Theresa May calls General Election on 8th June.

[Butts]

Well now the three main parties have released their Manifestos are the Conservatives still heading for victory ?

I fear in Wales Llafur Cymru will give Plaid Geidwadol Cymru a bloody nose but we should increase our representation.

Plaid Cymru and the others will be also rans

Did anyone even realise there was an ITV Wales 2 Hour Election Debate last night ?

No mention of it on here !!!

 

[47802]

Well there is the ITV Leaders tonight, except May and Corbyn aren't there so its a debate between the parties of no consequence unless your Scottish.

Having decided who i'm voting for I wont be watching any of this kind of stuff now

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed, and I don't know about you but she delivered ours herself.

I think it was just put in the letterbox by one of her campaign volunteers. Certainly we've not had anyone (for any party for that matter) on the door step that I'm aware of!

 

[Butts]

Well there is the ITV Leaders tonight, except May and Corbyn aren't there so its a debate between the parties of no consequence unless your Scottish.

Having decided who i'm voting for I wont be watching any of this kind of stuff now

And why no one from Northern Ireland ?

 

[AlterEgo]

And why no one from Northern Ireland ?

None of the main NI parties actually care about anything that happens outside of NI/the island of Ireland (delete as appropriate), and likewise the audience doesn't really care about NI issues either. NI politics is deeply parochial and on a structural level functions in much the same way as a small third world country beset by recent sectarian conflict. I expect they weren't invited.

But of course, Northern Ireland is an INTEGRAL part of our UNITED Kingdom.

One day Unionists in Ireland will get the message that nobody here cares much about them, but it won't be today.

 

[Busaholic]

None of the main NI parties actually care about anything that happens outside of NI/the island of Ireland (delete as appropriate), and likewise the audience doesn't really care about NI issues either. NI politics is deeply parochial and on a structural level functions in much the same way as a small third world country beset by recent sectarian conflict. I expect they weren't invited.

But of course, Northern Ireland is an INTEGRAL part of our UNITED Kingdom.

One day Unionists in Ireland will get the message that nobody here cares much about them, but it won't be today.

Agree with every word.

 

[muddythefish]

Massive own goal by the Tories today with their "dementia tax". May has at one stroke alienated her right wing press and her own right wing and given Labour a large amount of ammunition. Dilnot is rubbishing their long term care plans which really are ill thought out rubbish.

 

[fowler9]

Massive own goal by the Tories today with their "dementia tax". May has at one stroke alienated her right wing press and her own right wing and given Labour a large amount of ammunition. Dilnot is rubbishing their long term care plans which really are ill thought out rubbish.

I fear that a large percentage of the country aren't that politically engaged and will just believe what the Daily Mail prints. Their headline today was something along the lines of at last the country has a politician that is honest referring to Theresa May which I personally found laughable.

 

[bramling]

Massive own goal by the Tories today with their "dementia tax". May has at one stroke alienated her right wing press and her own right wing and given Labour a large amount of ammunition. Dilnot is rubbishing their long term care plans which really are ill thought out rubbish.

I can't see it being a popular move, the way I see it being received is as follows: once again older generations won't be affected as they will get the care one way or the other, however inherited assets passed down to offspring would be one way of helping younger people get on the housing ladder or be able to afford a property more along the lines of what their parents have.

Having said that, I suspect many younger people are increasingly fed up with subsidising services which probably won't be available in their current form by the time they reach retirement age. There's no easy win unfortunately.

 

[Howardh]

Massive own goal by the Tories today with their "dementia tax". May has at one stroke alienated her right wing press and her own right wing and given Labour a large amount of ammunition. Dilnot is rubbishing their long term care plans which really are ill thought out rubbish.

With his death tax - stealing your house from under you, not only will it upset current elderly/carers, but will affect the future plans of today's middle age.

This is the situation now;
Elderly lives at home.
Son or daughter, currently renting; agree to move back and care for elderly until either death or specialist nursing home becomes inevitable.
So carer is left homeless (and jobless, penniless) when, after death, the Tories come round to take the house away that the carer expected to inherit to pay the extra bills - not even taking to account that the carer has saved the public purse £10'000's by doing the NHS's job in the first place.

End result - people won't care....so the elderly will have to be looked at in nursing homes...meaning a greater stretch on resources...meaning more and more staff will be required.

I'm just hoping at this end my elders have enough in the bank to pay for any extra care they need, and the house won't be affected. But the fact that 10 years down the line I could be 68, on two pensions but homeless.

