Station PIS - End of Dot Matrix Displays?

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was at Derby yesterday, and noticed that the individual platform PIS displays on the overbridge were of the colour graphics type, rather than the more normal monochrome dot-matrix type. (pic)
This seems like a significant upgrade. They are high-resolution, legible and attractive, everything the dot-matrix type isn't.
There is even a graphic analogue clock as well as the digital version. No doubt there are many other display variations in the software.
The displays on the platforms themselves, and the summary screens and those on the concourse, are all still dot-matrix.

NR and EMT must have worked together to implement this design.
I wonder if there is a plan to roll them out further?
The worst current displays are the summary ones which just aren't big enough or detailed enough without excessive scrolling.
By the time you have inserted eg "via Birmingham" lines you have only the capability to show a handful of trains.
The very worst are those which scroll over 3 screens (with the third showing only one train...).
And please, NR, find a way to show the operator on the summary screens.
Given that many tickets are now marked "XX ONLY" you should be told what XX is before it comes up on the platform PIS.
It's like showing destinations at an airport without the flight number.

There ARE big screens at some stations, but they appear to be for NR internal use, on a loop covering engineering work, bad weather and security warnings - they are never used for train information.

Anyway, it's a start.
Are these new graphics displays up at any other stations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That looks nice, very readable. Wouldn't surprise me if it was actually cheaper than the LED version, as it'll probably use a row of off the shelf screens and display things across them using technology built into Windows.

Now how about following SNCF and showing the *actual* train formation in a nice little picture with A-F zones on the platform?

 

[takno]

The dot matrix things outside the south-east only started to appear after a fairly long dalliance with switching to plasma and LCD displays under Railtrack. At the time they didn't work at all through a combination of not being readable in any kind of sunlight at all, and most of the time displaying the Blue Screen of Death or having half the screen covered with a big Windows popup.

I think they've started to go back to LCDs selectively now for a few reasons:

- The display technology is *much* better - contrast ratios are massively better in the last 5 years or so, and the displays are cheaper and last longer. It's also easier to combine panels with essentially edgeless connections between them.
- They've got a bit more experience of where they will work and where they won't
- There are better operating system options available - either using a Linux, BSD, or Android, or even using Windows now it is less catastrophically bad at kiosk applications.

These ones (I think they have the same at New Street and Reading as well) are definitely crisper than dot matrix, and although they do appear to just be showing exactly the same information, they could be altered to get more info onto them.

 

[FGW_DID]

This has appeared on the London end of Platform 3 at Didcot, haven't noticed any others as of yet:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This has appeared on the London end of Platform 3 at Didcot, haven't noticed any others as of yet:

I hope it doesn't actually appear upside down as in your pic...

 

[FGW_DID]

I hope it doesn't actually appear upside down as in your pic...

I have no idea why it's done that

 

[louis97]

That looks nice, very readable. Wouldn't surprise me if it was actually cheaper than the LED version, as it'll probably use a row of off the shelf screens and display things across them using technology built into Windows.

No doubt these were picked for that very reason (being cheaper)! They were installed in December and are a franchise commitment.

New screens were also installed on the bridges at Sheffield and Leicester, although these are LED, slightly different types though. Just summary of departures screens at Sheffield and screens which (should) show the calling points of the next 4 trains per platform at Leicester.

Currently however the new screens at Leicester just show the next four departures overall on each screens, so that makes 4 screens all showing the same information on the bridge at Leicester - at the top of the stairs to each platform.

NR and EMT must have worked together to implement this design.
I wonder if there is a plan to roll them out further?
The worst current displays are the summary ones which just aren't big enough or detailed enough without excessive scrolling.
By the time you have inserted eg "via Birmingham" lines you have only the capability to show a handful of trains.

Not that there isn't a solution to that though, many operators seem to manage to use the via function on the CIS correctly and not just specify a note which blocks a line on the summary of departures. This flicks between the destinations and the via point on the same line.

