Concerns over Heathrow Express

[matt_world2004]

Last time I was in there they weren't advertising Aldi.

Lying is a very serious allegation to make, I really hope you have some evidence,

I have provided direct evidence of lying in this thread you just havent done enough research within this thread to find it ,

 

[Clip]

It is clear though that they are running a scam. What they do is hide information and lie to and mislead customers in order to get people who are unaware (particularly the foreign tourists) to pay for the Heathrow Express services.

When someone asks any of the Heathrow Express staff around the airport how they can get to London they only ever tell them about the Heathrow Express but not any of the other options such as the Heathrow Connect and Piccadilly Line services. When someone goes to one of their ticket offices and asks to buy a ticket to London they automatically sell them a ticket for the Heathrow Express when they should really be asking them if they want the Heathrow Connect service or the Heathrow Express service. Similarly when someone goes to one of their TVMs the first tickets they will see are the Heathrow Express tickets while the Heathrow Connect tickets are much more hidden.

I have seen many of their staff on many different occasions tell people that the Heathrow Express is the only way to get to London. I have seen a member of staff lie to someone who asked about other options telling them that Heathrow Connect takes one hour and Piccadilly Line takes two hours (and the services were running completely normally. Their staff will do anything they can and lie as much as they like just to make as many passengers (particularly the foreign tourists who are unaware) pay the ludicrously overpriced Heathrow Express fares. I could easily list about 20 different lies i have heard them say. All of this is basically scamming. They are lying to and misleading customers on purpose. The Heathrow Express "blue gestapo" staff are pretty much just as bad as the Gatwick Express "red gestapo" staff.

There are an enormous amount of people who wouldn't use the Heathrow Express if they knew about the various other options.

Here is a price comparison of the various different rail options (prices shown are paper tickets bought on the day):

•Heathrow Connect Train
single - std - day - anytime - £10.30
return - std - open - anytime - £20.60

•Heathrow Express Train
single - std - day - offpeak - £22.00
single - std - day - anytime - £25.00
return - std - open - anytime - £37.00
single - 1st - day - anytime - £32.00
return - 1st - open - anytime - £55.00

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[with Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £8.60
return - std - day - anytime - £16.90
return - std - open - anytime - £17.20
single - 1st - day - anytime - £12.10
return - 1st - open - anytime - £24.20

•South West Trains (from Feltham)
[without Bus included]
single - std - day - anytime - £7.10
return - std - day - anytime - £13.90
single - 1st - day - anytime - £10.60
return - 1st - day - anytime - £21.20

•Underground Train (Piccadilly Line)
single - std - day - anytime - £6.00
return - std - day - anytime - £12.00

As you can see the Heathrow Express is ludicrously overpriced. Most people will not want to spend that sort of money for a very short journey just to get from an Airport in to a City. If people were actually aware of these various other cheaper options (which most people are not) then i am 100% sure that far more people would use them instead of the Heathrow Express services.

If someone wants a quick fast train to London Paddington then they would use the Heathrow Connect if they knew about it. It takes 8 to 12 minutes longer and is half the price. If someone wants to save more money (and even more if they use contactless cards or oyster cards) and need to reach Central London then they would take the Piccadilly Line if they knew about it. There are many people who do not mind the longer journey on the Piccadilly Line services. And for people who do want a quicker journey then they can take the Heathrow Connect services which are almost just as quick (but yet much cheaper) than Heathrow Express services.

What Heathrow Airport need to ensure is that the Heathrow Connect and Heathrow Express and Piccadilly Line are all equally advertised around the airport as each other. Seeing as they actually own and run the Heathrow Connect they have no excuse for not advertising it properly. I am aware that they don't own and run the Piccadilly Line but as it serves the Airport they still have no excuse for not advertising that properly either. The public transport at Heathrow Airport is a disgrace to foreign visitors. I don't think it leaves a good impression for them to have to empty their wallets to pay for a ludicrously overpriced service when they could have got it much cheaper.

