Concerns over Heathrow Express

[Clip]

This is a bafflingly stupid thread. As I understand it, a couple of posters are unhappy that HEx - a private company - doesn't tell prospective customers about its competitors. Wow, bombshell guys. You got 'em.

Welcome to the world of business.

HEx isn't a TOC and is a wholly private operation. It doesn't have to behave like TOCs do, and behaves more like British Airways, who won't tell you that Virgin are an alternative when you go to buy your ticket.

You are wasting your time - this has been pointed out more times than actually shows and they still think its a scam and also one poster thinks that the ASA should be involved even though they are sales people selling 1 product.

As for the claims from swt class 450 that there is no signs for tube/bus/taxi then I dont think they have been there as much as they claim to have been.

Especially with them not being 'Blue' anymore

 

[AndyW33]

London Underground isn't a train service.

Today, arguably so, since the service to Heathrow is badly disrupted by signal failures.
Normally, I think you'd have difficulty convincing 95% plus of the population of this, due to the Piccadilly line being operated by, wait for it, trains. Specialised trains, yes, but still trains.
If you mean that London Underground isn't physically part of the national rail network and its trains don't interwork that's correct as far as the Piccadilly line is concerned, but what about the Bakerloo or District?
If you mean that London Underground isn't a franchised TOC, that's true, but then neither is Heathrow Express.
And I've certainly travelled to/from Heathrow Airport using the Piccadilly Line on National Rail tickets.

 

[zoneking]

The Piccadilly line to Heathrow is no longer fit for purpose. Firstly, all travel within Heathrow, up to Hatton Cross should be free, just like the buses and HeX, HeC. Secondly, the trains are not frequent enough. Thirdly, they are far too slow and frequently wait 5 minutes at various stations to 'regulate the service'. I can't wait for crossrail.

 

[Kite159]

The Piccadilly line to Heathrow is no longer fit for purpose. Firstly, all travel within Heathrow, up to Hatton Cross should be free, just like the buses and HeX, HeC. Secondly, the trains are not frequent enough. Thirdly, they are far too slow and frequently wait 5 minutes at various stations to 'regulate the service'. I can't wait for crossrail.

Travel within the Heathrow Free travel area is free for the Piccadilly line, if you enter say Terminal 4 and exit at Terminals 2&3 or Terminal 5 you won't get charged if you use an Oyster/Contactless card. Similar you can change at Hatton Cross as long as you don't exit the station you shouldn't get charged.

Piccadilly line is only every 10 minutes to Terminal 5, every 10 minutes to Terminal 4, and they can wait at terminal 4 for a good few minutes before continuing around the loop to T2/3

 

[berneyarms]

Travel within the Heathrow Free travel area is free for the Piccadilly line, if you enter say Terminal 4 and exit at Terminals 2&3 or Terminal 5 you won't get charged if you use an Oyster/Contactless card. Similar you can change at Hatton Cross as long as you don't exit the station you shouldn't get charged.

Piccadilly line is only every 10 minutes to Terminal 5, every 10 minutes to Terminal 4, and they can wait at terminal 4 for a good few minutes before continuing around the loop to T2/3

The previous poster is making the point that exiting at Hatton Cross should be free as well for travel from Heathrow, given that is already the case on the bus routes.

Anyhow that's not really anything to do with HEx.

 

[AlterEgo]

The Piccadilly line to Heathrow is no longer fit for purpose. Firstly, all travel within Heathrow, up to Hatton Cross should be free

It already is!

 

[berneyarms]

It already is!

It isn't - if you leave Hatton Cross having boarded at Heathrow you will be charged - it can only be used to transfer to T4.

Yet you can travel to Hatton Cross from anywhere in Heathrow for free on TfL bus routes.

 

[swt class 450]

Surely Heathrow Airport still have a duty to properly advertise all of the services that serve their Airport whether or not they operate them. It is an absolute disgrace that such a huge major International Airport (the largest in the UK and possibly one of the largest in the world) so poorly advertises all of their other cheaper options and continues to mislead and scam passengers.

The thing is Heathrow Connect is not really a competitor. Unlike the Piccadilly Line it is still owned and run by Heathrow Express (especially as between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Airport First Group have nothing to do with it). So they don't really have an excuse to not advertise it properly.

If Heathrow Airport want a third runway and a sixth terminal then they really need to improve their public transport and promote and advertise their cheaper Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line options so that people don't continue to get misled and scammed in to using the Heathrow Express services. I really hope that when Crossrail starts it gets properly promoted and not hidden like the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line currently are.

