The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.

[Suraggu]

My contract states Christmas Day & Boxing Day are guaranteed days off and if they fall on a rest day I get a day off in lieu, unless my TOC are willing to negotiate a rate that is deemed suitable to my liking I will keep my guaranteed days off on the 25th and 26th December.

At the end of the day websites are doing much better post Christmas sales than the high street in the last few years and what did people do before the internet? I know they jumped into their car or booked a taxi into town for sale shopping.

So technology has moved on so you can shop from your chair but because the railway is running a minute service on Boxing Day the world is coming to an end....

 

[LAX54]

Network Rail has 35.500 employees, (March 2016) of that number 24.000 were working over the Christmas weekend.

 

[Railguy1]

Neither JL or Waitrose open on Boxing Day and have not done for a long time (Except in a few convenience stores in central London where staff have offered to work). The reason? The unique way the Partnership is run means staff across the company would have to vote in favour of opening on Boxing Day.

A contribution about staff power seems relevant in this thread!

John Lewis (London) was indeed opened on Boxing Day and it was absolutely mental. I only needed to return something...

Part of the problem with the increase in demand is that people are enticed by sales. They buy things they probably don't need because for some reason, they think there will never be a sale again. In reality, there is always a sale going on in one form or another...

 

[LowLevel]

Volunteer only is marvellous in theory but doesn't always work in practice. I once took a bus into town for some reason on Christmas Eve or New Years Day or similar on a service provided by volunteer. The afternoon shift decided they didn't want to volunteer after all at about 1400 and that was that, everything cancelled. I couldn't get home as a result and had to pay an extortionate amount for a black cab. Such was life.

As it stands Christmas Day rolling into Boxing Day is the contentious issue - why should we lose both days in terms of our freedom to chill out, drink without concern etc even if we're just working the one when people can choose to pay for a cab if they really have to go out, the driver of said cab will have also made a definite choice to work. Particularly when I signed up to a contract that said I didn't have to.

I personally won't be interested while I still have my family who are spread about the place and manage to gather once a year for Christmas.

 

[Monty]

Network Rail has 35.500 employees, (March 2016) of that number 24.000 were working over the Christmas weekend.

I think that figure should be taken with a large grain of salt, many of those who work overy the Christmas weekend would of been contractors.

 

[steverailer]

I think that figure should be taken with a large grain of salt, many of those who work overy the Christmas weekend would of been contractors.

And many will be the blue hat, shiny PPE, usually in the office brigade just out to claim the christmas working bonus. These are usually the ones picking up on the petty things

 

[Andrew1395]

I spent most of Christmas Day at Northwick Park Hospital AAU with elderly relative. Fully staffed with many I expect on low wages. Genuine good service from people who seemed happy to provide a public service when the ret of the nation was at home. I know nothing of NHS terms and conditions or indeed of those many retailers who were operating on Boxing Day. Automation means I can buy petrol at Tesco on Christmas Day or all night 365 days a year with no staff on site. Airports run everyday of the year which seems to me to be a more relevant comparison with the railway. I am sure that demand for travel exists. And if the public authorities want public transport to operate at Christmas then the providers need to do so. It is only 40 odd years that Boxing Day has been generally train free. My grandfather worked Boxing Day (he retired 20 December 1975). I expect he got added time in lieu and time 1/2 or 3/4. From memory Easter Sunday was double time so maybe that applied. I expect HS2 will be a 365 day a year service when it goes live.

 

[Bellbell]

Surely one big problem is rail replacement on either day if something goes wrong. I can't imagine it being too easy to source, we have enough problems outside the festive season sometimes.

To those who replied to my earlier post about whether youd8put your money where your mouth is, thanks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW, from a personal perspective I would be very unlikely to be willing to work Christmas Day, however, for the right price Boxing Day would certainly be an option.

 

[joke2711]

Merseyrail as mentioned earlier have run a Boxing Day service for the second year in succession.

Whilst I applaud the Operator for doing this, and also appreciate all the staff involved in providing such a service ... I think that greater planning/integration needs to take place to make this work well.

If you take the West Kirby to Liverpool Service on Boxing Day it omits Hoylake, Manor Road, Meols and Moreton before stopping at Leasowe.

West Kirby is served by a 20 minute Boxing Day bus service via Birkenhead to Liverpool operated by Arriva. Moreton has the same level of bus service. Hoylake, Manor Road and Meols have no bus service and yet have no trains.

Hoylake also has the benefit of a free large car park, and the other two stations are within a reasonable walking distance.

If staffing and cost is the prohibitive factor, it would make more sense to leave West Kirby with the regular (and quick) bus service and terminate the trains at Hoylake instead (as per open golf).