Although Heathrow Express is not part of National Rail or the NRCOC they still have to listen to the various consumer laws and competition laws and various other laws. But unfortunately Heathrow Express seem to continue to ignore them. The Heathrow Express can not use the fact that they are not part of National Rail and NRCOC as an excuse to mislead and scam people. All three options need to be equally promoted all around the Airport and staff need to equally tell passengers about all three options.

I still 100% firmly believe that Heathrow Express are running a huge scam operation.

Once again you are just not listening as you haven't done in many other threads when people are trying to educate you and increase your knowledge base- which this forum is amazing for if you are willing to understand and open your mind a little.

However you are too entrenched in your views and the thought that you are right that you repeat the same over and over as some sort of validation for your lack of knowledge and downright rubbish that you are spouting.

If you don't want to learn nor listen to those who are telling you what is correct then this thread may as well be locked because it ls hopeless trying to get through to you.

But once more,because I am trying to be nice to you - Heathrow Airport and HeX do not have to promote any other service be that bus taxi train or underground(they already have signage for all these modes of transport so it already throws out your whole competition argument along with the toys from your pram) so can you please grasp this and just stop with the sheer lies about them being a scam or anything else.

 

[bb21]

When someone goes to one of their ticket offices and asks to buy a ticket to London they automatically sell them a ticket for the Heathrow Express when they should really be asking them if they want the Heathrow Connect service or the Heathrow Express service.

Not in my experience, every time, at either the Terminal 3 ticket office, the Terminal 5 ticket office, or Paddington ticket office. They have always asked which mode I would like.

I was also always asked where I was going, and when I mentioned Earl's Court on one occasion, it was proactively suggested to me that I would be better off catching the Underground.

So I cannot relate to your experiences whatsoever, and I have used their services regularly.

Some malpractice may possibly exist, as I cannot speak with 100% certainty, but your claims of "majority" and "at least 90%" are things I simply cannot relate to from my personal experience.

More importantly, not everyone is a cheapskate.

 

[JN114]

I have provided direct evidence of lying in this thread you just havent done enough research within this thread to find it ,

You've provided an account of what you were allegedly told by a member of HX staff. That is not evidence it is hearsay.

 

[matt_world2004]

You've provided an account of what you were allegedly told by a member of HX staff. That is not evidence it is hearsay.

Well then either me or Hex are lying which is it?

 

[JN114]

Well then either me or Hex are lying which is it?

I'm not saying anyone is lying.

You accused HX of lying.
You were asked to provide evidence.
You stated you had.
I told you hearsay isn't admissible as evidence.

Fraud is an incredibly serious accusation to make in such a public forum without evidence - and could result in legal action for libel against the forum management for allowing such allegations to be made public without evidence.

Provide admissible evidence of your allegations or withdraw your remarks.

 

[Clip]

Well then either me or Hex are lying which is it?

Well seeing how you have already used derogatory language against Jewish people to try and get your point across Im pretty much in the HeX camp for that question.

 

[matt_world2004]

I'm not saying anyone is lying.

You accused HX of lying.
You were asked to provide evidence.
You stated you had.
I told you hearsay isn't admissible as evidence.

Fraud is an incredibly serious accusation to make in such a public forum without evidence - and could result in legal action for libel against the forum management for allowing such allegations to be made public without evidence.

Provide admissible evidence of your allegations or withdraw your remarks.

Wouldnt the very statement describing the bloke making the statements in post 115 be he slander then rather than the conclusions drawn from that statement that they are lying to and scamming passenger. What evidence would satistify you that those statements were being made to passengers in the central travel area from a salesperson who was acting like a marketplace crier then?


Heathrow express has had 7 asa complaints "informally resolved" meaning they changed the wording of the marketing when the asa contacted them and one complaint fully upheld the complaint that was upheld found hexs marketing misleading , I cannot find any complaints against gatwick express that were made

Thats an huge amount for the size of operation tfl as a whole had a similar amount despite producing a lot more marketing material

 

[berneyarms]

Wouldnt the very statement describing the bloke making the statements in post 115 be he slander then rather than the conclusions drawn from that statement that they are lying to and scamming passenger. What evidence would satistify you that those statements were being made to passengers in the central travel area from a salesperson who was acting like a marketplace crier then?