I agree that the London Underground should be free to enter and exit at Hatton Cross station (especially as the local buses are). I personally think that they should also allow anyone to travel for free around Heathrow Airport (not just contactless card and oyster card holders). They could do this by either removing the ticket barriers (as Heathrow Airport is not exactly somewhere where you are going to get high amounts of fare evasion) or by simply allowing passengers through who say they are just travelling around the Airport stations.

 

[3141]

The Piccadilly line to Heathrow is no longer fit for purpose. Firstly, all travel within Heathrow, up to Hatton Cross should be free, just like the buses and HeX, HeC. Secondly, the trains are not frequent enough. Thirdly, they are far too slow and frequently wait 5 minutes at various stations to 'regulate the service'. I can't wait for crossrail.

People often say something is "not fit for purpose", but frequently it means no more than it doesn't suit them. No doubt there are many people who prefer one of the other routes from Central London, on the grounds of speed or the better chance of getting a seat, but many others will use it for its relative cheapness. If you aren't starting from central London there are many places from which using the Piccadilly Line is much more convenient than going to Paddington or to one of the stations Heathrow Connect calls at. And a frequency of 10 minutes is better than either of the other rail services. I think it's perfectly fit for its purpose, which is to provide one of the three rail routes in Heathrow.

 

[ian959]

Surely Heathrow Airport still have a duty to properly advertise all of the services that serve their Airport whether or not they operate them. It is an absolute disgrace that such a huge major International Airport (the largest in the UK and possibly one of the largest in the world) so poorly advertises all of their other cheaper options and continues to mislead and scam passengers.

The thing is Heathrow Connect is not really a competitor. Unlike the Piccadilly Line it is still owned and run by Heathrow Express (especially as between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Airport First Group have nothing to do with it). So they don't really have an excuse to not advertise it properly.

If Heathrow Airport want a third runway and a sixth terminal then they really need to improve their public transport and promote and advertise their cheaper Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line options so that people don't continue to get misled and scammed in to using the Heathrow Express services. I really hope that when Crossrail starts it gets properly promoted and not hidden like the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line currently are.

I agree that the London Underground should be free to enter and exit at Hatton Cross station (especially as the local buses are). I personally think that they should also allow anyone to travel for free around Heathrow Airport (not just contactless card and oyster card holders). They could do this by either removing the ticket barriers (as Heathrow Airport is not exactly somewhere where you are going to get high amounts of fare evasion) or by simply allowing passengers through who say they are just travelling around the Airport stations.

You probably should stop digging the hole that you are in.

Heathrow Airport DOES advertise all the ways to get to/from the airport on their website.

http://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions

Most of what you have said in your various posts indicates that your opinion/experiences are NOT in accordance with the reality of most travellers. After 20 hours plus from Perth to Heathrow, I can give you the big tip - most passengers will want the quickest way to central London and right now that is Heathrow Express. Yes it costs more but having spend £1000 to fly to London, do you really think most people give a tinker's cuss about paying £30 to get to London on a nice, comfortable, air conditioned train?

I once made the mistake of using the Underground from Heathrow - that is not even a realistic option unless you happen to be needing to go to one of the intermediate stations.

Most travelers I know THOROUGHLY research their destination prior to departure and have made their choice long before they arrive in London.

 

[AlterEgo]

Surely Heathrow Airport still have a duty to properly advertise all of the services that serve their Airport whether or not they operate them.

They don't really; Heathrow Airport is a private company and can advertise its own private railway link if it prefers to. Even so, they do advertise the existence of all the competitors: http://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions

It is an absolute disgrace that such a huge major International Airport (the largest in the UK and possibly one of the largest in the world) so poorly advertises all of their other cheaper options and continues to mislead and scam passengers.

Nonsense. How many international airports have you visited overseas?

How many flights have you taken?

If Heathrow Airport want a third runway and a sixth terminal then they really need to improve their public transport and promote and advertise their cheaper Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line options so that people don't continue to get misled and scammed in to using the Heathrow Express services. I really hope that when Crossrail starts it gets properly promoted and not hidden like the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line currently are.

Yeah, we get it. You don't like the HEx because it's expensive.

You're right. It is expensive. I use it around 50% of the time, depending on a number of factors. If I have a long haul business or first class flight to catch (or have just got off one) then I don't want to be arriving dishevelled on the Tube.

Heathrow has excellent transport links. There are buses, taxis, a direct link to a motorway, a private express rail link, a stopping service, a Tube, National Express coaches, numerous car parks, limo/shuttle options, etc, etc.

