Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

[dgl]

And what if his investigation into voter fraud finds that the fraudulent votes were fro him?
Will he say that all these dead people would have voted for me anyway so where is the problem.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Trump will hopefully soon realise that America is not the world power it thinks it is and that china rules the world now and that countries can go bankrupt just like his businesses.

Like or not (and clearly you don't) but America is clearly the world power that it thinks it is or else people wouldn't as interested in Donald Trump and his presidency.

 

[EM2]

And what if his investigation into voter fraud finds that the fraudulent votes were fro him?
Will he say that all these dead people would have voted for me anyway so where is the problem.

Trump's chief strategist and Trump's daughter were both registered to vote in two states (there is no suggestion that either of them voted twice).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-the-rolls-in-florida/?utm_term=.9519e34f3fb0

White House chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon was registered to vote in both New York and Florida for several months, even though he sent a letter trying to get himself removed from the rolls in Florida, according to a person familiar with the situation.

Bannon registered to vote in New York on Oct. 14, 2016, and cast an absentee ballot there, according to New York City elections officials. At the time, he was serving as chief executive of now-President Trump's campaign. But he was also registered in Sarasota County, Fla., where he had been on the voter rolls since Aug. 25, officials said.

White House officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

On the day before the Nov. 8 election, Bannon sent a letter to then-Sarasota County Elections Supervisor Kathy Dent, informing her that he had moved to New York and requesting that he be removed from the rolls, according to a person familiar with the letter who shared details about it with The Washington Post.

Since the letter was sent Nov. 7, it is unlikely it would have arrived before Election Day. However, on Wednesday, Sarasota elections officials said they still had no record of receiving it. “None of us recall getting it,” said the current elections supervisor, Ron Turner, who took office in January after previously serving as the agency's chief of staff.

Turner said elections officials are looking into why they did not receive Bannon's letter. In the meantime, after reading news reports noting Bannon's dual registration, Turner said he confirmed with New York officials that Bannon was registered in their jurisdiction and took him off the rolls in Sarasota County as of Wednesday.

Meanwhile, voting registration records show that Trump's youngest daughter, Tiffany, is registered at addresses in Philadelphia and in New York, as Heat Street first reported.

The news of their dual voter registrations comes as Trump calls for “a major investigation” into his unsubstantiated claim that millions of illegal votes were cast in November's elections. Administration officials have yet to provide any evidence of such voter fraud.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer claimed that a study by Pew showed a high rate of voting by noncitizens. In fact, a 2012 Pew Center on the States study identified a different problem: that rolls contained millions of inaccurate voter registrations because of people who moved or had died.

On Wednesday, Trump tweeted that the investigation into “VOTER FRAUD” would include “those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal” and “those registered to vote who are dead (and many for a long time).”

[Trump seeks ‘major investigation’ into unsupported claims of voter fraud]

Bannon's situation shows how easily out-of-date registrations can linger on the books. While elections officials are supposed to inform other states when they register a voter who had been previously registered elsewhere, there is no single unified system to reconcile voter registration records. Twenty states and the District of Columbia participate in the Electronic Registration Information Center (ERIC), a nonprofit organization that helps exchange such information, but Florida is not one of them.

Absent that system, Florida officials rely on other state election offices to call and inform them if they receive a registration from a former Florida voter. “For whatever reason, that did not occur in that case,” Turner said.

One likely reason: New York's voter registration form does not provide a place for voters to identify where they have previously been registered, city officials there confirmed.

Turner said Sarasota County works to maintain and update its rolls once a year, using change of address information provided by the U.S. Postal Service. But sometimes it can take a few years for an out-of-date registration to be flagged, he noted.

“We want to have the most accurate rolls possible, so we do what we can with the information available to use as elections officials,” he said. “The voters need to help us out with that. We do the best we have with the information we have.”

However, Turner said that in his six years at the elections office, he has not seen any evidence that voters have sought to take advantage of being registered in two jurisdictions to cast two ballots. “Not to my knowledge,” he said.

