May 17 timetable changes

[43074]

There must be more to it than that. Who owns these HSTs? The first one was transferred to East Coast years and years ago. It's an extension of this process that there are three now rather than one, and I personally would be asking serious questions about why, but still. I really hope EMT can find something else to boost capacity to and from Skegness. However I would make the point that before last year it might have been difficult to predict the rise of a place like Skegness in terms of rail travel. It's also very seasonal and seems only to affect Friday, Saturday, Sunday flows. By contrast traffic between Leeds and London is regular, growing steadily and is a heavy flow every day of the week, all year round.

We can hope that by next summer there will be plenty of HST availability as a result of new stock at east coast... hopefully...

It isn't a permanent transfer unlike the other two (sets EC64 & NL65), and EMT HST availability on Saturdays is much lower than on any other day of the week - there are only 6* diagrams on MML services and 3 spare on Neville Hill. Even with an extra set on hire to VTEC, they should still be able to allocate an HST to Skegness services in the same way as last year, if not further: if diagram NL088* worked its ECS from Neville Hill - Nottingham earlier in the day it should be able to work an extra service each way to Skegness before forming its booked London services (the 16:30 Nottingham to London and 19:15 London to Nottingham, then empty to Etches Park).

* Diagrams from last summer in the link below, they're broadly the same now except there's no Skegness diagram at the moment.
http://www.125group.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/HST-Diags-EMT.pdf

 

[Blindtraveler]

In the meantime who is the main bus opperater round there? If stagecoach then Id wager theres plenty of old B7 coaches and X Megabus Panthers kicking around for a summer express to and from Skegness so that might be an option as a bundled rail and coach transfer package?

 

[bunnahabhain]

It isn't a permanent transfer unlike the other two (sets EC64 & NL65), and EMT HST availability on Saturdays is much lower than on any other day of the week - there are only 6* diagrams on MML services and 3 spare on Neville Hill. Even with an extra set on hire to VTEC, they should still be able to allocate an HST to Skegness services in the same way as last year, if not further: if diagram NL088* worked its ECS from Neville Hill - Nottingham earlier in the day it should be able to work an extra service each way to Skegness before forming its booked London services (the 16:30 Nottingham to London and 19:15 London to Nottingham, then empty to Etches Park).

* Diagrams from last summer in the link below, they're broadly the same now except there's no Skegness diagram at the moment.
http://www.125group.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/HST-Diags-EMT.pdf

The second diagram couldn't be guaranteed so won't be going ahead.

 

[Starmill]

I would guess that the majority of people going to holiday parks in Skegness already have the option of booking dedicated coaches to and from them? Or not?

 

[Class 170101]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C80618/2017/07/22/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C80619/2017/07/22/advanced

The morning ones are in.

If the later HST working from Skegness was needed might it be possible to cover 14:32 Nottingham to St Pancras and the 17:15 St Pancras to Nottingham with Class 222 instead?

I guess there must be some spare Class 222s at weekends otherwise they wouldn't be able to go to Liverpool for the Grand National at Aintree?

 

[Bungle965]

I would guess that the majority of people going to holiday parks in Skegness already have the option of booking dedicated coaches to and from them? Or not?

National Express often do well in the summer transporting people to Skegness, more often that not they run duplicates to meet the demand.
Sam

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Years ago local operators all had scheduled coach services from Nottinghamshire to East Coast Resorts, many daily and some all year. None now exist.
Just had a quick look at Day Trips with a Nottingham major Coach Operator. Their next day trip to Skegness is on May 31st (a month away) and there are 7 further day trips over the Summer. They leave from Derby at 8.30, Nottingham 9.10, Arnold 9.30, Mansfield 10.00 to Skegness (arriving 1200 at a guess) and allows 4-5 hours at the resort. £18 return- adult & child(over 2 years) same price!

National Express 10.05 Nottingham, 12.20 Skegness. 14.05 Skegness, 16.25 Nottingham. £23.50 return. Again selected days only and not much use for a day trip!

You can now see why the only option these days really is to let the train take the strain...

Probably return train to Lincoln and Stagecoach 6 bus from Lincoln to Skegness would be an alternative 'less busy' routing.