The other issue is that if you are travelling from say West Kirby to Hooton, you have to change in Liverpool as Hamilton Square is closed. Do they relax ticketing so that you can travel on a Wirral Saveaway, which isn't valid for travel into Liverpool?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other issue is that if you are travelling from say West Kirby to Hooton, you have to change in Liverpool as Hamilton Square is closed. Do they relax ticketing so that you can travel on a Wirral Saveaway, which isn't valid for travel into Liverpool?

I would very much doubt that the revenue teams were out in any form. But yes, I expect that would be accepted provided you changed at James St and didn't attempt to leave the station.

The semifast services are I think purely done that way to reduce the number of diagrams required - for instance it takes the Ormskirk line service down to 26 minutes from the normal 32.

 

[SAPhil]

When I first moved to St Albans there used to be a (limited) Boxing Day service on Thameslink. This made sense given the two airports that the line serves. It was useful for me as I could get into London should the football team I support be playing at home. Sadly the service was dropped at the time of the blockade and has never been re-instated. Has the "management" ever discuused resuming the service or has it been quietly dropped forever.

 

[II]

I'd certainly consider working on Boxing Day for a decent financial incentive. You'd only need 10-20% of the total establishment at many depots to volunteer to to run a service on key routes of most franchises between say 7am-10pm. I don't think there is any call for a Christmas Day service.

Many employees within the industry need to realise they work in a service industry. If the travelling public want and need a Boxing Day service, then it up to the industry to do its best to provide one, and the DfT to write that into the franchise contract.

 

[Class 170101]

Christmas is for family, not for shopping".

Might be considered a family activity gioven the number of people queuing outside some shops

 

[PeterC]

If the travelling public want and need a Boxing Day service,

But how many of the people who complain would actually travel?

Makes me think of the people who sit at home with cheap supermarket booze complaining about the pub that they never use closing down.

 

[Dave1987]

I'd certainly consider working on Boxing Day for a decent financial incentive. You'd only need 10-20% of the total establishment at many depots to volunteer to to run a service on key routes of most franchises between say 7am-10pm. I don't think there is any call for a Christmas Day service.

Many employees within the industry need to realise they work in a service industry. If the travelling public want and need a Boxing Day service, then it up to the industry to do its best to provide one, and the DfT to write that into the franchise contract.

Well if you want to go down that road then I could say all banks should be open on Sundays and on Boxing Day. You would need far more than 10-20% to run even a basic Sunday service.

 

[Robertj21a]

Well if you want to go down that road then I could say all banks should be open on Sundays and on Boxing Day. You would need far more than 10-20% to run even a basic Sunday service.

You could equally argue that most banks are already open 24/7 every day of the year. They cover the majority of transactions - cash withdrawals -automatically.
Where's the railway equivalent ?

 

[II]

Well if you want to go down that road then I could say all banks should be open on Sundays and on Boxing Day. You would need far more than 10-20% to run even a basic Sunday service.

Not if you stuck to core routes. As Chiltern have found out with being able to run an hourly service between Oxford Parkway and Marylebone for the majority of the day using, I believe, just eight drivers.

To give you an example, the LTV drivers at GWR based at Oxford, Reading and Paddington number some 300 individuals. If 10% volunteered to work then that gives you 30 drivers. If you're looking at an 0700 to 2200 service that's two shifts of 15 drivers, I reckon that would be enough to run DOO fast services between Oxford and Paddington every hour (6-car Turbo), a DOO stopping service between Didcot and Paddington every hour (8-car 387 if the wires are up as planned by next Xmas) and a Bedwyn to Paddington hourly semi-fast service. You could (if you can get some guards to volunteer) then add a Reading to Gatwick hourly service, and maybe chuck in some shuttles on the Thames Valley branches as well. If 20% (60 drivers) were to volunteer then that gives you even more scope, but pay the right money and a 10% target would be quite easily met in my opinion.

Of course, you need engineering work to not be a barrier, so it might be better to wait until the new franchise starts around 2020 when most of the works will be complete.

If it's a success, then you might look at providing some HSS services through to Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth - anywhere else would need wholesale signal box openings so might be too difficult to achieve.

Oh, and my bank was open over Christmas for on-line banking, and cash points were available at branches, which is all that most people would need over the two days.

 

[Dave1987]

You could equally argue that most banks are already open 24/7 every day of the year. They cover the majority of transactions - cash withdrawals -automatically.
Where's the railway equivalent ?

Airport services. How exactly do I pay cash or cheques into my account on a Sunday?

 

[Dave1987]

Not if you stuck to core routes. As Chiltern have found out with being able to run an hourly service between Oxford Parkway and Marylebone for the majority of the day using, I believe, just eight drivers.