Your posts smack of a lack of experience in what travelling to and from airports is like, as well as a lack of appreciation that companies might wish to give prominence, you know, to their own products!

People are not being scammed into taking Heathrow Express. It is quite clear at Heathrow that there's a perfectly good Tube service, as well as buses, and all the other options.

Most travellers I know research their options well and make a cost/benefit analysis.

You're looking for a problem that doesn't exist, you're digging your hole deeper, you're unfairly accusing Heathrow of "scamming" people, and you've just lost any scrap of credibility you had.

 

[DelW]

If you aren't starting from central London there are many places from which using the Piccadilly Line is much more convenient than going to Paddington or to one of the stations Heathrow Connect calls at. And a frequency of 10 minutes is better than either of the other rail services. I think it's perfectly fit for its purpose, which is to provide one of the three rail routes in Heathrow.

Indeed, even if you're beyond central London. A friend who travels regularly via LHR and lives near Finsbury Park uses the Piccadilly throughout, simply because once he's on the Picc train he doesn't need to move. Using HEx or HC from Paddington needs a minimum of two changes, so factor in 5 - 10 min per change and a wait for the HEx / HC service, and there's little or no time saving either.

 

[berneyarms]

They clearly list all of the options to Central London on a dedicated page on the website:

http://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/getting-to-central-london

 

[jumble]

I think it's seen as acceptable for airports to hugely prioritise their express services, however many alternatives there are. Both Fiumicino in Rome and Arlanda in Stockholm make the expensive Airport Express VERY visible, while playing down the local Regional/S-Bahn service. From a transport strategy perspective, while that could be seen as short sighted, it could also be seen as useful to get a decent proportion of people off of services used by local people. Those who are in the know use the local, cheaper services, the tourists (and rich business people) get put onto the expresses, thus saving capacity. Sure, where capacity is at a premium, that becomes questionable (*SNEEZE*GATWICK*SNEEZE), but it makes sense in a lot of situations.

This happens all over the world

I was always amused when the Picc wasnt running and TFL had agreed with HEX interoperatibility and no Oyster checkers that the Ticket sellers were selling tickets to tourists who could had they known have walked around the corner and bought an Oyster and travelled for free as I did.

It is cheaper still at Arlanda to avoid the airport supplement take a local bus and pick up the Train at Marsta but takes half an hour or so longer
Tripadvisor forums are always useful for this type of thing
Jumble

 

[Tetchytyke]

Surely Heathrow Airport still have a duty to properly advertise all of the services that serve their Airport whether or not they operate them. It is an absolute disgrace that such a huge major International Airport (the largest in the UK and possibly one of the largest in the world) so poorly advertises all of their other cheaper options and continues to mislead and scam passengers.

How much international air travel have you done? How much experience do you have of other world airports?

Take Hong Kong as an example. You can take the expensive Airport Express, which costs HK$100 single or HK$180 return (about £11 and £19 respectively)...or you can walk. JFK charge you US$5 each way to ride the AirTrain, a very short ride on a monorail to the subway or railroad. Otherwise you can walk. Dublin Bus direct you to their Airport Express bus which is EUR6 single/EUR10 return, whereas at the next bus stop you can take a normal public bus and pay EUR2.85 each way; Dublin Aircoach charge even more than Dublin Bus, but do you give you a coach with aircon and wifi rather than just a double decker with bench seats.

I still don't see where the "scam" is. If you think HEx is overpriced, then you have many other ways to get into central London. You pays your money, you takes your choice. When I've just dropped four grand on my holiday, I'm not going to sweat about £20.

 

[GW43125]

Different people have different reasons for using the different companies.

If I've just spent ten hours flying in from, say, the west coast of America (overnight), the last thing I'd want to do is sit on the tube for an hour. On the occasion I used HX as I needed an earlier first train than my local station offers, a taxi to the airport/airport parking cost quite a fair bit more than the HX fares when booked in advance, so if you can cough up that much for a cab then you'd be mad IMO to not consider HC/HX.

It all boils down to personal preference. From my experience it was rather well signposted (on this particular day HC was offering a reduced service and despite the lack thereof, the HC services were well advertised) at platform level, however I don't recall seeing any mention of HC until nearly on the platform.

I've only done this once though so couldn't possibly comment on the usual performance.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I agree that the London Underground should be free to enter and exit at Hatton Cross station (especially as the local buses are). I personally think that they should also allow anyone to travel for free around Heathrow Airport (not just contactless card and oyster card holders). They could do this by either removing the ticket barriers (as Heathrow Airport is not exactly somewhere where you are going to get high amounts of fare evasion) or by simply allowing passengers through who say they are just travelling around the Airport stations.

