Old couple walk into Quiet Zone, immediately start constant conversation

[AlterEgo]

Headphones do not block out conversations. Not even Bose's noise-cancelling headphones.

Are people hard of hearing and/or do they play their music at deafeningly loud volumes?

I stick my earphones in on my morning commute (in a "normal" coach) and don't hear conversations, mainly because I'm not annoyed enough to be listening for them.

You don't need the music on at a loud volume to forget about ambient noise.

 

[All Line Rover]

I wonder if the time of the Quiet Coach is over.

The HS2 rolling stock procurement documents reference the complaint that train travel can be too loud for some groups of passengers (and too quiet for others). That suggests quiet coaches are not considered an irrelevance. The same goes for "family coaches".

It was a good idea when people did spend lots of time shouting down their (non-smart) mobile phones. Now most people spend most of the time doing quiet stuff on their smart phones and tablets.

Mobile phone conversations are no quieter than in previous years. Trains are considerably quieter, however, which makes noise from other passengers all the more distracting as it is no longer drowned out.

I sat in the quiet coach near a large family party with several children a couple of weeks ago. Lots of noise, but not a breach of the rules.

Would that party be sat in there if every member had to pay a £5 supplement? And what if the TOC refused to sell supplements for children below the age of 13?

 

[philthetube]

I would rather sit in a regular coach and accept that there will be people jabbering on their phones than sit in a quiet coach and get stressed when someone ignores the rules.

100%agree, I can cope with people using mobile phones etc. I cant cope with the stress I feel when they are using mobiles where they shouldn't be

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

You know what? When I was younger, I used to wind up about this sort of stuff, but life is too short. The public make a racket, smell and are generally nasty. If you don't like travelling with the public, don't. Buy a chuffing car and enjoy the queue of people with their hands out for your cash. I will take my chances on the train thanks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Mobile phone conversations are no quieter than in previous years.

Indeed not, but far more people are using electronic messaging of whatever kind instead of actually speaking to people, and a smartphone's "keyboard" is silent (unless you have the key click on, and even then it's not loud).

My experience of quiet coach "misuse" is more based around the playing out loud of films and TV shows on tablets and phones than on phone calls.

 

[al78]

You know what? When I was younger, I used to wind up about this sort of stuff, but life is too short. The public make a racket, smell and are generally nasty. If you don't like travelling with the public, don't. Buy a chuffing car and enjoy the queue of people with their hands out for your cash. I will take my chances on the train thanks.

Disliking thoughtless or don't-give-a-toss people is not the same as disliking traveling with the public, it is the former that this thread is about.

You are not safe from cockwombles in a car either. Other drivers regularly do thoughtless and dangerous actions that at least have the potential to externalise costs on others. That is why we have over a thousand deaths and tens of thousands of injuries on the roads every year. In any case, why shouldn't I speak out against poor behaviour. If no-one does, it just becomes accepted, the perpetrators become entitled, and the quality of life goes down down down.

What we really need is a justice sphere surrounding the earth, within which all consequences are inflicted on the perpetrator, not the potential victim. It would then be a case of think what you are doing or suffer.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

On the 07:17 from Preston to New St and there hasn't been a moment of silence from them, utterly ridiculous an d disrespectful.

I know its not the 'Silent Zone' but if you want to gas away constantly why not sit in the standard zone?

How full was the seating overall in the train? Quiet zones only really have a chance when there's sufficient free seats in all the non 1st class coaches

 

[Ianno87]

On the 07:17 from Preston to New St and there hasn't been a moment of silence from them, utterly ridiculous an d disrespectful.

I know its not the 'Silent Zone' but if you want to gas away constantly why not sit in the standard zone?

If it was bothering you so much, why not politely walk over to them and ask them to be a little quieter, rather than just moaning about it on the interweb? Or speak to the Train Manager. They may not have even realised they were in the Quiet Zone.

I try and respect the QZ, but if someone else isn't, life's frankly just too short to let myself get bothered by it.

 

[Flying Snail]

Indeed not, but far more people are using electronic messaging of whatever kind instead of actually speaking to people, and a smartphone's "keyboard" is silent (unless you have the key click on, and even then it's not loud).

My experience of quiet coach "misuse" is more based around the playing out loud of films and TV shows on tablets and phones than on phone calls.

The idea that this crap is acceptable in any part of the train is my main problem with "quiet zones" it gives inconsiderate tossers the idea that if they are not in a designated quiet area they can be as noisy as they like.

Playing music/films is not on anywhere on public transport and I would also put loud lengthy phone conversations in that category.