To give you an example, the LTV drivers at GWR based at Oxford, Reading and Paddington number some 300 individuals. If 10% volunteered to work then that gives you 30 drivers. If you're looking at an 0700 to 2200 service that's two shifts of 15 drivers, I reckon that would be enough to run DOO fast services between Oxford and Paddington every hour (6-car Turbo), a DOO stopping service between Didcot and Paddington every hour (8-car 387 if the wires are up as planned by next Xmas) and a Bedwyn to Paddington hourly semi-fast service. You could (if you can get some guards to volunteer) then add a Reading to Gatwick hourly service, and maybe chuck in some shuttles on the Thames Valley branches as well. If 20% (60 drivers) were to volunteer then that gives you even more scope, but pay the right money and a 10% target would be quite easily met in my opinion.

Of course, you need engineering work to not be a barrier, so it might be better to wait until the new franchise starts around 2020 when most of the works will be complete.

If it's a success, then you might look at providing some HSS services through to Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth - anywhere else would need wholesale signal box openings so might be too difficult to achieve.

Oh, and my bank was open over Christmas for on-line banking, and cash points were available at branches, which is all that most people would need over the two days.

If I'm not mistake Bicester Village pay a sizeable premium for the Boxing day service. And I believe you are wildly optimistic about the numbers who would willingly volunteer for Boxing Day. The pay would have to be lucrative and that would end up costing the TOC's more than they would get in revenue. Where does is stop? People start demanding a service on Christmas Day are the railways expected to comply with that demand?

 

[AlterEgo]

Airport services. How exactly do I pay cash or cheques into my account on a Sunday?

Many branches now have pay in ATMs which are increasingly found outside.

 

[dviner]

Many branches now have pay in ATMs which are increasingly found outside.

Some banks (well, at least one) have staffed branches open on Sundays.

 

[Robertj21a]

Airport services. How exactly do I pay cash or cheques into my account on a Sunday?

Last time I needed to I paid mine in through the ATM - any time of day or night.

 

[jon0844]

Is the key reason people are against running a voluntary service on Boxing Day because

a) There's a fear it would soon become compulsory working
and
b) There's a fear that it would then apply to Christmas Day
?

Isn't that what a union would negotiate?

 

[miami]

It amuses me the number of "I won't work xmas" people are happy to read the bbc reports, via BT's internet connectivity, using power from the local power station, and just expect all these people to get into work just fine so they can have a day of boozing and posting on a website.

On my facebook feed alone I saw 3 people working xmas day, none of them used trains to get to work of course because apparently the railway is simply a luxury service, and not national infrastructure like roads, airports, communication, electricity and of course the emergency services.

 

[Bellbell]

Last time I needed to I paid mine in through the ATM - any time of day or night.

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning ATMs.

Is the key reason people are against running a voluntary service on Boxing Day because

a) There's a fear it would soon become compulsory working
and
b) There's a fear that it would then apply to Christmas Day
?

Isn't that what a union would negotiate?

For me it's both although I think b is much less likely.

It amuses me the number of "I won't work xmas" people are happy to read the bbc reports, via BT's internet connectivity, using power from the local power station, and just expect all these people to get into work just fine so they can have a day of boozing and posting on a website.

On my facebook feed alone I saw 3 people working xmas day, none of them used trains to get to work of course because apparently the railway is simply a luxury service, and not national infrastructure like roads, airports, communication, electricity and of course the emergency services.

You don't see the difference between the emergency services running and the railways running? The emergency services need to be able to use roads, communication and electricity. As for airports, I've never flown on either Christmas Day or Boxing Day.

 

[Darandio]

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning ATMs.

Because, erm, someone asked a question in the previous post to the one you have quoted?

 

[Dave1987]

Is the key reason people are against running a voluntary service on Boxing Day because

a) There's a fear it would soon become compulsory working
and
b) There's a fear that it would then apply to Christmas Day
?

Isn't that what a union would negotiate?

Yes and Yes. As with another argument that has been raging on here once it becomes the norm it gets expanded and expanded and then is forced. Then we are one step away from full services on Christmas Day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well if you want to go down that road then I could say all banks should be open on Sundays and on Boxing Day.

My bank only closes on Christmas Day, it is open on every other day (and the Internet banking is 24-7). I really don't understand why anyone branch-banks, it is so much less convenient than the other options.

 

[Dave1987]

It amuses me the number of "I won't work xmas" people are happy to read the bbc reports, via BT's internet connectivity, using power from the local power station, and just expect all these people to get into work just fine so they can have a day of boozing and posting on a website.

On my facebook feed alone I saw 3 people working xmas day, none of them used trains to get to work of course because apparently the railway is simply a luxury service, and not national infrastructure like roads, airports, communication, electricity and of course the emergency services.

So why don't we just ditch Christmas all together and make it a normal day where everyone works?