some time, I think it applies for 8-car trains during hours of darkness. Not sure how the 387 fits in to this as they have a different setup.

On a different note, the 387s ride really badly. Very rough over points. Much worse than both 321s and 365s, and probably worse even than the motor cars on the 317s. With the hard seats (and fixed hard armrest on the window seats) these movements are really felt. Combined with some of the other issues the 387s have brought with them, on balance I'd much prefer to have the 321s back.

 

[Failed Unit]

Never really notice the dispatcher at Welwyn North before. Surprised the number of short formed / cancelled 387 services recently. 0923 wgc - London is a 365 today. Which is nice.

 

[bramling]

Never really notice the dispatcher at Welwyn North before.

It's been there for a while. A (non-railway-interested) friend of mine drew my attention to it, as he asked why on earth a very quiet station like Welwyn North had a member of staff there late in the evening.

 

[D365]

Seems like GTR couldn't organise a PIS up in a brewery!

I haven't seen any different PIS problems on the Great Northern since they took over from FCC.

Combined with some of the other issues the 387s have brought with them, on balance I'd much prefer to have the 321s back.

Don't think that I'll be sharing that same sentiment just yet

 

[jon0844]

I haven't seen any different PIS problems on the Great Northern since they took over from FCC.

The 387s have problems though. Still can't say Great Northern, and for a while said Thameslink, and now totally mad stuff like the above.

The other problems were usually down to the system not being on, faulty or flickering screens (on the 317s), and occasionally reading stations in reverse. I'm surprised the 387s can do this as I assumed newer stock would have better processes and software.

But, no, I spent a journey into King's Cross being told it was for Cambridge and every 'next station' was Finsbury Park. Rather a lot worse than back in the day when Potters Bar was often called Finsbury Park on a 365.

 

[bramling]

The 387s have problems though. Still can't say Great Northern, and for a while said Thameslink, and now totally mad stuff like the above.

The other problems were usually down to the system not being on, faulty or flickering screens (on the 317s), and occasionally reading stations in reverse. I'm surprised the 387s can do this as I assumed newer stock would have better processes and software.

But, no, I spent a journey into King's Cross being told it was for Cambridge and every 'next station' was Finsbury Park. Rather a lot worse than back in the day when Potters Bar was often called Finsbury Park on a 365.

Every 387 I've been on (admittedly not a massive number as I've been trying to avoid them as far as possible!) has had PIS issues of one form or another.

(Just like every 387 I've been on has had irritating rattles, internal doors not working properly and a rough ride!).

Managed to go on a 2x387 formation last night where both first class sections were at the London end. This definitely works better than when they're at the country end, but still not as good as being at the ends like in the 365s. Hopefully at the very least GTR will, at some stage, turn the 387s where needed so that the first class faces London. FCC at least made the effort to do this with the 321s.

 

[crazystripe]

Hopefully at the very least GTR will, at some stage, turn the 387s where needed so that the first class faces London. FCC at least made the effort to do this with the 321s.

Curious to know the route/location where this can be done?

 

[bramling]

Curious to know the route/location where this can be done?

Not on GN.

I think the usual location where units got turned under FCC was to/from Ilford.

Sutton Loop would be a possibility for the 387s?

A good operator would have ensured this was all done and sorted before the units came over, however GTR isn't a good operator, something they have demonstrated over and over.

 

[Class377/5]

Managed to go on a 2x387 formation last night where both first class sections were at the London end. This definitely works better than when they're at the country end, but still not as good as being at the ends like in the 365s. Hopefully at the very least GTR will, at some stage, turn the 387s where needed so that the first class faces London. FCC at least made the effort to do this with the 321s.

Here's some good news for you, yes at some point.

 

[Failed Unit]

Here's some good news for you, yes at some point.

Considering how long it is taking them to get enough drivers to operate the service- shall we place bets on which side of 2018?

 

[Class377/5]

Considering how long it is taking them to get enough drivers to operate the service- shall we place bets on which side of 2018?

Won't be done by GN/GTR drivers (same with most GN moves).

 

[jon0844]

Considering how long it is taking them to get enough drivers to operate the service- shall we place bets on which side of 2018?

I'm thinking franchise change in 2021.

 

[bramling]

Here's some good news for you, yes at some point.

Good - just to clarify, does that mean they will be turned with the F/C at the London end? At the moment I'd say the majority are the other way oriented.

 

[Class377/5]

Good - just to clarify, does that mean they will be turned with the F/C at the London end? At the moment I'd say the majority are the other way oriented.

I **think** its London end IIRC. Glad I could give you some info you like for once.

 

[bramling]

I **think** its London end IIRC. Glad I could give you some info you like for once.

Lol, and just to add I agree with your views expressed in the thread about TfL control over London's suburban rail network.

Let's hope GTR get on with turning the units asap, as it is causing issues at certain locations in the peaks with people not knowing where to stand on the platforms. The London end definitely makes the most sense -- although as expressed elsewhere not as much sense as the class 365 style layout. Hopefully that is a further change which will be made in time.

 

[Skimble19]

Glad to hear they're all going to be turned the same way round, they're a total pain at the moment!

It's been there for a while. A (non-railway-interested) friend of mine drew my attention to it, as he asked why on earth a very quiet station like Welwyn North had a member of staff there late in the evening.

