Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[gordonthemoron]

Had another letter from Network Rail about bridge coring the first week in May in the Garforth area. They're getting on with the stuff they would need to do anyway regardless of what the final plan looks like.

is that what they were doing over Easter weekend?

 

[IanXC]

is that what they were doing over Easter weekend?

There may have been other ancillary works going on, but the primary purpose of the Easter blockade was to relay Micklefield junction.

 

[YorkshireBear]

There may have been other ancillary works going on, but the primary purpose of the Easter blockade was to relay Micklefield junction.

Relayed at a higher speed (for the York line anyway). Eventually once all the TSR's are removed it will be 100mph Leeds-York as the Main Line with a 70mph turnout to Hull.

I think anyway!

 

[IanXC]

Relayed at a higher speed (for the York line anyway). Eventually once all the TSR's are removed it will be 100mph Leeds-York as the Main Line with a 70mph turnout to Hull.

I think anyway!

Yes that's my understanding too (although I'd not seen the speeds).

 

[Senex]

Relayed at a higher speed (for the York line anyway). Eventually once all the TSR's are removed it will be 100mph Leeds-York as the Main Line with a 70mph turnout to Hull.

I think anyway!

Has anyone got the full details of what has been done?

There's a report in one society's news-area that once the TSR 50 on the new junction has been removed the speed on the York to Leeds line will be 90 throughout, with 70 through the junction from Hull. Which is what one would expect, given that the rise to 100 is probably part of a later scheme for a longer section.

The puzzle is what is reported for the eastbound direction, where it seems that the speed over the divergence to Hull will indeed be 70 but the speed on what is now the "straight" line to York will be only 80. If this is correct, could it be a signalling matter, trying to avoid changes for the time being? 80/70 could have free greens either way, as the 70/70 previously did, whereas 90/70 would need flashing yellows to be put in for the Hull line if my memory of the rules is correct. If I'm right, are there any plans for flashing yellows here?

 

[lineclear]

Has anyone got the full details of what has been done?

There's a report in one society's news-area that once the TSR 50 on the new junction has been removed the speed on the York to Leeds line will be 90 throughout, with 70 through the junction from Hull. Which is what one would expect, given that the rise to 100 is probably part of a later scheme for a longer section.

The puzzle is what is reported for the eastbound direction, where it seems that the speed over the divergence to Hull will indeed be 70 but the speed on what is now the "straight" line to York will be only 80. If this is correct, could it be a signalling matter, trying to avoid changes for the time being? 80/70 could have free greens either way, as the 70/70 previously did, whereas 90/70 would need flashing yellows to be put in for the Hull line if my memory of the rules is correct. If I'm right, are there any plans for flashing yellows here?

This is indeed the case. The through route (now Leeds-York) is 80 on the down, 90 on the up pending Transpennine resignalling which will allow 100.

 

[YorkshireBear]

This is indeed the case. The through route (now Leeds-York) is 80 on the down, 90 on the up pending Transpennine resignalling which will allow 100.

Ahh was not sure it was an intermediate case with signalling. Knew the layout had been put in based on 100mph.

 

[snowball]

Platforms 1-2 at Manchester Victoria, being east-facing bays, were not included in the electrification a couple of years ago. User Freel07 has posted these pictures on Skyscrapercity today. The bottom one includes, at the left, two yellow marks on the ground which he conjectures may be positions for OLE bases for P1 (though they look a bit close together).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=139611599&postcount=6857

 

[deltic08]

So this rules out quad tracking from Neville Hill to Micklefield for many years until this junction next needs relaying.
I can't see 70mph at Church Fenton being upgraded to 90 or 100mph cheaply.

 

[YorkshireBear]

So this rules out quad tracking from Neville Hill to Micklefield for many years until this junction next needs relaying.
I can't see 70mph at Church Fenton being upgraded to 90 or 100mph cheaply.

Probably however that option is not on the table anyway due to cost.

 

[Senex]

So this rules out quad tracking from Neville Hill to Micklefield for many years until this junction next needs relaying.
I can't see 70mph at Church Fenton being upgraded to 90 or 100mph cheaply.

Church Fenton York-bound is 80 -- the 70 is towards Leeds. I wonder if the lower limit is because of the 15-mph connection from the platform line into the back of the curve.

As to quadding to Micklefield, was that proposed to extend through the station to the junction, or would it always have stopped short of the platforms so as to avoid the need for a completely new station?

As to Neville Hill, would it be possible to use some of the land of the apparently disused sidings south of the running lines to go back to what looks like the original alignment at the point instead of the flattened alignment with two sharper curves that we have today -- do a sort of Market Harborough job and go back to an older and better alignment?

 

[snowball]

Further to #608, Freel07 says further locations are marked between Victoria and Miles Platting.