 

[me123]

Actually released by the White House today:

Description - a press release containing a list of approving quotes from the media about the first days of Trumps regime, like you might find promoting a film or stage play.

Kim Jong-Two

This really is quite worryingly North Korean in tone. It really is like he's trying to build a cult of personality around himself.

Some people suggested that the Drumpf administration would be less insane than the campaign. He actually does seem to be delivering on his promises, quite worryingly. The wall will be built (apparently). He's signed an act that "bans muslims" (or rather a more coherent act that bans people from specific countries that are "terror-prone"). Most concerning, however, is the suggestion that he will approve the use of torture by the United States intelligence agencies.

I have spoken with people at the highest level of intelligence and I asked them the question 'Does it work? Does torture work?' and the answer was 'Yes, absolutely'.

BBC news

In the meantime, we're cuddling up to this country. We're sending the first family (admittedly crap) gifts and our PM is meeting with them to "renew the special relationship". Am I the only person offended that we are pursuing a special relationship with a country that looks set to introduce torture as a means of interrogation?

 

[EM2]

Lots of things work. That doesn't mean they should be done.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Like or not (and clearly you don't) but America is clearly the world power that it thinks it is or else people wouldn't as interested in Donald Trump and his presidency.

What is the accumulated debt figure owed to China by America?

 

[me123]

Lots of things work. That doesn't mean they should be done.

I'm not convinced torture even works. If you're waterboarding someone, they'll do whatever it takes to stop the torture. (Video in the link above demonstrates water boarding - cautionary content, of course). And that could mean saying that you are guilty even though you aren't. (In the video, the man confesses to being the Easter Bunny or something).

The Americans might think they get results because the detainees admit guilt and give them information. But if it's obtained during torture, you can't know that it's real information. It could just be that the detainee is saying what you want to hear to stop the torture.

And that's before you consider that waterboarding clearly violates the 8th amendment.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not convinced torture even works. If you're waterboarding someone, they'll do whatever it takes to stop the torture. (Video in the link above demonstrates water boarding - cautionary content, of course). And that could mean saying that you are guilty even though you aren't. (In the video, the man confesses to being the Easter Bunny or something).

The Americans might think they get results because the detainees admit guilt and give them information. But if it's obtained during torture, you can't know that it's real information. It could just be that the detainee is saying what you want to hear to stop the torture.

And that's before you consider that waterboarding clearly violates the 8th amendment.

I bet it does work. You aren't doing this to extract a general confession but to extract specific information which you then cross reference against what you already know with the threat of more of the same or worse (to both you and your family) if you lie.

After 17 days of that, sleep deprivation, disorientation, drugging, threats and a few beatings I bet the information you get out is very useful. I bet everyone tells you the truth by then.

 

[EM2]

It appears that Sean Spicer, Trump's Press Secretary and Communications Director, has posted his password on Twitter. Not once, but twice, within two hours. The tweets have now been deleted, but of course some other users took screenshots.

 

[miami]

I bet it does work.

You and Donald Trump. As he said last year

Okay, folks? Torture -- you know, half these guys [say]: 'Torture doesn't work.' Believe me, it works. Okay

Which implies he has some experience, either being tortured (he's no John McCain), or doing the torturing.

Meanwhile the experts, like John Brennan, who actually have the facts, believe it doesn't work.

Whether it works or doesn't work doesn't examine the wider picture -- how many terrorists does it create etc.

You've then got the real threats to the american people, and terrorism isn't one. Toddlers? Sure, they kill dozens of Americans every year, but terrorists don't (I think it's somewhere in the region of 3 or 4 per year).

 

[DarloRich]

You and Donald Trump. As he said last year



Which implies he has some experience, either being tortured (he's no John McCain), or doing the torturing.

Meanwhile the experts, like John Brennan, who actually have the facts, believe it doesn't work.

Whether it works or doesn't work doesn't examine the wider picture -- how many terrorists does it create etc.