There's Platform staff there from 1600-0800 7 days a week at present, and at least all night long during summer. All to do with dispatch during darkness at quite a large amount of stations (mirrors / lighting issues).. at most places it's now including all formations to help prevent confusion. 387s are considered no different to existing stock when it comes to dispatch.

 

[LdnNiko]

There's Platform staff there from 1600-0800 7 days a week at present, and at least all night long during summer. All to do with dispatch during darkness at quite a large amount of stations (mirrors / lighting issues).. at most places it's now including all formations to help prevent confusion. 387s are considered no different to existing stock when it comes to dispatch.

I have never seen a member of platform staff at Welwyn North after 7pm on a Sunday. In fact, looking at the National Rail website, staffing finishes at just after 2pm on a Saturday and resumes 6.30am on a Monday. From my own observations whenever I've used the station, after-dark most drivers self-dispatch with their head out of the window looking down the length of the train. The staff, one person, remains in the ticket office and does not assist with dispatch.

While I personally think the lighting on either the up or the down side doesn't make it the easiest for the drivers to see what activity is occurring on the platforms, it has obviously been deemed safe enough to be DOO since I were a schoolkid, some 20+ years ago!

I would be intrigued to find out the reasoning behind maintaining a member of station staff.

 

[jon0844]

Glad to hear they're all going to be turned the same way round, they're a total pain at the moment!

No, GTR are going to turn them ALL round.

Think about it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would be intrigued to find out the reasoning behind maintaining a member of station staff.

Hatfield now has many trains dispatched at night on platform 3. Not sure about others.

Now if Network Rail had ever bothered to add cameras to this platform, rather than keep the mirror...

 

[Class377/5]

Now if Network Rail had ever bothered to add cameras to this platform, rather than keep the mirror...

NR prefers going down method of on train cameras. Helps keep delay payments off its back.

 

[jon0844]

NR prefers going down method of on train cameras. Helps keep delay payments off its back.

Well, now it makes sense going forward as the new trains will have cameras - but the platform 3 issue has been a problem for years.

Moving the stop board seemed to solve the problem (even if many drivers refused to use it for a while) but now there's staff. Any idea why drivers had to stop looking out the window (or even getting off?). A problem with lighting at the station or something?

Or just a contractual requirement?

 

[bramling]

Glad to hear they're all going to be turned the same way round, they're a total pain at the moment!

They're a total pain all-round, to be honest.

- Rough ride, made worse by hard seats. Sit in the window seat with the fixed armrest and have your elbow constantly knocking against the hard amrest every time the train goes over a set of points or rough section of track. They ride worse than 365/321, and about on a par with the motor car of a 317 except made worse because the hard seats mean you feel every jolt.

- Reduction in seating availability. What would be a moderately loaded 365 service now feels crowded.

- Seats taken up by luggage racks. On the 365 these are placed at the vehicle ends and thus don't take up seating space. On the 387s the comparable space seems to be taken up with electrical cabinets.

- Seats are hard, uncomfortably shaped and the armrests are too high. Subjective, but I've heard others commenting on how uncomfortable they find the seats, whilst it's common to see people shuffling throughout the journey which is a sign of discomfort.

- No increase in standing room despite reduction in seats. The gangway is about comparable to a 317/321, but worse to pass through because the armrests provide the perfect fixture on which to snag clothing or luggage. Impossible to stand in the gangway without seriously compromising access to seating, not an issue on the 365.

- GPS measurements show speed profile is almost identical to a 365, so no worthwhile performance gain. The benefits of SDO could be matched by extending the platforms at the three stations involved.

- First class is in a sub-optimal location, and offers no enhanced ambience compared to standard class. To make matters worse GTR have managed to have trains facing different ways, so first class is not in the same place from day to day.

- Not yet been on a GN 387 where the PIS has performed properly.

- Various irritating rattles and squeaks frequently audible inside the train, and quite a few gangway doors opening/closing continuously or of their own accord.

For all these negatives, the only improvement is air conditioning. I'd rather suffer on the few days when air conditioning is really beneficial, and have a comfortable train for the rest of the time. Sentiments in local newspapers across the GN area seems to agree with this.

 

[absolutelymilk]

GPS measurements show speed profile is almost identical to a 365, so no worthwhile performance gain.

Are these your GPS measurements? Presumably they won't be performing at their full capabilities until the drivers have got used to them?

 

[bramling]

Are these your GPS measurements? Presumably they won't be performing at their full capabilities until the drivers have got used to them?

Yes. I've been primarily measuring down trains leaving Finsbury Park. My judgement is the trains have been on full power after leaving Finsbury Park on the DF. After downloading the device and putting the profile on the screen, the speed profile was almost identical.

 

[jon0844]

Leaf fall precautions? Had a 365 lose a fair bit between FPK and Potters Bar (with apologies over PA) as it struggled for traction. Maybe drivers are told to take it easy.

I was on a 387 that suffered leaving Hatfield London bound, and there was a noise that I wondered was sand being applied?

 

[philjo]

I was on the 17:20 from WGC this evening (16:53 from Kings Cross). the auto-announcements always omit Ashwell and Morden when announcing the calling stations, though it appears on the scrolling displays and the trains does stop there.