The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.

[FordFocus]

Aren't there limits? Other drivers on here post here that the TOC won't pay for safety essential systems to be tested and they are forced to take the train out - being unable to cancel the journey

The rulebook is quite clear on what can and can't be taken off a depot. See TW5 of the RSSB rulebook. I'm quite easy at work and will happily fix faults to get the job moving rather than just sit, incur a delay and await a fitter. The problem is when items that have been booked in the repair book for several days, visit the depot and then come out of the depot with exactly the same fault.

I recently booked a unit in for a horn fault, the rulebook been quite clear that once it's in a maintenance depot it cannot come back into service until it's fixed. One tone not working, the other tone very quiet which is a danger to track workers or people using foot crossings. Unit went onto the shed overnight, the next day I was due to take it into service. Saw in the repair book repairs had been deferred until it's next exam (could be 2 weeks away) and refused to take the unit until it's fixed. The problem then is that drivers are been accused of been militant or awkward because the next train was cancelled. Similar to that Tory MP who said that drivers were booking in 377 DOO cameras faults but no fault could be found on the depot...

Not much to do with Boxing Day trains mind you

 

[dk1]

I'm referring specifically to the PA system, which has been asserted by multiple people to be a safety critical feature, but is unable to be checked on many trains as the driver can't be in both the cab and the carriages at the same time.

On the Intercity sets & 170s we prep you put It onto 'test' & listen to it as you walk through. On 153/156 units we always have the cab next to a saloon.

 

[blakey1152]

On the Intercity sets & 170s we prep you put It onto 'test' & listen to it as you walk through. On 153/156 units we always have the cab next to a saloon.

The PA system should be an essential feature. Unless you potentially want a whole bunch of irate passengers!
I recall last year catching my usual delayed train home from Sidcup to Slade Green knowing that the train wasn't going to be stopping at Albany Park or Bexley as Southeastern had helpfully changed the stopping pattern in the Hither Green area due to the delay and the carriage I boarded had no display or PA working on it and it was evident from the very angry passengers when the train sailed through Albany Park and Bexley that because this essential information system wasn't working they had no idea that the train they originally boarded that was stopping at those stations now no longer was!!

 

[FordFocus]

A working PA is a requirement of DOO trains FWIW.

Not sure if the audio and visual PIS systems will be a compulsory requirement to be working in 2020 onwards.

 

[dk1]

A working PA is a requirement of DOO trains FWIW.

Not sure if the audio and visual PIS systems will be a compulsory requirement to be working in 2020 onwards.

Funny thing is that they've gone as far as preventing new trains entering traffic simply because the letter height is a tad too small but once in traffic nobody gives a toss when they don't work

 

[PHILIPE]

What's this got to do with Boxing Day ? As a poster has already hinted this is past it's sell by date now.

 

[dk1]

What's this got to do with Boxing Day ? As a poster has already hinted this is past it's sell by date now.

No idea. Went off on a tangent. Time to lock the thread till November

 

[bramling]

I'm referring specifically to the PA system, which has been asserted by multiple people to be a safety critical feature, but is unable to be checked on many trains as the driver can't be in both the cab and the carriages at the same time.

It's asserted by the *industry* to be a safety-critical feature. It's tested when the train is prepared for service and the train shouldn't be offered for service if defective. If during the course of a day it's reported as being defective, there are ways this can be checked, either using a test mode built into the train, or by arranging for station staff/fitter/another driver to come and listen.

 

[philthetube]

A working PA is a requirement of DOO trains FWIW.

Not sure if the audio and visual PIS systems will be a compulsory requirement to be working in 2020 onwards.

The audio will probably have to be switched off if the visual is not working.

