Concerns over Heathrow Express

[Joe Paxton]

...
Having said that, Crossrail and Thameslink together will in future combine to give us a simple, single change journey to Heathrow at Farringdon - and the Crossrail journey time should be relatively attractive (being, in effect, Connect minus the change at Paddington). So, *personally*, Heathrow Express will cease to have an appeal from 2019 onward.

Yep, it'll be interesting to see how HEx ridership plays out after Crossrail arrives. And it'll be better than 'Heathrow Connect minus the change' as it'll be more frequent.

Time will tell.

(Time will also tell if we really do all end up calling it the Elizabeth Line!)

 

[Morgsie]

I have read all 8 page of this thread and I don't get what the issue is. To Be Honest I have not been to Heathrow by rail. Last time I was there was in the late 1990s changing coaches to Gatwick flying to Span.

There is a question I would like to ask regarding HX and the Western Rail Access Link (WARL) which is will HX be operating the Heathrow to Reading services once the link is open?

I am aware of the proposal but heard nothing regarding who will run services

 

[mickulty]

There's been some suggestion that maps are handed out which exclude the piccadilly line. Does that mean the maps handed out at the airport are different from the one available on the airport website? http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/GIF/Transport_and_Directions/LHR_Train_Map.gif

 

[coppercapped]

I have read all 8 page of this thread and I don't get what the issue is. To Be Honest I have not been to Heathrow by rail. Last time I was there was in the late 1990s changing coaches to Gatwick flying to Span.

There is a question I would like to ask regarding HX and the Western Rail Access Link (WARL) which is will HX be operating the Heathrow to Reading services once the link is open?

I am aware of the proposal but heard nothing regarding who will run services

No decision has yet been made or if one has been made by DfT/HAL/ORR/whomsoever, it has not been made public. Equally no decision has yet been made as to whether the Western Approaches link will be built at all.

The question is moot.

 

[matt_world2004]

There's been some suggestion that maps are handed out which exclude the piccadilly line. Does that mean the maps handed out at the airport are different from the one available on the airport website? http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/GIF/Transport_and_Directions/LHR_Train_Map.gif

That isnt the map. The map shows a tube map with a mishmash of zone 1-3 it shows the heathrow express at paddington as going to heathrow but it dows not label the picadilly line doing the same thing

 

[6Gman]

They clearly list all of the options to Central London on a dedicated page on the website:

http://www.heathrow.com/transport-and-directions/getting-to-central-london

I did a quick enquiry on there from Kensington.

It offered 2 options using Heathrow Express, 3 options using the Piccadilly Line.

Seems reasonable.

 

[berneyarms]

That isnt the map. The map shows a tube map with a mishmash of zone 1-3 it shows the heathrow express at paddington as going to heathrow but it dows not label the picadilly line doing the same thing

What you're going on about is a promotional leaflet by Heathrow Express for their own service - why would they show the other alternatives?

The Heathrow Airport website clearly show the various options and the signage at the airport clearly shows the Underground.

 

[matt_world2004]

What you're going on about is a promotional leaflet by Heathrow Express for their own service - why would they show the other alternatives?

The Heathrow Airport website clearly show the various options and the signage at the airport clearly shows the Underground.

It is presented as some kind of information leaflet

 

[Clip]

It is presented as some kind of information leaflet

Does it give information about Hex going to Paddington?

 

[coppercapped]

My big bugbear with HEX is that is takes up 4 valuable GWML main line paths an hour with stock that can only go at 100mph. Improvements to the whole GWML timetable that involve services to/from Paddington are severely constrained by its presence.

At the moment the Class 332s are entirely compatible with the HSTs on the Mains. The 332s have much greater acceleration than the HSTs and are at full tilt by Ealing Broadway whereas the HSTs reach cruising speed by Hayes, in other words practically at Airport Junction. The working timetable gives the HEx trains 9 1/2 minutes to Airport Junction and an HST is typically given 10. 100mph HExs are not scheduled immediately after a 125mph HST as they would catch them up...

