Not looking good for Mrs May. Failing to condemn the ban hasn't gone down well. One of her own back bench MPs is technically banned from the US currently and isn't happy about it. She has very publicly shunned the EU and now has to suck up to President Trump who is hated by millions in the US. Not the headlines I imagine she wanted. That's all before the repercussions of Brexit happen and Trump reveals how much a trade deal with the US is gonna cost the UK.
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Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency
- Thread starter backontrack
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It does not matter if not does not get passed.. Trump will see it (a few people have tweeted it to him from what I can see) and you know how he gets when people do things which go against his own decrees. He seems to think he is still running his business where he says something and everyone jumps to it and agreed with the decision.
Would not be surprised to see huge protests against him if/when he does visit the UK. Not something I would imagine the Government will want to see when they are desperate for a trade deal with him post Brexit. Wonder whether they will try and get protests banned by law?
EM2
Established Member
He loves pomp and ceremony, and especially being the centre of attraction. If he thinks he won't get that, it'll really bug him.
Considering he accused the BBC of lying about the smaller number of people at his inauguration, I think he does care.
Plus the White House is making demands about the visit
Plus considering Trump said the papers were entitled to show naked pics of Kate Middleton as
Plus the White House is making demands about the visit
Plus considering Trump said the papers were entitled to show naked pics of Kate Middleton as
I am not sure the younger ones are going to be any nicer to him
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Sad to see the e-petitions process being used for the wrong purpose yet again!
It is for issues which may lead to potential debates in Parliament. As Parliament does not have a say in, nor passes legislation on whether a head of state should visit, you can rest assured your signatures are well wasted. However, I am sure everyone who signed it felt better for a few minutes.
Expect this one to get shunted to the meaningless Westminster Hall (which is NOT part of Parliament, more a debating society), along with the other Trump petition.
It is for issues which may lead to potential debates in Parliament. As Parliament does not have a say in, nor passes legislation on whether a head of state should visit, you can rest assured your signatures are well wasted. However, I am sure everyone who signed it felt better for a few minutes.
Expect this one to get shunted to the meaningless Westminster Hall (which is NOT part of Parliament, more a debating society), along with the other Trump petition.
There is mass anger towards Trump around the world. We have a PM who initially refused to condemn the actions taken by the Trump administration. What other way is there for the average joe bloggs British public to show their anger except by getting ignored by politicians on social media? Epetitions are a great way for British public to actually get those in their ivory towers to listen to voters. That's why there is an amount of signatures needed for them to be even looked at. This is clearly an issue that hundreds of thousands if not millions feel angry about. Why shouldn't it be debated in parliament?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I already explained!
It won't be debated in Parliament because state visits are not within the gift of Parliament to grant, or refuse. Parliament has no power in this matter.
The petition will land on the clerk's desk, and a group of parliamentary clerks decide what the best route for the petition is. As this petition refers to a matter outside Parliament's remit, it is exceptionally unlikely that this will be debated in Parliament.
In any case, Trump is not some despot, dictator or power thief. He is many things, and one of those things is the elected President of the USA. Snubbing him in this was is not in the least bit constructive or friendly. Express your displeasure at his recent moves, yes, but calling for his state visit to be cancelled is purely inhospitable, not to mention, in this case, an empty gesture.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The more that I see postings expressing such sentiments, the more that I am reminded of the 1959 satirical comedy film starring Peter Sellers...."The mouse that roared"...
They had a debate in parliament on Donald Trump before when the petition asked for the UK to ban Donald Trump from entry to the UK if he became president but they made it clear that there would be no vote on whether they would be banning Donald Trump from entering the UK.
Well i can say with a pretty high degree of certainty that if/when Trump visits the UK as president that there will be mass protests against him. Won't look good for a Government who seems very very keen to woo him now they have turned their back on the EU with a "hard Brexit".
The more that I see postings expressing such sentiments, the more that I am reminded of the 1959 satirical comedy film starring Peter Sellers...."The mouse that roared"...
Not looking good for Mrs May! Plastered all over the front pages hand in hand with Trump a day before he announces his most controversial order and causes world outrage. Then she refuses to condemn it, ho hum ho hum!
"Mass" protests involving how many people? And how many will there be not taking part in any such protests? I suspect that the overwhelming majority of the population will be making no protest.
Whether we like it or not, Trump was elected president by due process (whether we like the elelctoral college set-up or not) and he is now doing simply what he told the electorate he would do if elected. We may not like all of it (however good it may be to see the liberal left get their come-uppance), but he is what the US electorate chose.
Indeed he was elected to be US president. That does not mean we have to welcome him to our country. And I very much hate seeing our PM trying to woo him because she has decided if she doesn't get her way with the EU she is going to destroy our trading ties with the EU.