Quiet coach should be just that, QUIET: no un-necessary noise, including groups talking, kids playing, ANY phone use, leaky headphones, irritating keyboard clicks, etc.

As it is typically only 1 out of 6-8 std class coaches it is far from unreasonable for it to be restricted to those who want to travel in peace.

In my experience the vast majority of passengers on IC routes make little or no noise, it is only a minority on most services (****ed-up late weekends excepted) who are creating most of the disturbances.

I would prefer the default position on IC services to be no loud noises, noise generating electronics or phone converstions and for selected Loud Carriages to be designated for those who do wish to be noisy, perhaps call them "social carriages" or something.

 

[Flying Snail]

Ah, this old chestnut.

Someone has a moan, some people agree, some people don't. Some argue that Quiet Zones should be removed, some don't, and then we invariably get examples of other passengers being selfish.

Virgin Trains removes standard class quiet zone; worst intercity TOC in living memory
Policing the 'quiet coach'
Quiet Zones?
c2c quiet zones - have things improved?
Quiet coach etiquette
Quiet zones on only some South West Trains, trains
Quiet zones
Should the quiet coach be called the silence coach?
Default Quiet coach- what's the point?
Designated quiet coaches

Round and round we go

Perhaps you should lobby the Admins for a "quiet forum".

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Was this a Pendolino service? If so, there's no point in a quiet zone, as there are that many tones and jingles played over the PA system that it feels like you've taken a wrong turn and ended up in a Jean Michel Jarre concert!

 

[Mag_seven]

You know what? When I was younger, I used to wind up about this sort of stuff, but life is too short. The public make a racket, smell and are generally nasty. If you don't like travelling with the public, don't. Buy a chuffing car and enjoy the queue of people with their hands out for your cash. I will take my chances on the train thanks.

Doing that is called "surrender". We are not talking about the public in general - just those who disobey the rules that apply in what is a very small part of the train. Is it really too much to ask that just ONE coach is kept aside for those who wish to sit in peace and quiet and that those who sit in there respect those rules?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

As it is typically only 1 out of 6-8 std class coaches it is far from unreasonable for it to be restricted to those who want to travel in peace.

It's only 1 in 4 on some units. On some units you've also got the first class coach/section to take out, that might leave only 2 non-quiet coaches available to use

 

[All Line Rover]

It's only 1 in 4 on some units. On some units you've also got the first class coach/section to take out, that might leave only 2 non-quiet coaches available to use

I'm not aware of any trains with fewer than five carriages that have a quiet zone, with the exception of South West Trains.

The train the OP was on should have been an 11 car Pendolino.

 

[vikingdriver]

1 n 3 in our 159s. I used to move the perfectly reasonable couple talking at an acceptable volume into First class. Especially when someone has taken their time to march through the train demanding I sort them out.

 

[bramling]

It's only 1 in 4 on some units. On some units you've also got the first class coach/section to take out, that might leave only 2 non-quiet coaches available to use

What a shame that people might have to keep quiet if they end up in the quiet coach. Is it *so* unreasonable to ask some people to keep their gobs zipped for a short time?

 

[BestWestern]

What a shame that people might have to keep quiet if they end up in the quiet coach. Is it *so* unreasonable to ask some people to keep their gobs zipped for a short time?

It is, at best, 'impractical' to incorporate a quiet area into a train with limited capacity. There should, generally, be enough space that people only sit there by choice, not because they can't sit anywhere else. Anything other than a good length (i.e. not a Voyager) intercity train or a long commuter train (i.e. 8/10/12 coaches), is probably not the ideal setting for a quiet coach.

 

[Bookd]

I think that I must have misunderstood the rules about quiet carriages - I understand that mobile phones are banned, as would be extraneous music or other artificial noise, but I did not realise that conversation is also forbidden.
There could be a trappist monk zone for those who cannot tolerate another voice (and if it followed the example of Belgian trappist monasteries it could maybe supply very strong beer as well - that might be why they don't talk much!).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not aware of any trains with fewer than five carriages that have a quiet zone, with the exception of South West Trains.

The train the OP was on should have been an 11 car Pendolino.

On Saturday I took a London Midland 323 for the first time- I was amused to see that the area immediately behind the cab was labelled up as the quiet zone!

 

[bramling]

I think that I must have misunderstood the rules about quiet carriages - I understand that mobile phones are banned, as would be extraneous music or other artificial noise, but I did not realise that conversation is also forbidden.
There could be a trappist monk zone for those who cannot tolerate another voice (and if it followed the example of Belgian trappist monasteries it could maybe supply very strong beer as well - that might be why they don't talk much!).