It used to be possible for everyone if they used the busses. I am not sure about now but certainly when the free bus zone was first introduced, and in the era where you could still use cash on busses, it was possible to board a bus simply telling the driver you were only going in the free zone and without having to use any smart card.

 

[MichaelAMW]

Surely Heathrow Airport still have a duty to properly advertise all of the services that serve their Airport whether or not they operate them. It is an absolute disgrace that such a huge major International Airport (the largest in the UK and possibly one of the largest in the world) so poorly advertises all of their other cheaper options and continues to mislead and scam passengers.

The thing is Heathrow Connect is not really a competitor. Unlike the Piccadilly Line it is still owned and run by Heathrow Express (especially as between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Airport First Group have nothing to do with it). So they don't really have an excuse to not advertise it properly.

If Heathrow Airport want a third runway and a sixth terminal then they really need to improve their public transport and promote and advertise their cheaper Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line options so that people don't continue to get misled and scammed in to using the Heathrow Express services. I really hope that when Crossrail starts it gets properly promoted and not hidden like the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line currently are.

I agree that the London Underground should be free to enter and exit at Hatton Cross station (especially as the local buses are). I personally think that they should also allow anyone to travel for free around Heathrow Airport (not just contactless card and oyster card holders). They could do this by either removing the ticket barriers (as Heathrow Airport is not exactly somewhere where you are going to get high amounts of fare evasion) or by simply allowing passengers through who say they are just travelling around the Airport stations.

You do realise that your repeated use of the word "scam" is one of the reasons you appear to come across as rather hysterical, rather than merely making a critical analysis of Heathrow's transport options?

 

[Joe Paxton]

It used to be possible for everyone if they used the busses. I am not sure about now but certainly when the free bus zone was first introduced, and in the era where you could still use cash on busses, it was possible to board a bus simply telling the driver you were only going in the free zone and without having to use any smart card.

That remains the case for buses within the Heathrow 'Freeflow' free travel zone.

 

[Clip]

Those horrible nasty people at HeX do not advertise any other options for travel into London and its all branded HeX everywhere.

Well apart from their rather large sales desk at T5 where, shock horror, there are large Underground roundels there!!!

https://youtu.be/5nXKo91mvZ4?t=2m

Scammers the lot of them. So much for knowing what goes on at airports you dont fly from eh?

 

[BananaRepublic]

I've just returned from Vienna.
On arrival in Vienna, the airport heavily promote their dedicated City Airport Train (CAT) express service, which takes 16 minutes non-stop to downtown Wien Mitte station.
On the same line, the local S-Bahn stopping train takes 25 minutes to Wien Mitte station.
There are 2 tph on each service, alternating between the two.

There are large advertisements and directions to the CAT and the signage is biased towards it.

CAT = €11.00 one-way or €17 return.
S-Bahn = €3.90 one-way, which also includes optional onward connection on other S-Bahn, U-Bahn, tram or buys to any central Vienna location.

This is almost exactly the same as HEX versus Connect.


With this discussion in mind, on returning to Heathrow yesterday (T3), I was looking out for the advertisements promoting HEX and the signs to the railway station as I proceeded through arrivals.
Sure enough, the adverts for HEX are there (very large once you clear customs) and the HEX promotion staff were present in the last minute duty free shop, as you leave the customs area.
The signs from the baggage hall and after clearing customs and through the public ground side arrivals hall, gave directions (public transport) to Buses, Heathrow Express and London Underground.
No mention of Heathrow Connect.

I didn't venture down the railway station route, as I was heading for the car park, so I've no idea what directions or information is displayed in the tunnels and station area.

 

[Searle]

I am sure there are lots of people out there (including those who travel on airplanes) who want to save money. The Heathrow Connect only takes 8 to 12 minutes longer than the Heathrow Express to get to London Paddington. The Heathrow Express is over double the cost of the Heathrow Connect. So if someone wants to travel on a fast quick train to London Paddington then they would almost certainly take the Heathrow Connect services if they knew about them. Most people will not mind that it only takes 8 to 12 minutes longer. And i know it only runs every 30 minutes but that is still convenient enough for most people. The problem is so many people are not aware of it which is why they use the Heathrow Express instead.

And then those who want to save even more money but don't mind the extra journey time can take the Piccadilly Line services. The Piccadilly Line services also directly serve far more locations in central London which will appeal to a lot of people.