Thanks, Theresa, you're a woman of God, let's hope he looks after you....

 

[AM9]

I can't see it being a popular move, the way I see it being received is as follows: once again older generations won't be affected as they will get the care one way or the other, however inherited assets passed down to offspring would be one way of helping younger people get on the housing ladder or be able to afford a property more along the lines of what their parents have.

Having said that, I suspect many younger people are increasingly fed up with subsidising services which probably won't be available in their current form by the time they reach retirement age. There's no easy win unfortunately.

The proposed £100k floor ensures that the wealthy's children's inheritance comes from their own parents' estate, - not from everybody else's children, (including those unlikely to get any inheritance of their own) by virtue of them having to subsidise the wealthy elderley's care.

 

[Howardh]

I do have a solution.

If, when reaching 60, and before 67, a person has large assets - a home and savings valued at over £800k*, they then have the opportunity to do either
(a) continue as it is now and risk losing their home which they can't guarantee to pass on if they need expensive end-life care
or
(b) pay 10% of those assets** (so £80k if your assets are £800k*) into an insurance fund owned by the state. If you then need care, it's paid for***, done, and your relatives looking after you needn't worry. Of course anyone dying early, or living long and healthily, doesn't get the benefit from that insurance - in which case the money goes to the state to pay for the care of others.

*That figure would need a starting point, say £500k?
**Between 60 and 66, many obtaining a pension get a lump sum which could go to, or indeed cover, that cost
***The money could be given over the course of 6 years, maybe even encourage downsizing to free up cash to pay and also make larger property available for young families

The argument is, of course, where do you start, and would those below the assets threshold get free care? Naturally those above may well spend quickly to get below thresholds, but that can happen today to get to below £23k....however to do so deliberately risks being an offence.

 

[Howardh]

The proposed £100k floor ensures that the wealthy's children's inheritance comes from their own parents' estate, - not from everybody else's children, (including those unlikely to get any inheritance of their own) by virtue of them having to subsidise the wealthy elderley's care.

Should children who have sacrificed their own jobs, wealth and lifestyle to care for their elders be treated exactly the same as those who go nowhere near their parents, live an almost separate life and can keep earning whilst the carer dips into their own savings to fund what little time off they get? Carer's allowance, whilst universal, is only £62.70/wk.

 

[radamfi]

The Conservative manifesto says they will convert mayoral and other elections to First Past the Post.

 

[me123]

The Conservative manifesto says they will convert mayoral and other elections to First Past the Post.

Ludicrous. FPTP is an abhorrent voting system.

 

[southern442]

The Conservative manifesto says they will convert mayoral and other elections to First Past the Post.

That's borderline undemocratic. Also very hypocritical considering the Tories elect their leaders based on a ranking system, not first past the post. If they had first past the post, David Davis would have become Tory leader instead of David Cameron. Anything to keep the right people in power. Very very disappointing.

 

[47802]

Ludicrous. FPTP is an abhorrent voting system.

Just a different way of voting, yes you can argue that in terms of government if want to take account of the way people vote as a whole its not the best system, but to call it abhorrent or borderline undemocratic is utter rubbish in my view.

 

[Butts]

Just a different way of voting, yes you can argue that in terms of government if want to take account of the way people vote as a whole its not the best system, but to call it abhorrent or borderline undemocratic is utter rubbish in my view.

Some people seem to have a short memory - 2011 referendum on the voting system overwhelmingly decided (by recent standards) to retain FPTP

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That's borderline undemocratic. Also very hypocritical considering the Tories elect their leaders based on a ranking system, not first past the post. If they had first past the post, David Davis would have become Tory leader instead of David Cameron. Anything to keep the right people in power. Very very disappointing.

Totally agree. It's an appalling move. Offhand I can't think of any valid democratic reason to make that change: The current system for mayoral elections works well, and has the huge advantage that people are able to vote for the party they really want to vote for, safe in the knowledge that that vote won't be wasted. Returning to first past the post will - in most places that have mayoral elections, mean that many supporters of smaller parties will feel obliged to vote for whoever they consider least bad of Labour and the Conservatives.

In the absence of any real justification for making this change, I can only assume that the Conservatives' motive is to try to force a return to two-party politics, squeezing out minor parties, presumably on the assumption that if people are forced to choose between Labour and the Conservatives, that will virtually guarantee Conservative hegemony for the foreseeable future. Needless to say, that doesn't say much for the Conservatives' respect for the electorate or their belief in democracy

How ironic that this proposal is embedded in a manifesto section that starts by saying

We will continue to modernise and improve our electoral registration process, making it as accessible as possible so that every voice counts.