Hang on - where do I say I support it? I simply think that anyone subject to a prolonged period of "alternative integration techniques" will crack and spill what they know.

You've then got the real threats to the american people, and terrorism isn't one. Toddlers? Sure, they kill dozens of Americans every year, but terrorists don't (I think it's somewhere in the region of 3 or 4 per year).

Yet.

 

[me123]

I bet it does work. You aren't doing this to extract a general confession but to extract specific information which you then cross reference against what you already know with the threat of more of the same or worse (to both you and your family) if you lie.

After 17 days of that, sleep deprivation, disorientation, drugging, threats and a few beatings I bet the information you get out is very useful. I bet everyone tells you the truth by then.

There's an excellent (and very balanced) article in the Guardian that covers this quite nicely.

The strongest argument in favour of torture is the so called 'ticking bomb' scenario, re-imagined with the help of John Doe's toasty testicles above. Alan Dershowitz gave a good summary of it in the San Francisco Chronicle back in 2001:

Everybody says they're opposed to torture. But everyone would do it personally if they knew it could save the life of a kidnapped child who had only two hours of oxygen left before death. And it would be the right thing to do.

It's a compelling argument, until you start to look at the assumptions that you have to make to accept it. This argument assumes that you have the right person in custody, it assumes that this person actually has the information you need, it assumes that there isn't a better way of getting hold of the evidence, and above all it assumes that torture is an effective way of getting that information.

One of the interesting features of the torture debate is that many in the military and intelligence communities seem decidedly unconvinced about the effectiveness of torture. Ali Soufan, a former FBI special agent with considerable experience interrogating al-Qaeda operatives, pointed out in Time that:

When they are in pain, people will say anything to get the pain to stop. Most of the time, they will lie, make up anything to make you stop hurting them. That means the information you're getting is useless.

He isn't alone in this assessment – a number of former intelligence people have expressed similar views, and his words are echoed by the US Army Training Manual's section on interrogation, which suggests that:

…the use of force is a poor technique, as it yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say whatever he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.

 

[me123]

The Doomsday Clock has edged closer to midnight thanks to Drumpf.

The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists made the decision based mostly on rhetoric of the current president, stating:

In the 2017 Doomsday Clock Statement, the Bulletin’s Science and Security Board notes that world leaders have failed to come to grips with humanity’s most pressing existential threats: nuclear weapons and climate change. Disturbing comments about the use and proliferation of nuclear weapons made by Donald Trump, as well as the expressed disbelief in the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change by both Trump and several of his cabinet appointees, affected the Board's decision, as did the emergence of strident nationalism worldwide.

The clock is symbolic in nature - it gives an indication of how close we are to a catastrophic global event, based upon current geopolitical events. It is expressed as "minutes to midnight", which is symbolic in nature rather than literal. Obviously Abigail Beall of the Mail doesn't understand this.

With the state of the world as it is, particularly because of the threat of nuclear weapons and climate change, the scientists decided the end of the world is only two and a half minutes away.

The clock has gone back as far as seventeen minutes to midnight. This is the closest to midnight we have been since 1953.

And as you can imagine, the Daily Mail comments section is a right laugh.

Mentally challenged liberal socialists communists!

All due to the nasty, loony leftie politically correct establishment

They should take their clock back to Argos and get a refund, it's obviously defective. What is this anyway, grown up's playing silly computer games and getting all astonished at how clever their blinkered foresight is ???

I see they don't use any technology at this so called "institute". Seriously... card board cut-outs?!

 

[EM2]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nt-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.475952cd97f8

The State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s job running the State Department just got considerably more difficult. The entire senior level of management officials resigned Wednesday, part of an ongoing mass exodus of senior foreign service officers who don’t want to stick around for the Trump era.