 

[mbreckers]

ScotRail have developed their own version of fancy new PIS (i cant remember the proper name lol) with another company and have rolled them out at some stations (mainly some along the Argyle Line and Ayrshire Coast Line afaik)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/2904036873/1453926106/1500x500

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have no idea why it's done that

Love the little formation diagram - every station should have that, ideally with platform zones shown across the bottom (might as well just be a sticker on the bottom of the PIS unit).

Hope the white LEDs last well - they don't seem to have great longevity generally.

 

[louis97]

Love the little formation diagram - every station should have that, ideally with platform zones shown across the bottom (might as well just be a sticker on the bottom of the PIS unit).

Hope the white LEDs last well - they don't seem to have great longevity generally.

First time I've seen those screens actually showing coach letters in an order that makes sense! That is the trouble with Mark 3 coaches where the coach letter they started as is different to what they are now!

 

[applepie2100]

The screens in use at London Blackfriars (and possibly other TL stations too) appear to be of the TFT/LCD type and are also extremely clear and high quality.

It would be great to see the start of a new generation of these displays which allow the kind of information shown in Continental Europe.

 

[Crossover]

I'm not keen on the Scottish ones. I came across one at, I think, Croy. Was quite sunny and I could t really see anything on it against the sun

 

[Trainfan344]

I know Virgin Trains at Euston have the displays showing the levels of reservations in the coaches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know Virgin Trains at Euston have the displays showing the levels of reservations in the coaches.

VTWC developed it for Euston (LM wouldn't cough up so they don't get it on their trains) and it then spread to VTEC as well.

 

[Mag_seven]

VTWC developed it for Euston (LM wouldn't cough up so they don't get it on their trains) and it then spread to VTEC as well.

Oh for the days of "one railway" again.

 

[Jonfun]

VTWC developed it for Euston (LM wouldn't cough up so they don't get it on their trains) and it then spread to VTEC as well.

LM don't *have* reservations, do they?

 

[jon0844]

Love the little formation diagram - every station should have that, ideally with platform zones shown across the bottom (might as well just be a sticker on the bottom of the PIS unit).

Hope the white LEDs last well - they don't seem to have great longevity generally.

They should last fine these days. Bright enough to be good for many, many years with no significant drop in brightness.

You now have TVs and monitors capable of over 1000 nits (brightness) so most of the problems of old are now very much solved.

I think we could soon see OLED panels, which have the advantage of being extremely thin and also bendable. Clear displays are another thing still to properly take off, but having potential too for everything from customer information to the obvious advertising.

That all said, I do think that old school LED dot matrix displays are still fine for many uses, although I have no idea why we have some stations now with newer, but smaller, displays than was on the same platforms before. Maybe a bit brighter, but much harder to read from a distance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LM don't *have* reservations, do they?

No, but they don't get the arrival time feature either.

 

[JN114]

VTWC developed it for Euston (LM wouldn't cough up so they don't get it on their trains) and it then spread to VTEC as well.

Strictly speaking, VTWC didn't "develop" it - it's been in the ATOS Worldline's (company that makes CIS systems for most TOCs) feature catalogue for a few years now - they're just the first operator to pay for the feature and actually put it into use.

The new screens at Didcot posted above are the 2nd stage in a GWR trial of the same sort of equipment. They're not properly tied in to the system yet, but will be soon.

Now that Virgin have proven the technology with VTWC and VTEC, the other operators are starting to line up to jump on the bandwagon. There are a lot of back-end requirements which many TOCs don't yet have the architecture for. The joined up nature of our railway:roll: has brought about a wide disparity in IT capability and applications across TOCs. That London Midland (or London Overground) don't feature on the boards at Euston in the same way maybe a compatibility issue, rather than monetary. SWT were about 18 months behind the party getting on to Darwin, because they run very different CIS software and hardware to other TOCs.

 

[philthetube]

I hope it doesn't actually appear upside down as in your pic...

Didcot Queensland Australia?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Hope the white LEDs last well - they don't seem to have great longevity generally.