 

[43096]

It isn't a permanent transfer unlike the other two (sets EC64 & NL65), and EMT HST availability on Saturdays is much lower than on any other day of the week - there are only 6* diagrams on MML services and 3 spare on Neville Hill. Even with an extra set on hire to VTEC, they should still be able to allocate an HST to Skegness services in the same way as last year, if not further: if diagram NL088* worked its ECS from Neville Hill - Nottingham earlier in the day it should be able to work an extra service each way to Skegness before forming its booked London services (the 16:30 Nottingham to London and 19:15 London to Nottingham, then empty to Etches Park).



* Diagrams from last summer in the link below, they're broadly the same now except there's no Skegness diagram at the moment.

http://www.125group.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/HST-Diags-EMT.pdf

I'm told there is no extra EMT HST hire to VTEC on a Saturday in the new timetable. The extra Leeds trains are apparently resourced from the Mark 4 fleet.

As for EMT itself, there are 8 sets available for use, the 9th is on maintenance. There's also no reason they can't run the Saturday Nottingham service with 5 sets. I don't understand why they have the swap-out turn, other than "it's always been like that".

 

[louis97]

I don't understand why they have the swap-out turn, other than "it's always been like that".

The swap happens ultimately because an extra set is needed in Etches Park for Sunday start up.

The swap out set used to work the 0927 Sheffield to London and 1155 London to Sheffield, then work to Nottingham before the 125mph timetable change. It now comes direct from Neville Hill, with the Sheffield service a 7 car 222. No reason to change what it worked after the Sheffield.

Of course this set could work a Skegness service, and still finish at Etches Park. However it isn't as black and white as that, with lots of other things to be taken into account.

 

[mikestone1952]

I'm told there is no extra EMT HST hire to VTEC on a Saturday in the new timetable. The extra Leeds trains are apparently resourced from the Mark 4 fleet.

As for EMT itself, there are 8 sets available for use, the 9th is on maintenance. There's also no reason they can't run the Saturday Nottingham service with 5 sets. I don't understand why they have the swap-out turn, other than "it's always been like that".

I was just going to ask why they should need to hire a set, since the Newark and York semi-fasts don't run on Saturdays, and the M-F 08.30 and 12.30 KGX-NCL running to EDB on Saturdays ought only to add one set to the requirement elsewhere.
;

 

[JonathanH]

Axing of Southern services overnight after the 0005 from Victoria to Worthing and Eastbourne to improve daytime reliability. Use Thameslink instead.
http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/plan-your-journey/timetable-changes-may-2017

 

[Techniquest]

You had me quite concerned there, as I occasionally have cause to use Southern's overnight trains in the early hours of Sunday. I see they are not affected, which you had to read the link to find out.

You also had to read it to find out Thameslink are still running overnight each night, with them making additional stops and extending services to cover for Southern.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Timetables now on line. Still problems with Fishguard trains on Sundays, Timetable shows 1240 Fishguard Hbr to Cardiff, fair enough, but showing Cancelled in systems each week (RTT) so Journey Planner fails to provide details.

 

[berneyarms]

ATW, Southern and Thameslink timetable pdfs were published yesterday.

Currently available are:

Arriva Trains Wales
c2c
Chiltern
CrossCountry
East Midland Trains
Great Northern
Greater Anglia
GWR
London Midland
Northern
Scotrail
Southern
South West Trains
TfL Rail
Thameslink
Transpennine Express
Virgin Trains
Virgin Trains East Coast

Of the main TOCs, still to come are:

London Overground
Merseyrail
Southeastern
Network Rail eNRT & working timetables

 

[berneyarms]

ATW Timetables now on line. Still problems with Fishguard trains on Sundays, Timetable shows 1240 Fishguard Hbr to Cardiff, fair enough, but showing Cancelled in systems each week (RTT) so Journey Planner fails to provide details.

They are aware of that and are trying to fix it, along with deleting all of the ad hoc services still in the system on Sundays.

 

[Southern Dvr]

You had me quite concerned there, as I occasionally have cause to use Southern's overnight trains in the early hours of Sunday. I see they are not affected, which you had to read the link to find out.

You also had to read it to find out Thameslink are still running overnight each night, with them making additional stops and extending services to cover for Southern.

However the 0016 & 0042 all shacks down from Victoria to Croydon are not covered by anything else, so therefore these will be a loss to those who use them of a early morning.

 

[berneyarms]

And the Southern pdf (C27) seems to have got this all wrong.

The 00:16 and 00:42 are shown as operating on Sunday nights (Monday morning), which they don't.

And the 00:42 is shown as operating on Monday-Friday nights when it only operates on Friday nights (Saturday morning).