I think the issue is that whilst *most* people are quite capable of holding a conversation without their voice carrying to the extent that it irritates others, as usual *a minority* of people feel it is quite acceptable to shout their business far and wide. Unfortunately it always seems to be that the people with the most annoying voices and the most inane conversation seem to fit in the latter category.

An eastbound journey on the Newcastle/Carlisle line can be a trying experience on a weekend mid-morning, full of kids on their way to a day at the MetroCentre repetitively shrieking pointless village gossip at each other - X has just got together with Y, X has just got a lovely new pair of shoes, X is shagging Y behind Z's back, X has just fallen out with her parents, X has just been suspended from school for kicking a teacher, X has just left facebook, X posted something abusive on Y's twitter, etc etc etc.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

It is, at best, 'impractical' to incorporate a quiet area into a train with limited capacity. There should, generally, be enough space that people only sit there by choice, not because they can't sit anywhere else. Anything other than a good length (i.e. not a Voyager) intercity train or a long commuter train (i.e. 8/10/12 coaches), is probably not the ideal setting for a quiet coach.

Even when there is plenty of space you still get inconsiderate people.

I got very annoyed once when I travelling one a early morning in the counter commuting direction out of Waterloo towards Reading when there were only a handful of people on the entire train. There was one person who was sat in the quiet coach having a very loud phone conversation that went on and on. After a few minutes I politely asked them to move to the next carriage if they wished to continue their conversation as this was the quiet zone. They informed me that they were on a very important call and I should mind my own business.

It quite a bit of self control not to escalate the situation.

In general though it is often the train announcements that make the most noise.

 

[theageofthetra]

Compare to a packed Japanese commuter train. No one makes a sound. It's the quietest place I've ever been to- compared to China its a massive shock.

 

[J-2739]

Compare to a packed Japanese commuter train. No one makes a sound. It's the quietest place I've ever been to- compared to China its a massive shock.

I've heard that talking on the phone on a train in Japan is extremely rude, and so they don't do that there.

 

[bramling]

Even when there is plenty of space you still get inconsiderate people.

I got very annoyed once when I travelling one a early morning in the counter commuting direction out of Waterloo towards Reading when there were only a handful of people on the entire train. There was one person who was sat in the quiet coach having a very loud phone conversation that went on and on. After a few minutes I politely asked them to move to the next carriage if they wished to continue their conversation as this was the quiet zone. They informed me that they were on a very important call and I should mind my own business.

It quite a bit of self control not to escalate the situation.

Unfortunately this perfectly illustrates the problem with the concept. In theory it's a lovely idea -- until you introduce people who can't (amazingly some grown adults seem incapable of keeping their traps shut for a short time) or won't comply for whatever reason. Now a conflict situation has been introduced, which now introduces the possibility of the service being delayed and/or staff being sucked into the conflict situation. As usual, a good thing spoiled by a minority of people.

The TOCs could do a little better with signage. In my view signage could be a lot more prominent, and along the lines of "if you can't keep to these conditions then sit elsewhere". Okay you're probably never going to get through to the self-important types who evidently feel totally comfortable walking into a silent space and then start making a racket, but it should certainly be possible to deal with people who end up there by genuine mistake.

 

[theageofthetra]

I've heard that talking on the phone on a train in Japan is extremely rude, and so they don't do that there.

It is as is even sneezing in public. Very civilised place.

 

[All Line Rover]

On Saturday I took a London Midland 323 for the first time- I was amused to see that the area immediately behind the cab was labelled up as the quiet zone!

London Midland has quiet zones? That's news to me.

 

[AlterEgo]

London Midland has quiet zones? That's news to me.

They have done for years, never enforced, with a tiny, almost invisible sign on the 323s.

 

[Llanigraham]

Doing that is called "surrender". We are not talking about the public in general - just those who disobey the rules that apply in what is a very small part of the train. Is it really too much to ask that just ONE coach is kept aside for those who wish to sit in peace and quiet and that those who sit in there respect those rules?

What "rule"? I have never seen a rule that states there has to be total silence in the "Quiet" carriage. If you want that I suggest you travel by car.

 

[tsr]

I'm not aware of any trains with fewer than five carriages that have a quiet zone, with the exception of South West Trains.

Chiltern have (or at least recently did have - haven't been on one of their suburban services for a while) a quiet zone at one end of a coach of some of their Turbos.

 

[shredder1]

I object to loud music being played in quiet zones unless its Led Zeppelin on 11.