The trains which call at Maidenhead and Twyford on the Mains are commonly scheduled to leave Paddington just before a HEx so that an HST following the HEx can get a clear run to Reading as essentially a path has been left free for it.

Similar considerations apply in the reverse direction.

The 100mph limit of the 332s is not a limiting factor - what is much more constraining is the 90mph limit of the Class 165/166 trains when they have to use the Mains - they take 6 minutes longer non-stop to Reading than an HST and so consume an extra path.

Of course the introduction of the Class 80X and 387 trains will change the picture considerably - we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.

 

[Kite159]

Last time I was at Gatwick, they were advertising the overpriced Gatwick Express services (and at one stage did someone have the bright idea of announcing the regular southern services to Victoria as they terminated at Clapham Junction to push passengers towards the non-stop services?)

Once the Thin Lizzy (Crossrail/Elizabeth Line) replaces Heathrow Connect and runs to Heathrow from 'central' London it will be interesting to see. Passenger usage for HEX would probably drop, however there will still be a market for a non-stop service, allowing passengers to take their time to board a train from Paddington with luggage with a very good chance of a seat compared to a short dwell time at Paddington Low-Level to board an already busy commuter service full of passengers heading to the likes of Ealing Broadway/Southall.

 

[6Gman]

It is presented as some kind of information leaflet

Well of course it is! So is the leaflet from my local Nisa!

 

[GW43125]

Last time I was at Gatwick, they were advertising the overpriced Gatwick Express services (and at one stage did someone have the bright idea of announcing the regular southern services to Victoria as they terminated at Clapham Junction to push passengers towards the non-stop services?)

Once the Thin Lizzy (Crossrail/Elizabeth Line) replaces Heathrow Connect and runs to Heathrow from 'central' London it will be interesting to see. Passenger usage for HEX would probably drop, however there will still be a market for a non-stop service, allowing passengers to take their time to board a train from Paddington with luggage with a very good chance of a seat compared to a short dwell time at Paddington Low-Level to board an already busy commuter service full of passengers heading to the likes of Ealing Broadway/Southall.

What remains to be seen is whether that drop would be enough to warrant a drop to, say, 2 or 3 tph, or would that not happen so as to keep the frequency selling point?

 

[GW43125]

The 100mph limit of the 332s is not a limiting factor - what is much more constraining is the 90mph limit of the Class 165/166 trains when they have to use the Mains - they take 6 minutes longer non-stop to Reading than an HST and so consume an extra path.

Of course the introduction of the Class 80X and 387 trains will change the picture considerably - we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.

The Bristol HSTs are pathed out of London 8-10 mins behind the Oxford turbo which calls at Slough & Reading, meaning you've caught the bugger up by Maidenhead, chasing yellows down to Reading at 80mph

 

[swt class 450]

No i am actually not really that young at all. I am in my 40s. Although i haven't ever been on Airplanes i have still done lots of International travel to various other countries by train / ferry / bus / car.

As i have said before it is also about personal preference. I don't mind taking the Heathrow Connect which is much cheaper and only takes 8 to 12 minutes longer (and in my opinion the 360s are much nicer to travel on then the 332s are). I also don't mind taking the Piccadilly Line which although it takes a bit longer is very convenient for lots of central London locations. I know there are lots of other people as well who don't mind taking the Heathrow Connect or Piccadilly Line services. Sure there might be a few people who don't mind paying ludicrous prices for the Heathrow Express but the vast majority would take the Heathrow Connect or Piccadilly Line if they knew about it. There are lots of people out there who want to save money and not everyone is in an enormous rush to get someone either.

Basically what i am saying is that many customers are using the Heathrow Express simply because they are not aware of the other options. If someone wants a quick fast journey to London then most people would take the Heathrow Connect as it cheaper (and only takes 8 to 12 minutes longer) if they knew about it. Similarly if someone wants to save even more money (especially if they are going in to the Central London area) then most people would take the Piccadilly Line as it is even cheaper.

The Heathrow Connect is by far the most hidden and poorly promoted railway service in the UK. The Piccadilly Line i find is also hidden and poorly promoted as well.