Rather than making these kind of accusations on a third party message board, if you have specific evidence you should bring it to the relevant authorities.

As a previous poster has pointed out you're making very definite allegations on a third party message board - that's not really advisable or particularly clever.

If you're that concerned bring whatever evidence you have to the relevant authorities and see what they say.

 

[matt_world2004]

Rather than making these kind of accusations on a third party message board, if you have specific evidence you should bring it to the relevant authorities.

As a previous poster has pointed out you're making very definite allegations on a third party message board - that's not really advisable or particularly clever.

If you're that concerned bring whatever evidence you have to the relevant authorities and see what they say.

And what good will that do exactly? The guy is clearly acting under instructions from his employers and yet an evidenced formal complaint will not effect those that gave the instructions , they will claim that the guy was acting under his own volition and discipline/sack him claim everything has changed and then go back to their own tricks a few weeks later

Heathrow as a whole has had 6 asa complaints ruled against it and further 10 informqlly resolved honest they are not

 

[berneyarms]

And what good will that do exactly? The guy is clearly acting under instructions from his employers and yet an evidenced formal complaint will not effect those that gave the instructions , they will claim that the guy was acting under his own volition and discipline/sack him claim everything has changed and then go back to their own tricks a few weeks later

Heathrow as a whole has had 6 asa complaints ruled against it and further 10 informqlly resolved honest they are not

So basically all you're going to do is make what are effectively unsubstantiated allegations on a third party website, yet you make out you're very concerned about this.

It's a bit hypocritical to be honest.

 

[matt_world2004]

So basically all you're going to do is make what are effectively unsubstantiated allegations on a third party website, yet you make out you're very concerned about this.

It's a bit hypocritical to be honest.

So who do you suggest I contact exactly?

 

[berneyarms]

So who do you suggest I contact exactly?

Well that's for you to work out.

I'm not in the UK but I'm sure there are regulatory authorities that cover advertising etc.

But as a general rule it's not the best thing to do to make allegations on someone else's website unless you have absolute hard evidence of such practices, and even then it's better to go to the authorities.

 

[matt_world2004]

Well that's for you to work out.

I'm not in the UK but I'm sure there are regulatory authorities that cover advertising etc.

But as a general rule it's not the best thing to do to make allegations on someone else's website unless you have absolute hard evidence of such practices, and even then it's better to go to the authorities.

We do its called thw asa and they have caused heathrow express tontake corrective action a number of times,

 

[berneyarms]

We do its called thw asa and they have caused heathrow express tontake corrective action a number of times,

Well then my advice would be to contact them directly with your concerns rather than blindly posting them here.

 

[Clip]

And what good will that do exactly? The guy is clearly acting under instructions from his employers and yet an evidenced formal complaint will not effect those that gave the instructions , they will claim that the guy was acting under his own volition and discipline/sack him claim everything has changed and then go back to their own tricks a few weeks later

Heathrow as a whole has had 6 asa complaints ruled against it and further 10 informqlly resolved honest they are not

Now you are really clutching at straws and not even understanding what you are posting about.

I shall try and make the difference between the two clear for you.

The ASA is the standards body for printed/radio and TV media(including online content) and if the standrads are breached and a complaint made to them then they look at it and decide a course of action - in this case getting HeX to change some wording - which isnt a massive thing in the grand scheme of things.

A HeX sales rep is not advertising anything - they are selling you a product and ONLY one product - that of HeX into Paddington and as such they are NOT bound by ASA standards and nor are they bound by the inpartial selling rules that other TOCs are.

So you are confusing two very different things to try and make a point that is neither valid nor true and you are still riding a thin edge of what could possibly be slander against the company by stating they are involved in some sort of scam.

Try dictionary.com to find out what SCAM actually means.

 

[Clip]

*dictionary.com - I obviously cant spell myself

 

[matt_world2004]

Well then my advice would be to contact them directly with your concerns rather than blindly posting them here

again one ruling and six informal actions by the asa it doesnt exactly stop heathrow repeating the behavior So It would be pointless. The asa do not appear to cover verbal communication either

You are free to show this post to heathrow airport and I will await the legal action

How can you judge the truthfulness of communications of hex staff if you are not physically in the same country as them?

