The Curse of the Flying Scotsman

[PUFFINGBILLY]

As a volunteer on a heritage railway the prospect of a planned visit by the Flying Scotsman fills me not with joy but dread.
Already all volunteers & staff are being swamped with endless emails, letters, notes & memos about crowd control, extra parking, lost kids, manning of every square inch of platform & every coach, health & safety issues but most all warnings about being deluged with parasite photographers. Local landowners & farmers are having to be warned that their land may well be trespassed on by the freebie mob. In fact the entire organisation has gone into panic mode. Sure there will be extra income but at what cost to the convenience of locals.
Given that when riding a service I note that most passengers have no interest on what's hauling the train, but are content to eat their own food & enjoy the view.
Given Tornado, The Flying Scotsman & now another replica green engine on its way have steam engine lovers become blinkered to the commercial appeal of trying to relive history?

 

[sprinterguy]

The East Lancashire Railway recorded it's highest ever number of visitors; a 25% increase; during 2016 as a result of the Flying Scotsman being resident on the line for a period. I believe that the NYMR also had a very successful season as a result of Scotsman's visit during the year.

Despite additional security concerns regarding "Flying Scotsman" to date it would appear that the boons of the loco attending a particular preserved line far outweigh the perceived issues.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I think there has to be a balancing act. All the things you state are issues but the potential benefits to the individual preserved railway both short and medium term, financial and in general publicity and awareness cannot be overlooked.

Whatever ones views there can be no denying that the Flying Scotsman as a loco captures the appeal of the general public who might not otherwise ever consider visiting that preserved railway or looking at trains. That can only be a good thing.

There will always be freeloaders, even at non high profile events such as an ordinary steam gala there are freeloaders who will moan about having to buy a platform ticket or who do nothing but stand in fields or roads all day taking pictures.

 

[alastair]

As a volunteer on a heritage railway the prospect of a planned visit by the Flying Scotsman fills me not with joy but dread.
Already all volunteers & staff are being swamped with endless emails, letters, notes & memos about crowd control, extra parking, lost kids, manning of every square inch of platform & every coach, health & safety issues but most all warnings about being deluged with parasite photographers. Local landowners & farmers are having to be warned that their land may well be trespassed on by the freebie mob. In fact the entire organisation has gone into panic mode. Sure there will be extra income but at what cost to the convenience of locals.
Given that when riding a service I note that most passengers have no interest on what's hauling the train, but are content to eat their own food & enjoy the view.
Given Tornado, The Flying Scotsman & now another replica green engine on its way have steam engine lovers become blinkered to the commercial appeal of trying to relive history?

No. I don't believe so. I can't really see why the "convenience of locals" is paramount for what, a few days in a whole year?

The fact is that FC will bring in valuable revenue,hopefully in spades, to your line. That will be to the long-term benefit of the whole enterprise and will promote and enable things you do care about.

 

[AndrewE]

To my mind the curse of the Flying Scotsman is that everyone under the age of about 50 (including most "reporters" and other media types) seems to think that all steam trains should be pulled by pale green things built in Yorkshire!

I can't understand the hysteria generated by Doncaster products...
A

 

[Mag_seven]

I can't understand the hysteria generated by Doncaster products...

I can't understand the hysteria generated by steam period. I grew up with diesels and electrics - they are my "steam"

 

[AndrewE]

I can't understand the hysteria generated by steam period. I grew up with diesels and electrics - they are my "steam"

You are right, I love it when I hear heritage traction a mile or two away on DRS or track-recording trains. I might even go to a Diesel gala one day! I wonder if people will ever get sentimental over the sound of a class 66?
A

 

[sprinterguy]

I wonder if people will ever get sentimental over the sound of a class 66?
A

Undoubtedly. Though it's unlikely to be me personally.

 

[sprinterguy]

I can't understand the hysteria generated by Doncaster products...
A

No doubt it's from a similar source to that generated within other factions by copper capped Swindon products. Geographical relevance, competitive mechanical efficiency, operational achievement and aesthetic appeal, to name a few: Partisanship and nostalgia, essentially!

 

[Bevan Price]

You are right, I love it when I hear heritage traction a mile or two away on DRS or track-recording trains. I might even go to a Diesel gala one day! I wonder if people will ever get sentimental over the sound of a class 66?
A

Well - as there are people hope to preserve a few Pacers, I expect that some 66s will become even more popular targets for preservation.

.

 

[yorksrob]

Well - as there are people hope to preserve a few Pacers, I expect that some 66s will become even more popular targets for preservation.

.

I'd love to see a 3 carriage 144 preserved. Spent so much time on them now !

 

[Cowley]

I'd love to see a 3 carriage 144 preserved. Spent so much time on them now !

What livery would you go for Rob?