(The paragraph then continues with a whole bunch of proposals, almost every one of which is likely to do the very opposite of what that preamble says!)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Some people seem to have a short memory - 2011 referendum on the voting system overwhelmingly decided (by recent standards) to retain FPTP

For Parliamentary elections, not for Mayoral elections, which is where the Conservatives are seeking to change it.

 

[HSTEd]

It's like Theresa May is attempting to drink all the poison chalices at once.

And in what way could there possibly be the parliamentary time for all this stuff?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That's borderline undemocratic. Also very hypocritical considering the Tories elect their leaders based on a ranking system, not first past the post. If they had first past the post, David Davis would have become Tory leader instead of David Cameron. Anything to keep the right people in power. Very very disappointing.

Are you comparing two different scenarios of a mayoral election and a political party leadership election with the electorate as such only taking part in one of these?

 

[EM2]

Some people seem to have a short memory - 2011 referendum on the voting system overwhelmingly decided (by recent standards) to retain FPTP

Because the Alternative Vote isn't a lot better.

 

[Barn]

Because the Alternative Vote isn't a lot better.

This is often raised as a rebuttal, but I just can't see many anti-FPTP or pro-PR people saying no to AV because it was a bit more proportional but not proportional enough. Surely you would have voted yes to AV and then used the more proportional government to push for further reform. The only conclusion I can reach is that the majority of people really were happy with FPTP.

 

[Dave1987]

Just a different way of voting, yes you can argue that in terms of government if want to take account of the way people vote as a whole its not the best system, but to call it abhorrent or borderline undemocratic is utter rubbish in my view.

Lots of people don't even bother voting because they believe it won't make a difference. In this election if everyone who doesn't support the Tories voted tactically and clubbed their votes together with the main opposition candidate in their constituency then the Tories would lose huge numbers of seats. In a PR voting system the Tories would lose huge amounts of seats which is why they oppose PR. I don't see how it is democratic how a party can claim victory and form a government when only a fraction of the entire population voted for them and then that party tell trade unions they have to have minimum turnouts for any ballot. Utter utter hypocrisy! I'm hoping that there is a lot of tactical voting in this election, to keep May out of No10!

 

[AlterEgo]

The Conservative manifesto says they will convert mayoral and other elections to First Past the Post.

Which other elections?

 

[Howardh]

It's like Theresa May is attempting to drink all the poison chalices at once.

And in what way could there possibly be the parliamentary time for all this stuff?

She's taking her lead from Paul Nuttall who, in the course of 12 months, managed to be the first Briton on the Moon, became the first to swim the Atlantic and found the cure for cancer.

It's all on his facebook page....

All May has to do - and she's got 18 months to do it...is leave the EU, wreck the economy, have all the elderly thrown into homes because carers could be stranded homeless and make sure everyone leaving and entering fills in Visa forms in triplicate for £150 a throw.

She might even find time to manage Arsenal to the Premier League title.

 

[Darandio]

All May has to do - and she's got 18 months to do it...is leave the EU, wreck the economy, have all the elderly thrown into homes because carers could be stranded homeless and make sure everyone leaving and entering fills in Visa forms in triplicate for £150 a throw.

All entirely possible......

She might even find time to manage Arsenal to the Premier League title.

Completely unrealistic......

 

[47802]

Lots of people don't even bother voting because they believe it won't make a difference. In this election if everyone who doesn't support the Tories voted tactically and clubbed their votes together with the main opposition candidate in their constituency then the Tories would lose huge numbers of seats. In a PR voting system the Tories would lose huge amounts of seats which is why they oppose PR. I don't see how it is democratic how a party can claim victory and form a government when only a fraction of the entire population voted for them and then that party tell trade unions they have to have minimum turnouts for any ballot. Utter utter hypocrisy! I'm hoping that there is a lot of tactical voting in this election, to keep May out of No10!

Well I'm tactically voting Conservative to keep Labour out, and I personally would prefer some form of Proportional representation system, but as has been previously commented the option to change to AV was massively rejected and given the way the Lib Dems were hammered for being part of the Coalition at the last election a lot people don't seem to want coalition Governments which is what a proportional representation system would bring.

 

[Dave1987]

All entirely possible......



Completely unrealistic......

Miracles do happen