 

[Trailfinder]

As somebody who works at Heathrow in a passenger assistance role, I thought I would comment on this thread.

I have been asked many things, but I cannot recall ever being asked 'How do I get to London?' Passengers on the whole know where they are going and how to get there.

As far as transport questions, the most common questions are how do I get to the underground, the bus station, Heathrow Express, other terminals and where do I catch the Hotel Hoppa. The most common question is where are the toilets?

I use Heathrow Connect from/to Ealing Broadway, and what annoys me about it is that it stops at the far end of the platform from the entrance/exit to the platform, so requiring a 100 yard walk/run up the platform; the shuttle train also does this - I would have thought that this would be a safety issue, as it would leave an unprotected platform edge. Can anybody enlighten me why it does this as it is not very passenger friendly.

I also cannot understand why somebody who does not fly, spends a lot of time at the airport. Its no longer a leisure attraction, like it was when there was the roof gardens. The Wetherspoons are also expensive.

Oh well, must fly.

 

[berneyarms]

again one ruling and six informal actions by the asa it doesnt exactly stop heathrow repeating the behavior So It would be pointless. The asa do not appear to cover verbal communication either

You are free to show this post to heathrow airport and I will await the legal action

How can you judge the truthfulness of communications of hex staff if you are not physically in the same country as them?

Bizarrely enough I don't to live somewhere to be aware of how things work in a different country. Have you ever heard of people travelling from one country to another by air or sea?

I have the luxury of 20 flights a day to Heathrow from my local airport that I can use and I'm a frequent visitor. That's how I am very familiar with all of the options at the airport.

I've no issue with someone having a grievance at all, and if something gets on my nerves I'll do something about it. But going on and on and on about an organisation and making all sorts of allegations about them on a third party website, and then saying well, I won't actually do anything about it, is frankly hypocritical.

I have never said I did or didn't believe you heard what you claimed, that's a different issue to what I was posting. And I certainly don't condone people giving out incorrect information.

But if you have evidence of such behaviour you should do something about it given you you feel so passionately about it. I am being absolutely serious here. Using someone else's board to make all sorts of allegations and actually do nothing is pretty cynical to be honest.

My point all along is that in my experience most travellers I know are intelligent enough to make up their own minds, most research transport options in advance of travelling, and most certainly the majority of HEx passengers aren't there because they have been scammed, but rather because they chose it.

I think you and the other poster really don't give enough credit to people - plenty of people in my experience are prepared to pay a premium for a non-stop express - and you two need to accept that.

I believe there's room for all options.

And for the record I have used all of them at one point or another (HEx, HC, Picc Line, bus to Feltham & SWT, and bus to West Drayton/Hayes & Harlington & GWR) depending on where I am travelling to/from.

 

[matt_world2004]

Bizarrely enough I don't to live somewhere to be aware of how things work in a different country. Have you ever heard of people travelling from one country to another by air or sea?

I have the luxury of 20 flights a day to Heathrow from my local airport that I can use and I'm a frequent visitor. That's how I am very familiar with all of the options at the airport.

I've no issue with someone having a grievance at all, and if something gets on my nerves I'll do something about it. But going on and on and on about an organisation and making all sorts of allegations about them on a third party website, and then saying well, I won't actually do anything about it, is frankly hypocritical.

I have never said I did or didn't believe you heard what you claimed, that's a different issue to what I was posting. And I certainly don't condone people giving out incorrect information.

But if you have evidence of such behaviour you should do something about it given you you feel so passionately about it. I am being absolutely serious here. Using someone else's board to make all sorts of allegations and actually do nothing is pretty cynical to be honest.

My point all along is that in my experience most travellers I know are intelligent enough to make up their own minds, most research transport options in advance of travelling, and most certainly the majority of HEx passengers aren't there because they have been scammed, but rather because they chose it.

I think you and the other poster really don't give enough credit to people - plenty of people in my experience are prepared to pay a premium for a non-stop express - and you two need to accept that.