 

[sprinterguy]

I'd love to see a 3 carriage 144 preserved. Spent so much time on them now !

The original Provincial-era WYPTE livery was quite bright and cheery, and it'd be nice to see a set with one of the very limited number of Pacer centre cars preserved.

 

[yorksrob]

What livery would you go for Rob?

I'm not sure. I'm quite fond of the purple Northern interior, so I guess the purple Northern livery

 

[Cowley]

The original Provincial-era WYPTE livery was quite bright and cheery, and it'd be nice to see a set with one of the very limited number of Pacer centre cars preserved.

I quite liked the WYPTE colours too, I think that was the maroon and cream scheme?

Hang on, this was meant to be about Flying Scotsman.
I'll go for a 144 in apple green with two tenders then...

 

[DarloRich]

As a volunteer on a heritage railway the prospect of a planned visit by the Flying Scotsman fills me not with joy but dread.
Already all volunteers & staff are being swamped with endless emails, letters, notes & memos about crowd control, extra parking, lost kids, manning of every square inch of platform & every coach, health & safety issues but most all warnings about being deluged with parasite photographers. Local landowners & farmers are having to be warned that their land may well be trespassed on by the freebie mob. In fact the entire organisation has gone into panic mode. Sure there will be extra income but at what cost to the convenience of locals.
Given that when riding a service I note that most passengers have no interest on what's hauling the train, but are content to eat their own food & enjoy the view.
Given Tornado, The Flying Scotsman & now another replica green engine on its way have steam engine lovers become blinkered to the commercial appeal of trying to relive history?

The bonus from such a visit should be obvious:

• increased revenue
• return visits by passengers
• free publicity ( it will be covered by the media)
• massive goodwill

Anyone would think you wanted your line private and just for the "in crowd" instead of a viable public attraction :roll:

No doubt it's from a similar source to that generated within other factions by copper capped Swindon products. Geographical relevance, competitive mechanical efficiency, operational achievement and aesthetic appeal, to name a few: Partisanship and nostalgia, essentially!

lets be honest - things built in Darlington or Doncaster are just better.

 

[AnthonyRail]

Whats the other green loco? B1 Mayflower?

 

[zn1]

flying scotsman the cursed loco - more owners than a dodgy arthur daley ford Escort,
the money spent on it it needs to be earning money, dragging coaches or wagons and stay hot every day to justify the high cost of the overhaul,

to be honest if it was earning its keep doing any work possible id be a bit happier

since it wont it would have been better given a cosmetic and left in york next to ellerman lines.

there were far better candidates for resteaming and rebuild than that Green Thing..

 

[yorksrob]

I quite liked the WYPTE colours too, I think that was the maroon and cream scheme?

Hang on, this was meant to be about Flying Scotsman.
I'll go for a 144 in apple green with two tenders then...

Yes, the 308's looked good in maroon and cream as well. How about Scotsman in Maroon with a cream stripe around the middle ?

 

[The Lad]

Think of it as 9 busy days that will raise enough dosh to let you play the rest of the year.
Both the NYMR and ELR have managed to do it with no major problems, thanks to the advance planning.

 

[trash80]

I like the Pacers in original provincial blue.

But returning to FS, it is the icon of British railways whether you like it or not and brings in interest from outside the usual enthusiast groups. I just hope that some of the kids who get excited seeing FS go on to become the next generation of railway enthusiasts because we need them...

 

[theblackwatch]

The bonus from such a visit should be obvious:

• increased revenue
• return visits by passengers
• free publicity ( it will be covered by the media)
• massive goodwill

Absolutely. I know one railway has made £££ from the loco's appearance there, and some of the money made is being used to help provide improved maintenance facilities which will be a major benefit for the resident locos as well as the volunteers. Railways have to put a commercial hat on, same with Thonas and Santa Specials - they make the money which provides finance for the line to achieve its charitable objectives.

 

[37038]

NYMR made quarter of a million out of it. That speaks volumes in itself.

Comments about other locos being more deserving. Yes perhaps they were all easier to do and yes scotsman had a lot spent on it and the initial stages of the overhaul were badly managed.

Nothing else is Flying Scotsman and nothing else will have the same magnitude of fame as it. Any money spent will be earned back easily and creates a tidal wave or economic bonuses for any place it visits. Certainly more than any of the other steam or diesel locomotives owned by the NRM.

And before anyone starts on that topic, the NRM do spend a lot of money (small proportion compared to 60103) on their diesels

 

[trainmania100]

Annoying thing about the Flying Scotsman is its hard to get a shot without other people in

 

[D1009]

Whats the other green loco? B1 Mayflower?

If you are referring to the OP, as he mentioned "replica" I presume he is referring to this project.

https://www.p2steam.com/

 

[pdeaves]

Annoying thing about the Flying Scotsman is its hard to get a shot without other people in

What's wrong with that? Wasn't it originally built for people (to move them around)?