I've noticed that some buses this way now use white LEDs instead of orange ones for the LED matrix for the destination displays so possibly the transport industry as a whole is starting to use them.

Will it be just larger stations that will use the "screen type" ****?

 

[edwin_m]

I have the impression that LED displays are better in places where they could catch direct sunlight. Are any of the various flat screen types used in such places, and if so do they remain legible with sunlight on them?

 

[james2trains]

I believe that Infotec (who make the screens) are retiring the orange LED screens in favour of the newer models (such as those pictured).

This is implied by the 'Last time buy' page on Infotec's website
http://www.infotec.co.uk/2016/Last-Time-Buy

 

[rebmcr]

ScotRail have developed their own version of fancy new PIS (i cant remember the proper name lol) with another company and have rolled them out at some stations (mainly some along the Argyle Line and Ayrshire Coast Line afaik)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/2904036873/1453926106/1500x500

They've used a revised version of the old CRT screens' layout & colour scheme!

 

[xcooler123]

No, but they don't get the arrival time feature either.

As of today London Midland, London Overground and Caledonian Deeper DO have arrival times at each destination

 

[Roast Veg]

This is implied by the 'Last time buy' page on Infotec's website
http://www.infotec.co.uk/2016/Last-Time-Buy

I don't suppose they sell to individuals...

 

[Starmill]

Leeds quite happily displays arrival times for Northern, TransPennine, CrossCountry etc. I haven't checked them all but you get the idea. ScotRail was the first place I saw these, Ardrossan Town got them first I think and it was posted here on the forum. Smaller ones have since appeared here there and everywhere, including some larger ones too. The Thameslink ones with the line scrolling are also very similar.

 

[Pumbaa]

Strictly speaking, VTWC didn't "develop" it - it's been in the ATOS Worldline's (company that makes CIS systems for most TOCs) feature catalogue for a few years now - they're just the first operator to pay for the feature and actually put it into use.



The new screens at Didcot posted above are the 2nd stage in a GWR trial of the same sort of equipment. They're not properly tied in to the system yet, but will be soon.



Now that Virgin have proven the technology with VTWC and VTEC, the other operators are starting to line up to jump on the bandwagon. There are a lot of back-end requirements which many TOCs don't yet have the architecture for. The joined up nature of our railway:roll: has brought about a wide disparity in IT capability and applications across TOCs. That London Midland (or London Overground) don't feature on the boards at Euston in the same way maybe a compatibility issue, rather than monetary. SWT were about 18 months behind the party getting on to Darwin, because they run very different CIS software and hardware to other TOCs.

Strictly speaking - they did.

Nowt to do with Worldline - VWC coughed up for Infotec to rewrite some software to allow the boards to display diagrams. I agree the arrival times were already available for a price.

However, VWC managed to wangle an exclusivity deal that meant they were the only ones who could use the features for a while. It has now expired, hence the sudden rush of other operators using it.

The loading diagram takes data from Genius and Reservations. To answer the specific point about LM at Euston, they won't be able to display loading data as they don't use those systems.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As of today London Midland, London Overground and Caledonian Deeper DO have arrival times at each destination

 

[Strathclyder]

I've noticed that some buses this way now use white LEDs instead of orange ones for the LED matrix for the destination displays so possibly the transport industry as a whole is starting to use them.

*Off-topic*
First Glasgow had their 10 Glasgow Airport Express E200MMCs (67095-67105) fitted with white LEDs, a first for the company.

McGill's have been going down a similar path with their two latest 'off-the-shelf' batches of Citaros for the Clyde Flyer 90x services, with a few 2nd-hand Citaros, a single 'classic' E400 and a batch of ex-Arriva London DAFs/Geminis also being fitted with white LEDs. No idea if either operator will spec it for any of their future bus orders. Certainly looks impressive, either way.
*Off-topic*

I have to say, I quite like the L.C.D P.I.S screens that have been popping up around the Scotrail network. Clear and easy to read and slightly evoctive of the old CRT screens of times' past. Not seen them appear at any of my local stations yet, though.