 

[deltic]

TfL Board Papers report that there were 166 departures from Victoria Coach station on Christmas Day - double the number 2 years ago

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No idea. Went off on a tangent. Time to lock the thread till November

Northern is conducting a consultation on the demand for Boxing Day services, with "stakeholders".
It's couched in language which shrieks that they don't want to do it, and if they did Network Rail would close the routes or do more engineering work at other times.
I suspect it will just be on a few short suburban routes at best, maybe as far as Manchester Airport, with nothing remotely inter-regional.
The document is from the wider Dec 2017 service consultation thread here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141473

Northern is reviewing opportunities to operate services on Boxing Day. Traditionally this has not been viable due to the costs of route opening, and in particular the costs of opening multiple signal boxes along a line of route. As Network Rail signalling control becomes more centralised there may be new opportunities.
We would welcome suggestions from Stakeholders together with supporting evidence and justification to inform development of options.

The remarks about opening multiple signal boxes are valid, but there's nothing stopping a service in the Leeds area which is all controlled from York.
By 2018, Manchester Airport-Blackpool will only need Manchester ROC, Manchester Piccadilly and Preston boxes open, which they will be anyway.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern is conducting a consultation on the demand for Boxing Day services, with "stakeholders".
It's couched in language which shrieks that they don't want to do it, and if they did Network Rail would close the routes or do more engineering work at other times.
I suspect it will just be on a few short suburban routes at best, maybe as far as Manchester Airport, with nothing remotely inter-regional.
The document is from the wider Dec 2017 service consultation thread here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141473


The remarks about opening multiple signal boxes are valid, but there's nothing stopping a service in the Leeds area which is all controlled from York.
By 2018, Manchester Airport-Blackpool will only need Manchester ROC, Manchester Piccadilly and Preston boxes open, which they will be anyway.

Unusually Northern have a franchise requirement to introduce Boxing Day services but don't have a list of routes where DfT have stated there should be services. In theory they could be through services which Northern wouldn't operate on any other day e.g. Blackburn to Liverpool or Manchester Airport to Glossop.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Unusually Northern have a franchise requirement to introduce Boxing Day services but don't have a list of routes where DfT have stated there should be services. In theory they could be through services which Northern wouldn't operate on any other day e.g. Blackburn to Liverpool or Manchester Airport to Glossop.

The trouble with those routes (and many others) is the number of manual signal boxes.
Blackburn-Manchester Airport would work, but there are no transpennine routes without manual boxes, nor routes between Manchester and Liverpool.
Nor places like Stockport (though Manchester-Crewe via the Airport would work).

 

[adrock1976]

The trouble with those routes (and many others) is the number of manual signal boxes.
Blackburn-Manchester Airport would work, but there are no transpennine routes without manual boxes, nor routes between Manchester and Liverpool.
Nor places like Stockport (though Manchester-Crewe via the Airport would work).

Regarding Stockport, does Edgeley Junction signalbox (south of Stockport station) still have the traditional levers and/or semaphore signalling, or is that electrical for the colour signals nowadays?

 

[LowLevel]

The Stockport boxes all have lever frames worked traditionally but with colour light signalling.

The actual functions of the boxes themselves are fairly unusual - particularly Edgeley Junction number 1 which works track circuit block signalling to Hazel Grove and Manchester South SCC as well as to Northenden Junction on the Northwich line (up and down Liverpool for historic reasons), while controlling Woodsmoor CCTV crossing. It works absolute block with instruments to Edgeley Junction no 2 not only on the up and down fast and slow mainlines, but also on the Northwich line - but doesn't control the junction with the mainline which is controlled by Edgeley No2.

The boxes work absolute block to each other within the Stockport area, Stockport No2 controlling access to the carriage sidings as well, with a total of 7 through lines between No1 and 2 boxes - the up main loop (platform 0), up slow (platform 1), up fast (platform 2), down fast (platform 3), down slow (platform 4), down main and down goods.

Heaton Norris Junction at the far end then works absolute block to Stockport 2, track circuit block to Denton Junction and Manchester Piccadilly.

A fascinating area and survivors for those with an interest in signalling. For some pictures etc see here:

http://photos.signalling.org/index?/category/530-stockport_no_2