I believe there's room for all options.

And for the record I have used all of them at one point or another (HEx, HC, Picc Line, bus to Feltham & SWT, and bus to West Drayton/Hayes & Harlington & GWR) depending on where I am travelling to/from.

When I next work there and see deliberately misleading information I will video it for you and upload it so people can see the evidence for themselves

 

[JN114]

You are free to show this post to heathrow airport and I will await the legal action

Any legal action would be against the forum and its management not you personally. That is why you've been asked to provide evidence or drop it.

Prior action by the ASA is not evidence that a particular member of staff said a particular thing on a particular day. Observation on a given day is not evidence that most/90% of staff are liars/scammers. These, and others, are the very specific allegations which are at issue here.

There is a fine line between voicing an opinion on a company's advertising strategy as a whole, and directly accusing and individual of lying, or branding a group of workers as scammers. Respectfully, you and others have crossed that line - and for the sake of your fellow forum members I implore you to appreciate that distinction and withdraw your comments on the matter.

 

[berneyarms]

When I next work there and see deliberately misleading information I will video it for you and upload it so people can see the evidence for themselves

Or better still take that directly to the authorities, and make a formal complaint.

 

[matt_world2004]

Any legal action would be against the forum and its management not you personally. That is why you've been asked to provide evidence or drop it.

Prior action by the ASA is not evidence that a particular member of staff said a particular thing on a particular day. Observation on a given day is not evidence that most/90% of staff are liars/scammers. These, and others, are the very specific allegations which are at issue here.

There is a fine line between voicing an opinion on a company's advertising strategy as a whole, and directly accusing and individual of lying, or branding a group of workers as scammers. Respectfully, you and others have crossed that line - and for the sake of your fellow forum members I implore you to appreciate that distinction and withdraw your comments on the matter.

Forums and social media sites are generally protected from content of their contributors providing they cooperate with any legal action otherwise Facebook would ve bankrupt. Please can you find a quote where I called "90% of the staff as scammers"

 

[JN114]

Forums and social media sites are generally protected from content of their contributors providing they cooperate with any legal action otherwise Facebook would ve bankrupt. Please can you find a quote where I called "90% of the staff as scammers"

You didn't, another poster did.

 

[swt class 450]

I have been to Heathrow Airport many times for various different reasons. You don't have to travel on Airplanes to go to an Airport. Firstly i have family that live in Stanwell Moor so i have many times taken the train to Heathrow Airport as it is the nearest station. Secondly i have picked people up and dropped people off at Heathrow Airport many times. Thirdly i am a railway enthusiast so enjoy riding around and photographing the various trains and pods and buses around Heathrow Airport. And finally i also quite like and have an interest in architecture so find it quite interesting to walk around the Airport and the terminal buildings.

If someone has seen staff lying and scamming and misleading people then there is nothing wrong with posting this on a forum. Forums are a great place to post this as it shows the truth to more people and it makes many other people aware of their tricks.

I have personally seem staff lying and scamming people myself so whether or not some other members of this forum have seen it it certainly does happen. I have given plenty of examples of where i have seen staff lying. I have seen them tell passengers that the Heathrow Express is the only way to get to London. I have seen staff tell passengers that the Heathrow Connect takes one hour to get to London and the Piccadilly Line takes two hours to get to London. Their main aim seems to be to pretend that the Heathrow Express is the one and only way to get from Heathrow Airport to London. As i have said before their may possibly be a few competent staff members. However all of the staff i have seen have not been very competent.

If someone is fully aware of all of the different services and prices available but still chooses to waste their money on the overpriced Heathrow Express then that is entirely their choice and i have absolutely no problem with that. What i have a problem with is all of the many people who are not aware of the other options who get misled and scammed in to using the Heathrow Express services.

 

[paulravuslante]

I have been to Heathrow Airport many times for various different reasons. You don't have to travel on Airplanes to go to an Airport. Firstly i have family that live in Stanwell Moor so i have many times taken the train to Heathrow Airport as it is the nearest station. Secondly i have picked people up and dropped people off at Heathrow Airport many times. Thirdly i am a railway enthusiast so enjoy riding around and photographing the various trains and pods and buses around Heathrow Airport. And finally i also quite like and have an interest in architecture so find it quite interesting to walk around the Airport and the terminal buildings.