The news that trump has put Steve Bannon (formerly of Brietbart, and who recently told journalists to "keep their mouths shut") on the national security council, replacing the joint chief of staff and director of national intelligence who will now only attend when discussions are related to their areas of expertise, does seem to have slipped under the radar with the whole muslim banning issue.
I read about this earlier, and nothing surprises me anymore.
I really do think Trump is doing all of this to encourage, almost force, action against America that will involve violence. He will hope for something, anything, that can justify further action as part of what seems to be a pretty carefully thought out plan - with things happening so fast, it will be hard to stop.
I can imagine that if we get a terrorist attack, or even just a protestor that takes things too far, he will be able to start on his plans to strike militarily against people, impose censorship on the negative media, and - crikey - internment of those who are now a threat to America.
And he'll have plenty of supporters, who seem totally oblivious to how this is history repeating itself right in front of our eyes.
I only hope that Trump won't actually be able to do all the things he wants to do because there are some differences this time around. For one, rather a lot of people DO know where this is going.
I really do think Trump is doing all of this to encourage, almost force, action against America that will involve violence. He will hope for something, anything, that can justify further action as part of what seems to be a pretty carefully thought out plan - with things happening so fast, it will be hard to stop.
I can imagine that if we get a terrorist attack, or even just a protestor that takes things too far, he will be able to start on his plans to strike militarily against people, impose censorship on the negative media, and - crikey - internment of those who are now a threat to America.
And he'll have plenty of supporters, who seem totally oblivious to how this is history repeating itself right in front of our eyes.
I only hope that Trump won't actually be able to do all the things he wants to do because there are some differences this time around. For one, rather a lot of people DO know where this is going.
It does, again.
It's time for a vote of no confidence in our current government, time for an election. The world is s very different place since this time last year, let alone in 2015.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
As I stated above, "Parliament" did not discuss this matter.
It was debated by MPs in Westminster Hall, which isn't part of Parliament; no laws are made there, and no votes are taken. It may as well have been in the pub.
Trog
Established Member
Or is he being clever, fulfilling an election pledge in a broad brush way. That will be struck down by the courts, so he can say he did what he promised but the nasty liberal judges frustrated him. So his less tolerant supporters are happy, and there is no real long term annoyance to American business.
Just shy of 1 million people so far have signed it. A petition like that is not ignored by Government. It has had the desired effect. Even if Mrs May doesn't withdraw her invitation she made she can be sure that visit will not go down well with a huge amount of the British Public. Ball is in Mrs Mays court now, just how desperate is she for that trade deal. Could define her time as PM.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
The petition has passed 1 million, it was on 12k at 11AM yesterday. That's a pretty fast rates of signing.
Many MPs, including Conservative ones, are unhappy. I can't imagine that the royal family is too thrilled with Mr "Who wouldn't take Kate's picture and make lots of money if she does the nude sunbathing thing. Come on Kate!" coming either.
May is an embarrassment to this country and to her party, cosying up with dictators and madmen. Thatcher will be spinning in her grave, Major and Cameron will be crying into their soup. I hope this petition gives parliament some guts.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
BREAKING: GOVERNMENT IGNORES PETITION.
The petition will have no effect on its own. I am sure May knew very well how unpopular a Trump state visit would be with many people. I agree it may well define her tenure.
Go out and protest, write a letter to your MP, do something. Stand and heckle Trump's car as he drives to Buckingham Palace. Chain yourself to the railings.
Whatever you do, if you feel very strongly about something, don't limit it to signing a petition to Parliament about a matter which Parliament has no jurisdiction.
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Oh good, hopefully they'll ignore the referendum then, as that was a populist gesture.
Meanwhile the news agenda for today is Trump, and the express is confused between it's love for the queen and it's love for Farage/Trump
(Farage being the only political voice defending trump)
Meanwhile the news agenda for today is Trump, and the express is confused between it's love for the queen and it's love for Farage/Trump
(Farage being the only political voice defending trump)
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Link to a non-existent website?
What you haven't mentioned is MPs have said they want to discuss it in parliament with Labour and the SNP both opposing the visit.
Tim R-T-C
Established Member
- Joined
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Isn't democracy a Populist Agenda?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
exactly - the measure of his success for his supporters is different to the measure of success a rational person would use. All these complaints simply feed that.
When the judges strike it down as unconstitutional Trump will simply blame the liberal out of touch elite and see his supporters cheer.
The petition has had a great effect. MPs due to debate the issue. Downing Street sources admitting to journalists that revoking the invitation would undo all the work done during her visit to the White House. In other words the trade deal is far more important than taking a stand on principles and human rights. History is repeating itself. Mrs May knows she has burnt her bridges with the EU so has backed herself into a corner and is relying on Trump, and I'm sure the Trump administration is well aware of that.
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