The reason why i keep calling it a scam is because this is basically what Heathrow Express are doing. They are hiding information and misleading and lying to their customers in order to get them to take the Heathrow Express so that they make as much money as possible.

Yes i am fully aware that the same thing happens in other countries. For example i have been to Moscow a few times (by train) and noticed that all three of the main airports are served by the aeroexpress overpriced trains and the much cheaper suburban trains. The suburban trains are very hidden with very little information about them which is just what happens at Heathrow Airport. However just because other countries do this it does not give Heathrow Airport and Heathrow Express an excuse to mislead and scam passengers as well.

 

[rmt4ever]

Well said and quite true.

I have seen some dreadful attempts by HEx staff to defraud me and others. One is that they have uniformed ticket touts INSIDE the international arrivals corridor, before you come out, who pretend that HEx is the only rail service into London and want to sell tickets for it on the spot. Those with poorer English are their especial prey.

I asked one 5 tout how I could get to Hyde Park Corner, he started to push a HEx ticket into my hand and said taxi or bus from Paddington. I responded why not the Piccadilly Line directly from here, much more frequent, direct, a fraction of the price, etc. He just poo-pooed me away

Then when 5 opened, at the Piccadilly Line Underground station the station staff there are actually HEx employees, who work in bland unbadged uniforms and you would think they were Underground staff. But no. Once I arrived at 5, the Piccadilly section from 5 to 123 was suspended due to some failure. They were telling everyone the only thing they could now do was get the HEx to Paddington. I asked (loudly) why we could not take the (free) HEx to 123 and change to the Underground there, which was advertised by notice as still running. None of the staff I put this to would say one word back to me, they were obviously under strict instructions to only refer people to the HEx.

At least they have railway staff to give help and advice and directions. Unlike the crappy system in Newcastle !

HEX is a dream compared to that.

 

[GW43125]

1Basically what i am saying is that many customers are using the Heathrow Express simply because they are not aware of the other options. If someone wants a quick fast journey to London then most people would take the Heathrow Connect as it cheaper (and only takes 8 to 12 minutes longer) if they knew about it. Similarly if someone wants to save even more money (especially if they are going in to the Central London area) then most people would take the Piccadilly Line as it is even cheaper.


2The reason why i keep calling it a scam is because this is basically what Heathrow Express are doing. They are hiding information and misleading and lying to their customers in order to get them to take the Heathrow Express so that they make as much money as possible.

You've been told so many bloody times, change the bloody record!

1) Heathrow Connect is wedged during the peaks, not very fun, the 332 provides a more frequent service with more capacity.
Please do show us all this evidence you have that people don't know. We'd love to hear it.

2) This isn't a scam, this is business. They are not legally obliged to tell you about their competitors. As someone said earlier, this is in a similar vain to Sainsbury's not advertising the Lidl down the road, for example.

 

[swt class 450]

At least they have railway staff to give help and advice and directions. Unlike the crappy system in Newcastle !

HEX is a dream compared to that.

I agree that Newcastle Metro really need to have staff at the Newcastle Airport station to help passengers but at least they don't charge ludicrous rip off fares and mislead customers.

You've been told so many bloody times, change the bloody record!

1) Heathrow Connect is wedged during the peaks, not very fun, the 332 provides a more frequent service with more capacity.
Please do show us all this evidence you have that people don't know. We'd love to hear it.

2) This isn't a scam, this is business. They are not legally obliged to tell you about their competitors. As someone said earlier, this is in a similar vain to Sainsbury's not advertising the Lidl down the road, for example.

Whilst i realise that the Piccadilly Line is not run by them the Heathrow Connect is and is therefore not a competitor therefore they have no excuse not to advertise it properly.

 

[bb21]

They could do this by either removing the ticket barriers (as Heathrow Airport is not exactly somewhere where you are going to get high amounts of fare evasion) or by simply allowing passengers through who say they are just travelling around the Airport stations.

Oh dear.

Where do I start with this one?

I won't. I think we are done with this thread.