If someone has seen staff lying and scamming and misleading people then there is nothing wrong with posting this on a forum. Forums are a great place to post this as it shows the truth to more people and it makes many other people aware of their tricks.

I have personally seem staff lying and scamming people myself so whether or not some other members of this forum have seen it it certainly does happen. I have given plenty of examples of where i have seen staff lying. I have seen them tell passengers that the Heathrow Express is the only way to get to London. I have seen staff tell passengers that the Heathrow Connect takes one hour to get to London and the Piccadilly Line takes two hours to get to London. Their main aim seems to be to pretend that the Heathrow Express is the one and only way to get from Heathrow Airport to London. As i have said before their may possibly be a few competent staff members. However all of the staff i have seen have not been very competent.

If someone is fully aware of all of the different services and prices available but still chooses to waste their money on the overpriced Heathrow Express then that is entirely their choice and i have absolutely no problem with that. What i have a problem with is all of the many people who are not aware of the other options who get misled and scammed in to using the Heathrow Express services.

You exit arrivals, there are signs for Underground and Trains to London and you follow them accordingly. At the Heathrow Express stations there are racks displaying Hex and Connect timetables. There are maps on the walls highlighting Hex and Connect operating to London and the respective journey times. Plenty of change for someone to realise what their options are and how to find their way to London.

Yes the commission based sales staff in the arrivals hall may place more emphasis on Hex as that is their bread and butter but if they were physically accosting people and taking their money this would be a different matter. Nobody is forcing people to hand over their cash or card to pay for something they do not want to pay for and they can simply walk away.

in reference to your comments of the Blue Gestapo...you are clearly not very observant seeing as our uniform has been based on grey / mustard / purple colours for around 5 years!

 

[Wivenswold]

Libel law awards are based on "reputational damage" and the perceived cost to the plaintiff that the reputational damage may cause. In that instance an opinion on a forum may not be sufficient to trigger a successful libel action.

However, UK Rail Forum could be subject of a "cease and desist" letter from the libeled party and depending on the requested action of that letter it could end up costing them thousands if a Solicitor has to be instructed to respond.

Notwithstanding Forum Rules, if you've got evidence of illegal or negligent behaviour it is prudent to pursue the case without dragging others, such as this forum, into it. Especially if allegations for which there would be no firm basis of evidence (i.e. overheard conversations, undocumentable personal experiences) are used in the strongest terms.

In short, if you're going to start a legal battle, do it on your online space where you are easily identifiable to third parties and therefore personally responsible for your allegations in law (e.g Facebook). Or complain to the relevant bodies yourself, that's what I do.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is a bafflingly stupid thread. As I understand it, a couple of posters are unhappy that HEx - a private company - doesn't tell prospective customers about its competitors. Wow, bombshell guys. You got 'em.

Welcome to the world of business.

HEx isn't a TOC and is a wholly private operation. It doesn't have to behave like TOCs do, and behaves more like British Airways, who won't tell you that Virgin are an alternative when you go to buy your ticket.

 

[Tetchytyke]

London Underground isn't a train service. It might be misleading to say Express/Connect is the only train to London, but it's not a lie. My experience doesn't match yours, and I've not witnessed tourists being "bullied" by the "gestapo". Most people want the HEx.

ASA complaints aren't proof of lying, the complaints IIRC were from their competitors arguing that they had an misleadingr attitude to where "Central London" is. Ironically, they are still faster to Oxford Circus, which most tourists would think of as the centre of London.

And as AlterEgo says, of course they're not going to put huge adverts up for their competitors. Again, that's not a lie, that's business. Tesco don't tell me I can save 50p down the road in Asda; BA don't tell me I can save £200 on Emirates.

HEx is expensive. For me, it's worth the cost, taking into account the cost of my airfares. For you it isn't. Luckily Heathrow give you a choice. Many world airports, such as Hong Kong, don't.