 

[Polarbear]

Does anyone know when the e-timetable from Network Rail is likely to become available for download? The NR website is still only showing the current timetable to 20 May.

It's been issued a bit close to the wire over the last few years, so I expect it'll be available fairly soon.

 

[tsr]

That 0042 Victoria-East Croydon isn't badly used, either - any day of the week. The only time I've known it to be empty is when it's been delayed and the 0100 from Victoria has run ahead and taken the Clapham Junction, Selhurst and East Croydon passengers.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It may have already been asked on this thread but is there a general "summary of changes" document per TOC, so you can see what's chaning from the current timetable rather than having to look at each line individually?

 

[berneyarms]

Does anyone know when the e-timetable from Network Rail is likely to become available for download? The NR website is still only showing the current timetable to 20 May.

It's been issued a bit close to the wire over the last few years, so I expect it'll be available fairly soon.

No confirmed date - it's a question of checking the website, which is what I've been doing for all of the timetables each working day.

When it's published I will update this thread.

 

[berneyarms]

It may have already been asked on this thread but is there a general "summary of changes" document per TOC, so you can see what's chaning from the current timetable rather than having to look at each line individually?

Some TOCs have prepared a summary - you'll need to check each individual TOC website - maybe look in the PR/News sections.

 

[PHILIPE]

They are aware of that and are trying to fix it, along with deleting all of the ad hoc services still in the system on Sundays.

Could be partly Network Rail to blame, especially in the case of late alterations such as those concerning Fishguard, because they could have to validate any timings. Although with the Sunday Boat train all that is required here is for the cancellation aspect to be removed.

 

[berneyarms]

Could be partly Network Rail to blame, especially in the case of late alterations such as those concerning Fishguard, because they could have to validate any timings. Although with the Sunday Boat train all that is required here is for the cancellation aspect to be removed.

Re the bit in bold - that was the reply I got from ATW.

I did let them know about the missing boat train - maybe you could give them a prod tomorrow!

 

[PHILIPE]

Re the bit in bold - that was the reply I got from ATW.

I did let them know about the missing boat train - maybe you could give them a prod tomorrow!

I Tweeted ATW this morning and had an almost immediate reply re the Sunday Fishguard and the late connection from Machynlleth to Pwllheli and replied that it was a known issue and that they were currently in discussions with Network Rail re sorting out the problem.
I also tweeted them on Tuesday pointing out they were one of only 3 TOCs not yet to have published the Timetables. After some chasing up and asking why tweet not acknowledged a reply was received "during the next few days". As it happened they appeared a short time afterwards. I may not be too popular with ATW Tweeters as I keep pestering as to why they mostly ignore the Short Formed Box on Journey Check, although there were 4 Ebbw Vales short posted yesterday but all the same missing unit.

 

[Polarbear]

No confirmed date - it's a question of checking the website, which is what I've been doing for all of the timetables each working day.

When it's published I will update this thread.

Thanks - much appreciated!

 

[david737]

SET have put up their May timetables although its not obvious, go to the timetables section click on the relevant link for each booklet & you will find links to the current & new timetable PDF's.

 

[berneyarms]

Merseyrail, Southeastern and Gatwick Express have now published timetable pdfs

Currently available are:

Arriva Trains Wales
c2c
Chiltern
CrossCountry
East Midland Trains
Gatwick Express
Great Northern
Greater Anglia
GWR
London Midland
Merseyrail
Northern
Scotrail
Southern
South West Trains
TfL Rail
Thameslink
Transpennine Express
Virgin Trains
Virgin Trains East Coast


Still outstanding are:

London Overground
Network Rail eNRT & working timetables

 

[PHILIPE]

The plan for the Timetable at night is:-

1V48 1530 Manchester Picc to Carmarthen extended Fishguard
2E35 2214 Fishguard Harbour to Carmarthen (no forward connections)
2E52 2345 Swansea to Carmarthen
1B39 0303 Carmarthen to Swansea (Current 0150 Fishguard Harbour path)

There are quite a few Engineering Occupations which would explain the STP working.

The final Timetable reveals that 1V48 not now going through to Fishguard Harbour but there will be a 2103 Carmarthen starter in lieu.

 

[berneyarms]

The final Timetable reveals that 1V48 not now going through to Fishguard Harbour but there will be a 2103 Carmarthen starter in lieu.

I still believe it's a very poor show to terminate the connection from Fishguard off the evening sailing from Rosslare at Carmarthen.

At the very least it should be going to Swansea, and ideally Cardiff.