It's called providing a service. Many people don't understand the concept.
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The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.
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It's called providing a service. Many people don't understand the concept.
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Failed Unit
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I am glad the companies running our motorway service stations dont have the same view point.
dk1
Veteran Member
Happens regularly on Virgins 1857, 1900, 1903 & 1907 Friday departures from Euston throughout the year.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I don't know who TOCs can get around it without smoothing the fare difference between peak and off-peak. same before the peak kicks in. Last off peak full and standing first peak carting fresh air around. This is only 1500...
ScouserGirl
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Right ho.. so these railway staff aren't entitled these two days off a year then? ?????? Makes me laugh trains are packed all year round...
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There's no God given right to days off in a service industry, no. Railway staff aren't some special breed.
The argument should always be between demand, and cost of resourcing the service. That balance has swung very close in recent years, in relation to Boxing Day.
It continually fascinates me when railway staff pipe up with "those are guaranteed days off for me!!" So what?
No because they are providing an essential service. Like Doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, care staff etc some staff will have to work.
ScouserGirl
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And also the track need to have work done so when is the best time to do this then Christmas is ideal as you can close the network for two days.. it's either that or do the engineering work when comuters are trying to get to work..
Yes eventually trains will end up running on Boxing Day we all know this.. but for now people can survive for two days without a train..
tsr
Established Member
Certain service stations, generally on motorways, have mandatory 24/7 facilities as part of their conditions of being advertised as such.
OK, that's a bit of a simplification but you get the idea. Pretty sure there are a few sites online which can explain much further.
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ScouserGirl
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You can't really compare train staff to emergency services! We all know Boxing Day trains will run in the near future..
So what?
So, perhaps that's in their contract of employment or a nationally/locally agreed condition.
No trains when you want to travel?
Travel on a different day.
When did 'passengers' gain the God given right to travel as and when it pleases?
I'd suggest better planning is required.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Have you missed that the closures required for the Ordsall Chord and Mersey tunnel works are for weeks not days - they wouldn't make any noticeable progress in 2 days.
So you're saying the drivers should have those two days off but all the maintenance staff should be working those two days?
I'd suggest better planning is required.
Indeed. When the franchises are renewed someone needs to remember to put Boxing day services in there
Like young people who can't afford car insurance. Or elderly people who are no longer allowed to drive.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
It seems that's what they did - no trains on 26th, travel on 27th instead but the railways couldn't cope with the number of passengers wanting to travel on the 27th.
Most football matches were played on the 26th when it wasn't possible to travel to them using public transport. However, Liverpool and Stoke fans were fortunate that their match was scheduled to be played on the 27th - I imagine that helped caused the demand to be too high for the railways to cope.
The Planner
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Nothing to stop any TOC putting Boxing day services in now if they want to do it.
Railway staff get plenty of days off whilst other people are at work. If they don't want to work on bank holidays they shouldn't be doing a job in a service industry - speaks someone who spent 41 years on the railway and worked a fair amount of boxing days.
They also work plenty of days when other people are off. I have no idea how that advances your argument at all.
This is just going round in circles and there's already a thread for debating Boxing Day trains. As things stand, most train crew are guaranteed Christmas Day and Boxing Day off, regardless of whether people think it's justified or not.
dk1
Veteran Member
I have a God given right as my contract says so. Never have & never will work on the 25th or 26th. Oh how I love these conversations. Roll on next years debate 
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Except that the WCML (in particular) always schedules masses of work over Christmas, and there are rarely useable diversion routes.
Even if Virgin wanted to run, there would be no paths, or a succession of buses.
Merseyrail managed quite well again (limited services, main stations only).
We'll end up with local hubs operating some kind of service, but no main lines.
Life will also get simpler as more signalling goes into the ROCs, which will be manned.
So what?
So, perhaps that's in their contract of employment or a nationally/locally agreed condition.
No trains when you want to travel?
Travel on a different day.
When did 'passengers' gain the God given right to travel as and when it pleases?
I'd suggest better planning is required.
Passenger demand has always driven decisions about when trains should run. That's how a service industry works.
The Planner
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I'm not disputing that, what I am saying is that if they want to bid for them or go through the SOAR process they can do, there is no hard and fast rule that says they cannot run. The argument would be over what other days the TOCs would give up for us to do that work we traditionally do.
I have a God given right as my contract says so. Never have & never will work on the 25th or 26th. Oh how I love these conversations. Roll on next years debate
Was about to say. It's contract given, God given is just hyperbole
Was about to say. It's contract given, God given is just hyperbole
Sure, contracts are contracts, and what happens when the Government or company decides it's a good idea for drivers to work Boxing Day? What happened to the (most of the) conductors on Southern who didn't want to become OBSs?
You can chuckle and point at your contracts all you like - I could do the same with my employer - but don't be so naive to think the ground beneath you can't change.
One of the most illuminating things about this area of the forum is the attitude of some staff. I find it a confusing and self-defeating attitude in a time where the railway is undergoing fundamental change and coming under political attack.
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Failed Unit
Established Member
I have a God given right as my contract says so. Never have & never will work on the 25th or 26th. Oh how I love these conversations. Roll on next years debate
I am sure if it remained, GTR employed railway staff excepted they would get enough volunteers to run Boxing Day. You may get staff volunteers who's partners need to work in many of the industries that are open.
I hope that is the case and people are not forced to work it.
I have a God given right as my contract says so. Never have & never will work on the 25th or 26th. Oh how I love these conversations. Roll on next years debate
I'm contracted to work Christmas and Boxing Day. When we did run trains on Boxing Day they were like ghost trains. If there was a real demand or it was financially beneficial then we'd run trains.
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