 

[lejog]

Platforms 1-2 at Manchester Victoria, being east-facing bays, were not included in the electrification a couple of years ago. User Freel07 has posted these pictures on Skyscrapercity today. The bottom one includes, at the left, two yellow marks on the ground which he conjectures may be positions for OLE bases for P1 (though they look a bit close together).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=139611599&postcount=6857

Although it seems to have been assumed by some that Victoria would only be served by through trains after 2019, this does not seem to be the case (in either direction). The Northern Franchise Agreement specifies 35 tpd from Stalybridge and Ashton into Victoria, only 27 of which continue via Salford.

 

[Geeves]

As far as I remember I think the bays were included in the Stalybridge, Miles Platting and Ashburys works so that would answer why they weren't done on the Liverpool - Manchester bit already. I know they were always planned to done in some phase just for ease of operation and storing electrics away out of the through lines.

 

[deltic08]

Church Fenton York-bound is 80 -- the 70 is towards Leeds. I wonder if the lower limit is because of the 15-mph connection from the platform line into the back of the curve.

As to quadding to Micklefield, was that proposed to extend through the station to the junction, or would it always have stopped short of the platforms so as to avoid the need for a completely new station?

As to Neville Hill, would it be possible to use some of the land of the apparently disused sidings south of the running lines to go back to what looks like the original alignment at the point instead of the flattened alignment with two sharper curves that we have today -- do a sort of Market Harborough job and go back to an older and better alignment?

A new station at Thorpe Park and a cross Leeds service to East Leeds Parkway at Micklefield after electrification was conditional on quad tracking. Where this ended wasn't made clear but a dedicated turnback siding and platform was to be installed at Micklefield so junction remodelling will be required again if this proposal goes ahead.

According to Network Rail, this two track route to Micklefield is already optimised and has no further capacity until stopping and non stopping services are segregated by, I assume, four tracking.

55mph at Neville Hill could easily be increased to 80mph by making a regular curve into the up side sidings instead of a flattened curve. As you say, the boundary fence follows the original curve here that was flattened in WW1 to allow installation of additional siding.

 

[Ploughman]

Embankment width between the M1 bridge and Garforth would need fairly major work I think.
Originally, I believe, cuttings were built to a 4 track width but embankments were not.
Or am I wrong in this belief?

In Leeds itself, are there any plans known for the stretch along the viaduct from Leeds station to Marsh Lane cutting?
Back in the early 90's it was stated then that there was a protected corridor to enable any potential 4 tracking. However this apparently was done away with by Railtrack when new offices were then built close to the viaduct.

 

[snowball]

In Leeds itself, are there any plans known for the stretch along the viaduct from Leeds station to Marsh Lane cutting?

I doubt there's anything official.

Edit: I think a report is due in the autumn (on completion of GRIP 3, perhaps?) on what track imrovements are required for the TP electrification, so we may find out then.

A couple of years ago the West and North Yorkshire Chamber of Commerce came up with a plan to route HS2 into Leeds this way, widening the corridor to 4 tracks, two of which would be HS2. There's doubtless a thread about it somewhere.

 

[deltic08]

Embankment width between the M1 bridge and Garforth would need fairly major work I think.
Originally, I believe, cuttings were built to a 4 track width but embankments were not.
Or am I wrong in this belief?

In Leeds itself, are there any plans known for the stretch along the viaduct from Leeds station to Marsh Lane cutting?
Back in the early 90's it was stated then that there was a protected corridor to enable any potential 4 tracking. However this apparently was done away with by Railtrack when new offices were then built close to the viaduct.

Almost correct. From bottom of Marsh Lane to Garforth, the formation is wide enough for four tracks including the road bridge over the west end of Garforth station. From Garforth to Micklefield, as you say, cuttings are four track wide in places but embankments only two track.

 

[Mollman]

A new station at Thorpe Park and a cross Leeds service to East Leeds Parkway at Micklefield after electrification was conditional on quad tracking. Where this ended wasn't made clear but a dedicated turnback siding and platform was to be installed at Micklefield so junction remodelling will be required again if this proposal goes ahead.

According to Network Rail, this two track route to Micklefield is already optimised and has no further capacity until stopping and non stopping services are segregated by, I assume, four tracking.

55mph at Neville Hill could easily be increased to 80mph by making a regular curve into the up side sidings instead of a flattened curve. As you say, the boundary fence follows the original curve here that was flattened in WW1 to allow installation of additional siding.

Isn't the plan that when / if East Leeds Pkwy opens Micklefield would close?

In regards to no further capacity - won't an extra TPEx train need fitting in when they go up to 6 per hour?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Isn't the plan that when / if East Leeds Pkwy opens Micklefield would close?

In regards to no further capacity - won't an extra TPEx train need fitting in when they go up to 6 per hour?

I think East Leeds Parkway is/was planned to replace Micklefield similar to how Liverpool South Parkway replaced Garston and Allerton...