Tillerson was actually inside the State Department’s headquarters in Foggy Bottom on Wednesday, taking meetings and getting the lay of the land. I reported Wednesday morning that the Trump team was narrowing its search for his No. 2, and that it was looking to replace the State Department’s long-serving undersecretary for management, Patrick Kennedy. Kennedy, who has been in that job for nine years, was actively involved in the transition and was angling to keep that job under Tillerson, three State Department officials told me.

Then suddenly on Wednesday afternoon, Kennedy and three of his top officials resigned unexpectedly, four State Department officials confirmed. Assistant Secretary of State for Administration Joyce Anne Barr, Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Michele Bond and Ambassador Gentry O. Smith, director of the Office of Foreign Missions, followed him out the door. All are career foreign service officers who have served under both Republican and Democratic administrations.

 

[me123]

I don't blame them. No sane person would want to work under these morons. But without them to keep the morons in check the USA is going to be run by one man sitting on ****ter.

 

[Domh245]

The Mexican President has now cancelled his visit to Washington

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38760671

Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto has cancelled next week's trip to Washington to meet US President Donald Trump.

The no-show comes a day after the new US president unveiled his plan to build a wall along the Mexico-US border.

He also insisted that the US would recoup the costs for the barrier from Mexico, which has strongly objected.

Senate Republicans said the US Congress would move ahead with the plan, and it would cost $12bn (£9.5bn) to $15bn.

Mr Pena Nieto announced that he had called off the 31 January trip after Mr Trump suggested he should do just that.

"The US has a 60 billion dollar trade deficit with Mexico," Mr Trump wrote on Twitter on Thursday morning.

"It has been a one-sided deal from the beginning of Nafta with massive numbers of jobs and companies lost.

"If Mexico is unwilling to pay for the badly needed wall, then it would be better to cancel the upcoming meeting."

 

[miami]

The Mexican President has now cancelled his visit to Washington

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38760671

I don't blame him. You'd have to be desperate to visit the white house now.

I don't blame them. No sane person would want to work under these morons. But without them to keep the morons in check the USA is going to be run by one man sitting on ****ter.

I suspect the hope is the republican party will decide enough is enough and impeach him (there's enough evidence)

 

[Domh245]

I don't blame him. You'd have to be desperate to visit the white house now.

I can't think of any respectable leaders who'd want to go to the white house now, or even do a joint press conference tomorrow.

White House says President Trump will hold a news conference with Theresa May tomorrow

It'll certainly be interesting that one. The woman who says a lot but nothing at all, and the man who says whatever comes into his head.

 

[me123]

I suspect the hope is the republican party will decide enough is enough and impeach him (there's enough evidence)

25th amendment, anyone?

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Controversial, but keeps the republicans in power without the liability of the madman at the helm. However, it has not been tested and would probably require a formal diagnosis of mental ill health (which would be hard, as it would require Drumpf to undergo psychiatric assessment).

 

[miami]

Impeachment or 25th amendment would leave Pence in charge. I was hopeful that trump would be revealed as an act and would actually be better than Pence, at least domestically. Sadly that isn't the case.

I've even seen trump supporters calling for the 2nd amendment option.

 

[miami]

Great, now he's coming to the UK on an official State Visit.

At least they won't need to keep Phillip on a leash.

 

[Busaholic]

Great, now he's coming to the UK on an official State Visit.

I sincerely believe this was one of the main reasons for this supreme narcissist wanting to become President.

 

[dgl]

Great, now he's coming to the UK on an official State Visit.

At least they won't need to keep Phillip on a leash.

I can't explain in words how happy I would be if the Queen met him at whichever airport he flies in to with the works "Hello Mr. Trump, now would you please f off back to America as you are not and never will be welcome here, I know Philip can say the wrong things but you are something else"

Or she invites him to a state dinner at the palace but tells him the wrong date/time and remembers to be somewhere else in the country at the time.

 

[backontrack]

I've updated the thread title to more accurately reflect the content of the thread.

 

[Busaholic]

Or she invites him to a state dinner at the palace but tells him the wrong date/time and remembers to be somewhere else in the country at the time.