 

[John Luxton]

My very first railtour as a 9 year old was behind FLYING SCOTSMAN in October 1968 on The Moorlands Railtour Liverpool to the S&C and back.

Perhaps you would have expected it to make a lasting impression on me but it didn't. I have never understood the enthusiasm FLYING SCOTSMAN has generated. I couldn't even motivate myself to go and see it let alone travel behind it. It's success has been due to media hype nothing else. Where I live on Merseyside the local press gets everyone hyped up when a Cunard vessel turns up on the River Mersey. However, it is media hype that causes this phenomenon. There are many more interesting ships that arrive on the Mersey than the Cunard branded Carnival Coproation ships but because the local media / council hype them thousands turn up at the Pier Head.

When it comes to railway locos my favourite behind whom I travelled in the 1970s was 6000 KING GEORGE V this is the loco that deserves the adulation not only is it a fantastic loco, perfectly proportioned, the right colour but it also broke the steam ban.

John

 

[John Luxton]

My very first railtour as a 9 year old was behind FLYING SCOTSMAN in October 1968 on The Moorlands Railtour Liverpool to the S&C and back.

Perhaps you would have expected it to make a lasting impression on me but it didn't. I have never understood the enthusiasm FLYING SCOTSMAN has generated. I couldn't even motivate myself to go and see it let alone travel behind it. It's success has been due to media hype nothing else. Where I live on Merseyside the local press gets everyone hyped up when a Cunard vessel turns up on the River Mersey. However, it is media hype that causes this phenomenon. There are many more interesting ships that arrive on the Mersey than the Cunard branded Carnival Coproation ships but because the local media / council hype them thousands turn up at the Pier Head.

When it comes to railway locos my favourite behind whom I travelled in the 1970s was 6000 KING GEORGE V this is the loco that deserves the adulation not only is it a fantastic loco, perfectly proportioned, the right colour but it also broke the steam ban.

John

 

[70014IronDuke]

My very first railtour as a 9 year old was behind FLYING SCOTSMAN in October 1968 on The Moorlands Railtour Liverpool to the S&C and back.

Perhaps you would have expected it to make a lasting impression on me but it didn't. I have never understood the enthusiasm FLYING SCOTSMAN has generated. I couldn't even motivate myself to go and see it let alone travel behind it. It's success has been due to media hype nothing else.

Except that is, arguably, factually incorrect (and I do use the word 'factually' with some thought).

This locomotive was the first to be authenticated to reach 100mph. You could argue that that is a random number, no more and no less important than 99 mph or 101 mph - but the fact is that a lot of people think the first to three figures is or was important. They do care. (Just as an awful lot of GWR fans would just love to have better evidence that City of Truro had reached that speed on its famous run, years earlier.)

Certainly - if the media reported that run at the time (anyone know?) - the headline writers would have been far more thrilled to write "100 mph" as opposed to "99 mph" - however miniscule and - effectively unimportant the difference may have been to 99.9% of readers. Still, if it is 100 mph, the readers want to know it.

Of course, you could argue that there is probably very, very little of the metal and other material left today of the original locomotive. But the crowds lining the railway stations are not interested in that.

Flying Scotsman [the locomotive] was helped along by the fame of the train it was named after (Does anyone think that "Blink Bonny" or "Spearmint" or "Gay Crusader" would have achieved the same cachet?) and the fact that it was one of the early locos to be preserved and kept working on BR. Yes, to some extent, fame brings fame.

When it comes to railway locos my favourite behind whom I travelled in the 1970s was 6000 KING GEORGE V this is the loco that deserves the adulation not only is it a fantastic loco, perfectly proportioned, the right colour but it also broke the steam ban.
John

It is a perfectly proportioned locomotve in your eyes. Fine. But once again, you are arguably factually incorrect on the other point you raise. Because (lo, what a bad choice you have made to argue about here !) - to the best of my knowledge, Flying Scotsman was exempted from the steam ban imposed by BR in 1968. This was because of the contract signed with BR when Alan Peglar bought the locomotive.

So, surely, that makes the LNER pacific even more of an iconic loco? (own petard, hoisted, etc)

You are free to be unimpressed by 4472 and inspired by 6000. (Both tick the box for me, but it also so happens I think the final form of the A3 one of the most handsome steam locomotives in the world - with German deflectors adding something extra still!)

But do you think the editor of a local paper/TV station should ignore the visit of the locomotive to his/her patch? Even if said editor thinks like you on a personal level, the readers/viewers/audience will be interested, and that means its his/her professional duty to report on it.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

"Because to the best of my knowledge, Flying Scotsman was exempted from the steam ban imposed by BR in 1968. This was because of the contract signed with BR when Alan Peglar bought the locomotive."

This is correct.