TPE will only be 5tph East of Leeds, the extra semi-fast service will be Piccadilly to Leeds only.

 

[lejog]

The December 2016 version of the CP5 Enhancements Plan now has specific details of the work to be carried out on the Leeds-Micklefield section before electrification. Not much at all from an infrastructure point of view.

The scope is to develop, to the end of GRIP 3, the intermediate interventions that will support the Transpennine Route Upgrade .......

Micklefield Junction Line Speed Improvement
Infrastructure improvements at Micklefield Junction to support journey time improvements on inter-regional services, improvements in junction capacity and junction performance as well as the operation of longer trains on regional services

Garforth Area Line Speed Improvements
Infrastructure improvements at Garforth station area to support journey time improvements on inter-regional services and operation of longer trains as well as the installation of passenger lifts to improve accessibility at the station.

Increased capacity seems to be achieved by provision of longer trains, Northern are planning to run 6 car stopping services to Selby and York, TPE will be runnng 5/6 car.

 

[snowball]

The December 2016 version of the CP5 Enhancements Plan now has specific details of the work to be carried out on the Leeds-Micklefield section before electrification.

The March 2017 version of the document is now out, as discussed recently in other threads, but the wording you quote is unchanged.

 

[deltic08]

I think East Leeds Parkway is/was planned to replace Micklefield similar to how Liverpool South Parkway replaced Garston and Allerton...

TPE will only be 5tph East of Leeds, the extra semi-fast service will be Piccadilly to Leeds only.

Only because there isn't the capacity between Leeds and Micklefield for 6tph TPE.

 

[deltic08]

The December 2016 version of the CP5 Enhancements Plan now has specific details of the work to be carried out on the Leeds-Micklefield section before electrification. Not much at all from an infrastructure point of view.



Increased capacity seems to be achieved by provision of longer trains, Northern are planning to run 6 car stopping services to Selby and York, TPE will be runnng 5/6 car.

Longer trains does not solve the problem unless frequency is reduced on this section. All station services take up a lot of capacity on a two track railway. That is why even NR suggested money should be spent on quad tracking to Micklefield by 2016 to avoid capacity crunch. This did not happen. Reduced frequency would be unacceptable to those using Cross Gate, Garforth, East Garforth, Church Fenton, Ulleskelf, South Milford and Selby.

 

[snowball]

Just noticed on WN Sparks website a closure/blockade Man Victoria - Stalybridge July 8th - July 30th - I assume it would be to a certain degree electrification related though other stuff would one assumes get done too.

http://nw-sparks.co.uk/works.php?id=443

Possibly one of the things to be done then will be to replace the bridge over Turner Lane, adjacent to Ashton-u-L station. The road is closed from 13 May until September:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/turner-lane-to-close-for-bridge-work/

Tuner Lane in Ashton-under-Lyne, Tameside, will close for 16 weeks from 13 May while Network Rail rebuilds the railway bridge.

Work on the bridge, next to Ashton-under-Lyne station, will mean a road and footpath closure of Turner Lane, adjacent to the railway bridge, will be in place from 13 May 2017 until September 2017.

Network Rail has liaised with Tameside Council and put in place a clearly-signed diversion for pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles.

In advance of the main work, a temporary work site will be set up in a section of the Union Street car park from 2 May 2017.

For further information contact Network Rail’s 24 hour national helpline on 03457 11 41 41.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Possibly one of the things to be done then will be to replace the bridge over Turner Lane, adjacent to Ashton-u-L station. The road is closed from 13 May until September:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/turner-lane-to-close-for-bridge-work/

It is all progress.

 

[Class 170101]

Only because there isn't the capacity between Leeds and Micklefield for 6tph TPE.

Why not send the 6th train via Castleford to reach York if Leeds to Micklefield capacity is an issue.

 

[edwin_m]

Why not send the 6th train via Castleford to reach York if Leeds to Micklefield capacity is an issue.

Probably because Leeds is the place most of the passengers want to go to.

 

[Grumpy]

Probably because Leeds is the place most of the passengers want to go to.

I assumed he meant run Leeds-York via Castleford which might have some merit with a stop at Castleford giving that area an outlet to York and direct trains to the West.

 

[lejog]

Why not send the 6th train via Castleford to reach York if Leeds to Micklefield capacity is an issue.

Leeds to Micklefield capacity for carrying increasing passenger numbers is not a problem, its only an issue to those who think there should be more than 8tph or more than 2tph stopping services.

There is no chance of any significant investment for >8tph until the future of HS3/NPR is known.

Anyway has there been any official suggestion of a 6th TPE train east of Leeds. To and from where? The 6th TPE service west of Leeds is a replacement for Northern stopper(s), not an extra|inter-regional/inter-city service. It may revert to Northern after electrification.