I believe the Queen still has a few corgis, which are allowed full rein () of Buck House. I'd like to imagine one of these corgis gets fixated on Trump's leg at this dinner, and Trump spends the entire dinner trying to fend him of(uncharacteristically) unostentatiously. Hump the Trump!!!

 

[backontrack]

I believe the Queen still has a few corgis, which are allowed full rein () of Buck House. I'd like to imagine one of these corgis gets fixated on Trump's leg at this dinner, and Trump spends the entire dinner trying to fend him off (uncharacteristically) unostentatiously. Hump the Trump!!!

Maybe they'd throw it a Trump Steak!

 

[fowler9]

Great, now he's coming to the UK on an official State Visit.

At least they won't need to keep Phillip on a leash.

I predict a riot. Ha ha ha. It will be like a "Who is the biggest mentalist" contest.

 

[GatwickDepress]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38783512
Trump executive order: Refugees detained at US airports

Rights groups have filed a lawsuit in a New York court to demand the release of refugees in transit who have been detained at John F Kennedy airport.
Entry to the US for nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries has been stopped for 90 days by Donald Trump.

The exact implications of his order remain unclear. The US State Department has told the BBC it is working on the immediate implementation of the ban.
People fleeing Syria are banned until further notice.

The two Iraqi refugees detained in New York, one of whom had worked as a US Army interpreter, were in transit when the executive order was signed on Friday.

The National Immigration Law Centre (NILC) told the BBC that it was suing President Trump and the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

It described the two Iraqis as "courageous Haneed Khalid Darweesh, who interpreted for US army & Haider Sameer Alshawi also targeted for aiding US military".

The organisation had been unable to speak to the two men, it said.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is one of several other rights groups also involved in the lawsuit, filed in the Eastern District of New York on Saturday morning.

Lawyers are "keeping tabs on several flights" the NILC told the BBC, but did not have a full number of people who had been detained at US airports.

On Saturday several Iraqi passengers and a Yemeni national were prevented from boarding a flight at Cairo airport bound for New York, despite holding valid visas for the US.

Google has urged travelling staff members who are nationals of the seven countries affect to return to the US as quickly as possible.
Friday's wide-ranging order includes the following measures:

• The suspension of the entire US refugee admissions programme for 120 days
• A ban on all refugees from Syria until "significant changes" are made
  
• A 90-day suspension on anyone arriving from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen, except certain visa categories such as diplomats
  
• Priority for future refugee applications from those persecuted for their religion - but only if the person is part of a minority religion in their home country
  
• A cap of 50,000 refugees in 2017 - less than half of the upper limit under Mr Trump's predecessor, Barack Obama
  

Mr Trump signed the order on Friday, which was International Holocaust Remembrance Day.

The president's statement to mark that occasion, on the 72nd anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, made no mention of Jews or anti-Semitism.

In response to Mr Trump's order, the United Nations refugee agency said the needs of those fleeing conflict had never been greater.

The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) also says it will file a lawsuit.

There have been reports that "green card" holders, who are legal permanent residents of the US, being prevented from getting on flights. However, green cards are not specifically mentioned in the executive order, and so the status of green card holders remains unclear.

CAIR advised non-US citizens, including permanent residents, from the seven countries to plan to delay all international travel for at least 90 days.

Mr Trump said the measures detailed in his executive order would "keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the US".

But rights groups say there is no link between Syrian refugees in the US and terrorism.

Thoughts?

 

[Domh245]

Thoughts?

It's illegal and unconstitutional, but about Par for the course. It's also funny to see that Saudi Arabia and the UAE (who between them provided almost all of the 9/11 attackers) aren't on the list, nor are other countries where Trump has business dealings.

 

[dgl]

It seems that Donald trump will have at least one thing in his presidency that he would have done better at than any other, being corrupt.

What will be next on the list of Donald trumps crazy policies. There are many times when we hate politicians for not sticking to their election promises, in this case there are many times when we want him NOT to keep to his election promises.