From what i have seen most people do not buy advance tickets for services from an Airport in to the City. If you go to any London Airport the ticket offices and TVMs at the railway stations always have huge queues of people purchasing tickets.

I know i have never been on an Airplane before but i have been to Heathrow Airport many times and always noticed that the terminal buildings are covered in advertisements for Heathrow Express but there is almost nothing about the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line services. The staff are also very incompetent and i have seen them lie to people many times and they act like the Heathrow Express is the only service to serve Heathrow Airport.

What Heathrow Express are definitely doing is running a scam in order to scam as much money as possible out of people.

I presume you're still quite young? I'm sure when you're older, if you air travel for business then you'll start to understand why people use it. Those 8-12 minutes and the luxury of an express service are well worth the £25 to use it.

 

[Bromley boy]

I presume you're still quite young? I'm sure when you're older, if you air travel for business then you'll start to understand why people use it. Those 8-12 minutes and the luxury of an express service are well worth the £25 to use it.

Espescially when the vast majority of "business" travellers wont be paying for if ouf of their own pocket!

In my previous life I used HEX several times and thoroughly enjoyed the service. Wouldn't dream of paying for it myself though! Someone worked out once it cost more per mile than Concorde.

You pays your (or someone else's) money and you takes your choice!

 

[ian959]

Take Hong Kong as an example. You can take the expensive Airport Express, which costs HK$100 single or HK$180 return (about £11 and £19 respectively)...or you can walk.

Hong Kong is actually a very interesting example of an airport that DOES hide cheaper ways to get to Kowloon or Central. Catch the bus to Tung Chung and take the train from there to Kowloon or Central. About HK$30 compared to HK$100 on the Airport Express, if you want to take twice as long of course.

If you are really smart, you can do it cheaper than that too...

Which goes to reinforce the view that Heathrow Airport does do a VERY good job of advertising the options available to and from the airport... rather than allegedly scamming people.

 

[Mintona]

I travelled from Paddington to Hatton Cross on Sunday, and went via Hammersmith on the tube. Never again. Slow, lack of lifts with heavy baggage, traipsing from one Hammersmith station to another. Heathrow Express every time from now on.

From a GWML pathing point of view, removal of the HEX might be quite handy. But from a passenger convenience point of view it's worth its weight in gold.

 

[Mag_seven]

My big bugbear with HEX is that is takes up 4 valuable GWML main line paths an hour with stock that can only go at 100mph. Improvements to the whole GWML timetable that involve services to/from Paddington are severely constrained by its presence.

 

[paul1609]

Chris Grayling, Transport Secretary, must come through Heathrow from government engagements fairly regularly, passing by those self-same ticket touts in arrivals, and one would hope the half-truths and sneaky statements would come to his attention. As indeed they should have come to his predecessors' as well.

Of course the Transport Secretary is doubtless met by the terminal manager and personally escorted all the way through. And the touts are instructed to lay low when they see the entourage approaching.

Id imagine Chris Grayling would be met from the plane and taken directly to the Winsor Suite.

 

[al78]

I presume you're still quite young? I'm sure when you're older, if you air travel for business then you'll start to understand why people use it. Those 8-12 minutes and the luxury of an express service are well worth the £25 to use it.

If you are flying on business you may be able to claim transport expenses from your employer (I can), so the cost doesn't come into it.

 

[Ianno87]

I presume you're still quite young? I'm sure when you're older, if you air travel for business then you'll start to understand why people use it. Those 8-12 minutes and the luxury of an express service are well worth the £25 to use it.

When I was younger and single, I'd have never imagined the day when I'd want to pay for Heathrow Express for my leisure travel.

Now I have a family, and occasionally fly on holidays from Heathrow. As a one-off every now and again, I now 'get' the appeal of it when travelling with luggage, pram etc - much easier than the Piccadilly Line. Worth the premium (esecially as kids go free) and access via the Circle Line to Paddington has become more attractive with step-free access and the spacious S-stock.

Having said that, Crossrail and Thameslink together will in future combine to give us a simple, single change journey to Heathrow at Farringdon - and the Crossrail journey time should be relatively attractive (being, in effect, Connect minus the change at Paddington). So, *personally*, Heathrow Express will cease to have an appeal from 2019 onward.

 

[berneyarms]

If you are flying on business you may be able to claim transport expenses from your employer (I can), so the cost doesn't come into it.

As I posted earlier in the thread I'd often use HEx for the return trip to Heathrow to maximise the time I could spend on leisure trips to London simply because of the certainty of when I would get to Heathrow after leaving London.

With an advance ticket it's more than affordable.